Zenister

the senior leadership did... senior leadership that was quickly replaced.... hmmmm ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

I wasn't selling a war, but I am very much sold on it, even today. The fact is this had a lot of public support, the notion that a few individuals "sold" us all the war while false does get back to your central beef here and betrays your real motivation here, you just couldn't help letting it slip out. This is not about armor upgrades or any other specious nonsense, it's about the fact that Rumsfeld was running the Pentagon when America went to war, a war that you oppose. Many of the same people you want to laud were issuing dire warnings about troop strengths in the Afghanistan campaign and warning of a quagmire and they were dead wrong. You're not baying for their blood or commending Rumsfeld because he was right. Nor did your visionaries warn of a lack of force protection gear pre Iraq. It's still not even clear than greater troop strengths wouldn't just present more targets of opportunity to an elusive enemy as we work to win this war so the underlying case has not been made convincingly. Rumsfeild 'sold' the war... pretending it was part of the "war on terror' and that it would be the cake walk they claimed... the MILITARY was right.. the CIVILIANS didnt listen...and continued to ignored them until the PRESS made it an issue for the PUBLIC.... now they (the civilians) are trying to back track and pretend they have paid attention all along...that they have done everything they could have when in fact that is clearly not the case to anyone that has been involved and paying attention since the start.... I have... it is part of my job.... you apparently have not... nonsense?? nonsense?!? how about you put your ass on the line before you call basic force protection means and measures that should have been taken BEFORE invasion 'nonsense' ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

actually many of us did... we were and are told to 'shut up and color' its about the fact that a man with NO MILITARY experience did not listen to the MILITARY EXPERTS, and in fact derided and scorned them because they didnt "shut up and color" ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/attack/consequences/2003/0228pentagoncontra.htm the witch should have been thrown out long ago... our soldiers are paying in blood for his arrogance and ignorance... here is someone with a great deal more direct knowledge than the op-ed you posted who questions Rumsfield as well (check the dates) Strangely enough he cites Lewis Carrol as well.... http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/editorial/6769302.htm?1c ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

how about the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs? how about the Sec of the Army?? i guess those opinions dont matter when it interfered with the war you were trying to sell... if you havent already.. go back and read the entire first link i posted... then go find Shinseki's original testemony and look to see what Rumsfield said at the time..... Shinseki has since been prove 100% correct.... http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/25/international/middleeast/25CND-MILI.html?ex=1103864400&en=f879a280598c307e&ei=5070&oref=login login dropzone pw dropzone ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

i so i guess ignoring and undermining the now painfully proven accurate assesments and evaluations by senior military officials (who unlike him have no 'political horse' in the race) in favor of an ignorant civilian's judgment (his own) is a good thing?? much like Bush he only hears what fits inline with his preconceptions... he has been incompetent from the beginning... it just taken the needlessly expended lives of our soldiers to get the point across.....and he still wont acknowledge his mistakes. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

boot in safe mode then delete ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

actually all of those are easily explained by simple collusion on the part of the original authors...everything after comes from believers to believers.... if you control the means (and priests encompassed nearly all the literati) there are no sources to contradict your claims... particularly when you hold council to make sure everything 'lines up' here is a simple question for you... do you believe that the words in red in some versions are written 'as spoken' then translated by an actual person? why? what evidence do you have to back that belief? what makes you believe that that level of detail was recalled and recorded decades after those words were supposedly spoken?? blind faith? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

as has been pointed out... it is VERY hard to stop someone who is willing to die to kill you as well.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

i prefer honesty in all thing... lies and two faced bullshit pisses me off like nothing else.. however there is a difference between 'telling the truth' and being 'brutally honest'. There are very few places were 'brutally honest' is nessesary, or even wanted.. for example 90% of the time when some one asks you "hey how are you doing?" they are not really asking 'how you are' (or even care in many cases) it is simply a standard social nicety... if you start talking about your painful cankersores and petty office bullshit their eyes will glaze over in an instant... hmm check into Douglas Adams for what happens next...... the bit about the frogs will really get to you... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

ok ok, well i guess that kind of counts.......a fast backslide........knee's tucked on their ass and hand out........ok. actually Andy doesnt tuck his knees... i cant recall exactly how TJ was doing it..but Andy looked very much like a 'traditional' tracking shape.. just with his feet forward and arms extended...... after the first few times i saw it i 'learned' to ignore the man in red... he isnt obeying the same laws of physics as the rest of us... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

because claiming to have 'invented' a 'completely new way to fly' is just silly... Atmonauti formalizes an angle of attack for the entire dive however that doesnt make it 'completely different' from a steep track or a shallow HD flock... and it probably donest need a 'new cool term' to create yet another division... eventually we'll run out of corners in the hanger to segregate 'all new disciplines' ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

you are pretty much correct.. a quote comes to mind "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" there have been instances where christianity became the focus of censor, but the majority of them were brought about by their insistence that everyone follow THEIR rules and traditions in the first place pretending persecution is simply a way to pull 'the faithful' together against all the 'evil' in the world as their religion and beliefs are increasiningly marginalized... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

Correct. But show me one that has been intentionally altered with the intent to deceive. no way to know... its not like there are ANY original texts for comparison... you have to accept 'on faith' that what you are reading is 'as written'... or even that it was written by the people it claims, much less that what it claims to recount actually occured in any way shape or form as described... there is an awful lot of faith there... of course you could believe in Santa on the same basis of faith.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

yup... i've seen both Andy and TJ flip 180 in the middle of a tracking dive and easily keep up... granted its not a max track, but what tracking dive ever is really?? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

I'm not a military strategist. Still, I've seen no consensus on how many it should have taken. there is this man named Shinseki... perhaps you've heard of him? perhaps you've also heard what the arrogant civilian twit and his staff said about his estimates and evaluations BEFORE the invasion?? maybe you should go look... start this one.. but oh yea... Rumsfeld knows what he's talking about..... you may trust your military leadership... but the civilians that are giving them their marching orders need a reality check... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

fuck..... just fuck..... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

note to all the peeps driving in, down from sky harbor etc... the AZ highway patrol is OUT IN FORCE i saw no less than 4 stops and found 5 sites running radar on my drive back tonight.... Eloy isnt going anywhere... slow down (i cant believe i'm saying that yeesh) and save your money for more jump tickets instead of funding the state.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

it was Yule long before the world started the christ silliness... wouldnt even be this time of year except they wanted to convert the heathen hordes and its easier to adopt someone elses celebrations and make them your own..... the primary purpose in organized religion is control... and mostly political control... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

no idea yet.... other than playing in Eloy throughout the holiday... early next year i'll sit down and decide if i should spend some cash on a BASE canopy or a laptop.. or maybe both if i wanna be poor for a while...

pain in general sucks... here i am off work with a frikken migrane... two days now... simply lovely... of course i've got good drugs that take away the pain, but they also take away the ability to do much more than sit at home and read/play on the internet... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

snowboards rock... but then i did try skiing again last year when i didnt bring any gear north with me (didnt plan on staying so....) of course i was smart enough to pay for a lesson since i hadnt stood on skis since i was 9... and had an absolute blast... even if i did by a few pitchers in the lodge for a few 'lawn sale' stops at the base.... of course your balance point and habits are completely different.. i must have lost a ski 4 times on the lifts when i forgot i needed to pick BOTH feet up.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

yeah, picking up a bunch of hotties in phoenix indeed, but that is AFTER the jumping.. damn and i didnt even ask Santa for that kinda cool gift... guess i did something good this year... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

Both Eglin AFB and Weisbaden AAF used to actually 'scramble' fighters to intercept the 'boogie', they then had (sometimes live sometimes not) radio chatter between the pilots as they IDed and then escorted Santa into safe airspace... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

is there anything better to be doing than jumping on Xmas day?? i love Eloy... heading that way in a few ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.