Robert99

It appears that Carr was posting on some other site and not this one. Whose site is the D.B. Cooper: Mystery Group? Ulis? I don't believe that I have ever heard of it, but I am not on Facebook or other such social media sites. OleMiss, if you or anyone else on DZ are in contact with Carr I would like to ask him a several simple questions if someone can pass them to him. 1. Have you (Carr) ever seen a copy of the Seattle ATC radio transcripts that didn't have numerous dash lines (like - - - - - -) in it? 2. Why does the FAA refer all FOIA requests for copies of the Seattle ATC radio transcripts to the FBI? It should be noted that a version of the Seattle ATC radio transcripts has already been publicly released as well as a complete version of the Oakland ATC radio transcripts. 3. Why does the FBI FOIA office change names of the requesters to prevent them from appealing to the DOJ? I have had federal licenses since the age of 16, served in the military, and worked for and retired from DOD and they never got my name wrong, but the FBI FOIA office did, and it was deliberate. 4. My congressman (and later Senator) worked through the FBI's Congressional Liaison Office to submit an FOIA request to the FAA which resulted in a referral back to the FBI and an FOIA request to the FBI which resulted in a couple of pages. If the version of the Seattle ATC radio transcripts that has been publicly released is the correct one, what prevents the FAA/FBI from saying so?

Yes, I am well. I wasn't aware of any discussion related to me on this thread last December. Some day if I don't have anything better to do, I'll see if I can find it. But I don't have time to do it now. Chaucer, how is your health? Are you still claiming to be an "expert" on the Zodiac? If so, have you been able to figure out what actually constitutes the Zodiac ciphers? If you are going to solve them, you have to figure out what the ciphers are. At least that seems logical to me, but you may not operate that way.

Georger, you have really got your "facts" wrong. Just about my first post on this site related to problems with the so-called FBI Flight Path. I joined this site in March 2009 but didn't start posting here until I had obtained some related data from the National Archives on the hijacking. I also started another thread about the Cooper hijacking on this site but after discovering that everything about the hijacking was supposed to be on the present thread, I informed Quade about it and he locked it. However, Meso apparently merged the locked thread with this one when he reactivated this one. So, there may be some confusion about post numbers. I had never heard of this site until Sluggo (Wayne Walker) referred me to it and told me how to find it. Sluggo never said a word to me at any time about the Western Flight Path being wrong nor did he make any critical comment about it to me. Your claim that Carr posted criticisms here about the Western Flight Path is apparently just more of your nonsense. I don't remember seeing a single post by Carr on the present thread. By that I mean that while Carr apparently posted on the thread that was locked by Quade in 2008, he has not to my knowledge posted on this thread since then during Quade's or Meso's time as running it. Georger's other comments are just more ducking and weaving.

I have looked at the roll in the Harrison papers. Are you claiming there is a difference in the roll you saw and the Harrison roll?

This original printout that you say you saw, was it still on a roll of paper or was it simply Xerox copies of the original printout?

You seem to have an attitude problem. How many ham sandwiches have you indicted as a prosecutor?

I have done exactly that repeatedly over the last years. It is obvious that you haven't read any posts related to the Western Flight Path or my experiences with FAA and FBI FOIA requests.

So Major Larson didn't have anything to do with calculating the flight path. This means that we are back to trying to determine where the so-called FBI Flight Path came from. And to their credit in my opinion, the FBI apparently didn't have anything to do with calculating that flight path.

You seem to have missed the point that the FBI is sitting on the "compelling evidence".

If any progress is to be made in this hijacking, the actual flight path must be determined. The evidence for the Western Flight Path has been discussed at length over the last 14 years. All you need to do is read the posts.

As Chaucer should be aware of if he has done any meaningful research on the matter, what is now known as the Western Flight Path has been discussed at length on this site and Shutter's site for the last 14 years. It is highly unlikely that Chaucer has held the "original [ARINC] teletype printout" in his hands. There are only a very limited number of "original" copies of that printout and the NWA Seattle copy (or at least most of the original) is in the Harrison papers. Chaucer, has claimed recently to have all the information on the hijacking or whatever, so I eagerly await seeing some real data from him. Chaucer, the ball is in your court.

Actually, the Harrison version of the ARINC teletype transcripts does contain some information that is not related to Flight 305. The Seattle ATC radio transcripts were prepared under the supervision of Gerald Osterman who made the certification referred to above by FlyJack. It is those original transcripts that Osterman certified that I am trying to get a copy of, and they do exist in the FAA and FBI files.

Enough information to determine the actual flight path of the airliner in the Seattle/Portland area. There are several factors related to the flight path, and which have not been discussed here, that knowing the actual flight path could clarify.

Georger, this is just more of your nonsense. I have not ignored any issues. I know what Tena Bar is like since I have been there several times and so has Ulis as well as Josh Gates. You have not been to Tena Bar but are now trying to represent yourself as an "expert" on it and the surrounding area. There is absolutely no way that the money found at Tena Bar could have come from the mainstream of the Columbia River by natural means. How it could have gotten there has been discussed here at length for more than 10 years. Anyone interested in the matter can look up those posts. GEORGER, NEITHER THE FAA NOR THE FBI HAS DENIED THE EXISTENCE OF THE UNREDACTED SEATTLE ATC RADIO TRANSCRIPTS! Only people without any qualifications to speak on the matter claim that the unredacted transcripts don't exist.

Just what are the "established facts as we know them"? And just who established those "facts"? I think you have as much of a burden to prove your claims as anyone. Otherwise, you are just accepting something that someone else claims. For your information, there are probably not more than five provable "facts", based on present information, related to the flight path from Seattle to the point where the airliner gave its DME distance from what is now known as the Battleground VORTAC. There are some other odd things about the flight path segment mentioned above that have not been discussed on this forum or any other. Maybe Chaucer has figured them out since he claims to have ALL the information on the subject. In the meantime, I am sure that you will stick with your "established facts". Good luck!

Chaucer, if you have any aeronautical qualifications why do you refuse to list them? Anyone with even a limited knowledge of how air traffic control worked in the 1971-time frame can compare the Seattle ATC radio transcripts with the Oakland ATC radio transcripts and tell that the Seattle transcripts have been redacted. The FAA and the FBI have those unredacted transcripts. The FAA was required to keep those unredacted transcripts and the FBI is the agency that won't release them for some unknown reason. And for the record, neither the FAA nor the FBI has ever denied the existence of the unredacted Seattle ATC transcripts. The Western Flight Path has been discussed at length here for the last 14 years. I look forward to your providing "some real evidence, some real data, some document, some real witness statements" that prove your own theories on the flight path assuming you have any in the first place. In the meantime, I suggest you start stocking up on those towels.

I "think" you are going to need a lot of towels to wipe something off your face in due time.

Chaucer, your great big ego is fully on display here. Where and what is this "accepted USAF flight path" that you mentioned? Is it the so-called "FBI flight path"? Also, I don't do conspiracy theories.

Larson plainly stated that finding the money at Tena Bar was compatible with the flight path that he calculated. And basically, the only way that the money could get to Tena Bar is if the airliner was on the Western Flight Path and that Cooper was a no-pull. The Western Flight Path has been discussed at length on this web site since 2009 and on Shutter's web site. Anyone interested in it should check out the dozens or maybe hundreds of posts on this subject.

I certainly hope that someone will give Dr. Edwads the phone number for Larson. Tosaw's book does not have an index, and the lack of one is a crime against humanity in my opinion, so I am not going through the entire book just looking for Larson's name. However, starting on page 107 of his book, Tosaw describes his contacts with Soderlind. In summary, both Tosaw and Soderlind believed that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River and they were not referring to the east/west section of the river. In fact, the airliner would have crossed the east/west section of the river in less than four seconds. They were referring to the north/south section of the Columbia River, on which Tena Bar is located, which the airliner would have been tracking down for several minutes. If the airliner was on the Western Flight Path, Cooper would have had to be a no-pull to land in the Columbia of close to it. If he landed in the east/west section of the river he would have had to be a no-pull or have jumped over downtown Portland. If Georger is claiming that I am jumping to conclusions, then he is speaking with a forked tongue. I developed what is now known as the Western Flight Path in 2009 which was 14 years ago. And Georger has been well aware of that since then.

Chaucer and others need to read the "D.B. Cooper Connection" section in FlyJack's post above. Major Larson plainly writes, "The finding of ransom money in the Columbia River falls within the outlines that I provided to the FBI agent back in the early 1970s." Since others are claiming that Larson and Spangler came up with the same flight path, they are saying that the above comment also applies to Spangler. Consequently, Chaucer's claim that the Western Flight Path is DOA is nonsense. I never cease to be amazed at how some people on this site can so easily ignore proven facts to push their own silly agenda.

What leads you to believe that Larson came up with the same flight path as Spangler? Where is Larson's flight path and where is Spangler's flight path? I have never seen any flight path that was credited to either one of them. Are you claiming that the so-called FBI Flight Path was prepared by one or both of them?

Larson absolutely needs the raw data which would include the Seattle ATC transcripts among other things. Both the Seattle and Oakland ATC radio transcripts were available in printed form within a week of the hijacking. And the printed ARINC transcripts were available in almost real time on the evening of the hijacking. Obviously, the FBI contacted Larson because the previous flight paths by Spangler and NWA personnel were not believable. The FBI wanted fresh eyes on the matter and the place to start is with the original data and not what other people have done or messed up.

Larson was a navigator and would be fully qualified to calculate the flight path. If someone talks to him ask him to detail exactly what information the FBI gave him to evaluate. And specifically, if the FBI gave him the Seattle ATC radio transcripts of the communications with the airliner, did he get an unredacted copy of those communications? Also, did he get a full copy of the ARINC communications transcripts between the airliner and NWA?

As I understand it, only the Rescue C-130 had visual contact with the airliner. Some of the other aircraft were able to see it on their radars but not visually.