masterrig

It really does sound like he tried to do the right thing by contacting the state and getting that permit. I can totally see where he thought that was enough (I have lakeside property, and dealt with wetlands regulations -- it's a zoo out there). And yes, it sounds like a really tiny stream, and a disproportionate ruling. If the gummint doesn't go talk to them, they need to talk to the gummint themselves. If nothing else, if the gummint sends someone out to every applicant, administration costs go WAY, WAY up. Which means more taxes. Yeah, it sucks. So do automated phone inquiries (ATT is the worst). But they're a part of life now. Individuals pay more one at a time for their own causes, so that the gummint doesn't absorb as much of it on behalf of us all. Wendy P. There is a creek (seasonal) runs along the southern boundary of our property) that eventually feeds into a larger creek that runs into the Rio Grande. This creek, because of it's course, is controlled by the Feds. If, dead trees or boulders should block the course of the creek and someone wants to clear the obstruction to keep a home from being flooded in the (rare) event the creek floods... the feds have to be contacted! Makes about as much since as getting castrated because your neighbor has too many kids! Chuck

Seems to me, the EPA could avoid some problems if they would keep state informed so the states could keep-up. Also, which 'article above' are you referring to? Mind you, I am very much in favor of protecting our land and resources but all I would like to see is some sensibility from government agencies. I doubt that's going to happen!! Chuck

Unfortunately, morons with some power can become jack booted thugs. True in any organization. Consider police who act that way, military who act that way, the office manager who acts that way, the teacher who acts that way, the parent who acts that way, the bully who acts that way, the CEO in a company town who acts that way, the political donor who acts that way. When you're in thrall to them, either legally or financially, then you're screwed. Sometimes we call it "survival of the fittest." We tend to glorify power; that makes some of these morons decide that the way to show that they're cool and powerful is to throw themselves around. Gummint gives them a bigger voice. Wendy P. ...and the government really makes some lousy choices, too! Chuck

Bill, I've read everything I could find on the subject here and find no mention of the man building a 'spillway' on his pond. Only that the EPA is accusing him of building a dam and that material is seeping into the waterway. That's it. Maybe you can explain to me how the EPA can overrule a State's requirements for the pond. Doesn't The EPA inform the States of their regulations and requirement to comply? The man, according to all I can find, followed Wyoming State regulations and has a letter from the State of Wyoming stating that he is in compliance and due to the type of stock tank, is exempt from EPA regulations. Chuck

They are inefficient as hell. Or, are you in favor of the government spending money employing additional civil servants whose sole purpose is to make house calls? Wow! They don't have to hire more people... use the one's they have already or put the 'letter writers' to work. Make them earn their keep! Chuck

Probably not but the BLM, like I said, could have done it face to face, man to man, instead of some feather-legged letter. All letters of that kind do is piss people off and builds animosity. Besides, just what is wrong with an adult face to face meeting? Seems to me that it could lead to better relations and understanding on both sides. What do you think? Chuck

Oh , please. If people think the EPA is a "radical group" they have truly been brainwashed by the right-wing media. All govt groups have jack booted thugs that over step the boundaries of common sense. All government groups have opposing groups of whackos (sometimes carrying guns for extra bravado) who will show up to protest just about anything. So, yes, it's prudent for the government to also show up armed when confronting a dude who is in arrears in his taxes by a million dollars. I can almost assure you the first contact and option by the government in this case was not to show up armed. They've been sending letters for 20 years. OH, they sent letters! That'll do it! Why didn't they go out and visit with the man in person, get his side of the story and relate their side of the story. All those letters did was piss-off the rancher and set-up what just took place. I get the impression that Washington bureaucrats think farmers and ranchers are a bunch of straw chomping bumpkins who need to be told how to care for the land. If, they'd do a little digging, they'd find that a good number of farmers and ranchers have been to colleges and universities and learned how to take care of their land for better results. They learned from their grandparents who lived through the 'dust bowl' and floods and droughts. They've educated themselves so they can produce better beef and crops. I don't believe they need some arrogant desk jockey who probably got his job for supporting some politician and wouldn't know the eatin' end from the shittin' end of a cow, telling them 'how to do it'. Chuck

Oh , please. If people think the EPA is a "radical group" they have truly been brainwashed by the right-wing media. I don't hold with any 'party' but c'mon now, the EPA, BLM, BIA and other groups do come-up with some radical, hair-brained ideas and they do get militant. They start screwing with ranchers, farmers and just every day land-owners who know the land they use and live on better than some bureaucrat in Washington. Land owners who try to comply with regulations just get shown more hoops to jump through. The attitude out of Washington is, they are in power and control and just plain, lack common sense. They dictate rather than try to work with people and use intimidation and outrageous fines to get their way. If, they'd get out from behind their desks and get out there and get 'dirty' and visit with folks and try to come-up with reasonable ideas to help rather than just 'rule', things might be different. Their 'my way or the highway' attitude isn't helping anything. Just my opinion! Chuck

It figures... some senator's greed. Reid wants to get rich at some insignificant little rancher's expense. Now, all they have to do is get some spin doctor in there to white-wash the whole thing and Harry Reid walks away un-scathed. Just more government bull-shit. Proof again that our senators and congressmen don't give a crap for 'we the people', just themselves. Chuck

For one thing, that tank isn't big enough to cause a problem. He didn't leave the stream dammed up. That stream isn't that big, either! The guy followed the requirements of the State of Wyoming. Everything in regard to that stream is just like it was before he built that tank. The EPA has gone too far. Much like other radical groups. The EPA is not using good common sense. Again, some desk jockey with a little power. Chuck

I don't see a problem with that. When it rains hard enough and reaches the spill way, the excess water goes into the stream. Great idea! I can't see where that would jeopardize the stream any. Seems to me that he was keeping that in mind. Also, he went through all the process with the State requirements. Bottom line... I think the EPA is over-reacting. Chuck

Lake Travis is over 50 feet low. Here's a site that shows the levels of over 200 lakes across the country. Some of these are transient levels. But where people depend on them, either for irrigation or drinking, some of the levels are scary. Wendy P. You got that right... it is scary! Some of those big boats on Lake Travis are on high ground. Towns in West Texas are on water restrictions. Just plain ugly! Chuck I am sure the industry will have plenty of water to frack... personally I would love to see all of the people getting rich off that process drink, and cook and bathe in nothing but "produced water" Oh, hell yeah! They're not gonna hurt any. Chuck

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/13/us-usa-ranchers-nevada-idUSBREA3B03Q20140413 YESSSSSSSSSS!!! Chuck

Lake Travis is over 50 feet low. Here's a site that shows the levels of over 200 lakes across the country. Some of these are transient levels. But where people depend on them, either for irrigation or drinking, some of the levels are scary. Wendy P. You got that right... it is scary! Some of those big boats on Lake Travis are on high ground. Towns in West Texas are on water restrictions. Just plain ugly! Chuck

I would think with the widespread drought conditions across so much of the country.... there will be even more water rights fights a comin. I believe you're right! The last moisture we've had was March 16. We got 3-1/2 inches. Before that we got 1/2 inch of rain in late September. Since the snow in March... nothin'! Lakes here in Texas are several lakes are several feet low. That's just Texas. Other western states are in similar shape. Meanwhile, water wells are dryin' up. Water is becoming a scarce commodity. 'Wars' have been waged over water. I'd hate to see history repeat itself. Chuck The Seattle Area set an all time amount of rain last month at almost 10" Here at my place in the foothills not far from where the monster landslide took out a whole community... its far higher. We had a windstorm back in mid Feb that blew the clear vinyl top off my Costco 10x20'Tent greenhouse and that let the rain accumulate in the 55 gallon aquarium I had in there. I had cleaned it out last fall and it was completely dry. With that month of rain... it completely filled the 2'deep tank to overflowing. No drought here this year... and no deposits with oil or gas for them to frack and destroy the groundwater either. If, you're tired of all that moisture, could you maybe send some our way? Speaking of fracking, West Texas is in the middle of another 'boom'! Chuck

I would think with the widespread drought conditions across so much of the country.... there will be even more water rights fights a comin. I believe you're right! The last moisture we've had was March 16. We got 3-1/2 inches. Before that we got 1/2 inch of rain in late September. Since the snow in March... nothin'! Lakes here in Texas are several lakes are several feet low. That's just Texas. Other western states are in similar shape. Meanwhile, water wells are dryin' up. Water is becoming a scarce commodity. 'Wars' have been waged over water. I'd hate to see history repeat itself. Chuck

True story. Chuck

From the pictures I've seen of the man's tank, I could not see where that stream feeds that tank. He probably pumped water from the stream which is what others along the way do for the same purpose or irrigation. Bottom line, that stream is still running, ducks swim in it an the man's tank. Things like this happen all the west, all the time for over 100-yrs. and the eco system has survived. Chuck

As I understand it, he filled the pond with stream water then 'put it back' the way it was. From here on out, if the tank has a good bottom, rain will keep it full. I've seen nothing that says he diverted the stream and didn't put it back. Also, that stream water is his too, just like other folks along it. I'm sure too, the shit-storm he'd start by cutting water off to those folks down-stream. that's a damned good way to start a war! Chuck

It's on FoxNews. It doesn't have to make sense. That's not its purpose. Its purpose isn't to tell you the whole story. Its purpose is to incite your emotions against the EPA. I didn't figure you'd like that source. Do a search and take your pick. The pond is not fed by the near-by stream. They may have diverted the stream to fill it but 'put it back' when they were done. That 'tank', as we call them here in Texas, if it has a good bottom, rain water will keep it full. Also, the wildlife around utilize that tank so what's the beef with the EPA? They're trying to tell people what they can and cannot do with their property. Wrong answer! Every ranch in the state of Texas has similar stock tanks... maintained by water wells and not in any way going to harm the water ways. I think the EPA is going too far. Some desk jockey with a little power gone to his head. Chuck

I can understand taking care of our land and water but the way the EPA, BLM and others are going about it, makes no sense. Using intimidation and out and out gestapo tactics does not coincide with our Constitution or Bill of Rights or basic common sense. I guess, we can thank our president for making those department head appointments. Chuck

This just doesn't make sense. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/14/wyoming-welder-faces-fine-for-building-pond-on-his-own-property/ Chuck

Higher than market price? Liquidation generally doesn't get you market price, nor does it get you their potential future value. You said that if the defendant was victorious he could petition for a higher valuation. I had just never heard that before and was curious about your statement. Usually, they might get .50 cents on the dollar... if they're lucky. Chuck

those poor cows would be dead or worthless...this case has already been going on for 21 years! If auctioned, the money could be held in arrears, or paid back with interest at the point of resolution. If the defendant was victorious he could also petition for a higher valuation. Higher than market price? Chuck

Technically the land is owned by the state of Nevada and controlled/maintained by the BLM. Not sure if the state of Nevada has asked the BLM to handle this situation or if the Feds jumped in. There are reports of the confiscated cattle either being killed and buried where they are found, or immediately being sold at auction. Either way, is that destruction of property? Even if he was found guilty isn't evidence/property supposed to be kept around until all appeals are exhausted? Even if sold, 900 head of cattle won't pay the debt of 1.1 mil. It'll come close. If those reports have any truth to them, seems to me, the BLM is guilty of cattle theft and destruction of private property. No one, not even the BLM has a right to do that. I'll say one thing, I respect Mr. Bundy for standing-up for what he believes in! Chuck