masterrig

Me too. But when the feds do shit like this - I have more sympathy for the little guy. Me too. Far as I'm concerned, BLM screwed the pooch here. Fuck em I guess, there were to big money deals for the feds 20 yrs. ago. No Senator was gonna be 'set' for life! Chuck

That's an eye opener! Chuck

What's hilarious about this is that anybody thinks the President of the US (no matter who it is) would give a crap about this low level stuff before any shooting started. This is NOT the result of anything The White House has said or done. This IS the result of a guy deciding to not pay more than a million dollars in taxes. Where we are right this moment in this case is precisely where we'd be no matter who sat in the Oval. No matter who is in Oval, they probably wouldn't care. Correct. Which is why I find it hilarious that people attempt to pin this on Obama specifically. No different than folks blaming Bush for everything...STILL! Chuck Chuck

What's hilarious about this is that anybody thinks the President of the US (no matter who it is) would give a crap about this low level stuff before any shooting started. This is NOT the result of anything The White House has said or done. This IS the result of a guy deciding to not pay more than a million dollars in taxes. Where we are right this moment in this case is precisely where we'd be no matter who sat in the Oval. No matter who is in Oval, they probably wouldn't care. Chuck

And the GOP faithfull have their own special way of expressing themselves.. as evidenced by the most vile things ever said daily about this president in the history of the USA. There is no longer a need for a president anyway... a sizable portion of the electorate wish to go back to boot licking just like in the good old days of monarchies.... in hopes of that promised table scraps just like dogs at the royal courts of old. I don't care if they're Republican or Democrat as long as they just do the job! Chuck

Each new prez has his own way of expressing himself. Chuck

Quite true.. but since 1993 based on Saint Ronald RayGuns formula from the EO in 1986 that was imposed on each head... He has run a few head of cattle out there on OUR property without paying for it. Bottom Line is that they instituted the PAY TO PLAY (or graze) and he probably ponied up while Ronnie RayGun and King George the First was in office.. but stopped paying when those evil democrats got in office there in 1993.. I would say that is a tad disingenuous on his part. Well... just a little. As for 'our property', I don't mind him grazing cattle there... saves us havin' to mow it! Chuck I have good friends on the other side of the Cascades that do VERY well from "Mowing" their grass and Alfalfa. I imagine... there's good money in hay. Chuck

If there's any blood lust here, it appears to be from right wingers hoping for some dead BLM agents. Who do you think they are? Branch Dividians? No.. Just typical Tea Baggers hoping and praying for a confrontation to "Refresh the tree of Freedom" with some American blood. As opposed to over zealous government thugs. Yeah but you cheer on those over zealous thugs when they deport brown people.[/quot If, they are here illegally, they need deporting. Whoever it might be. They're breaking our laws. Ya' play... ya' pay. Chuck

Here ya' go... http://library.wrds.uwyo.edu/wrp/90-17/90-17.html Chuck

You seem to be focused on negatives. I'm sure there must be some positives in the situation also. The pond might mitigate flooding by absorbing excess water for a while and smoothing out the downstream flow. If the dam breaks, it's just a duck pond, there can't be that much water in it. During drought, if there's no water upstream, there wouldn't have been any water downstream either - no change, except that this guy is smart enough to stockpile water in his pond for himself. See the "Benefits" section of beaver dams, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver_dam Wyoming has a law dating back to their territorial days and is still on the books which in brief states first come first use. No one can totally cut-off water to downstream recipients but those upstream can divert it to fill a stock tank or irrigation or other use. Chuck

Quite true.. but since 1993 based on Saint Ronald RayGuns formula from the EO in 1986 that was imposed on each head... He has run a few head of cattle out there on OUR property without paying for it. Bottom Line is that they instituted the PAY TO PLAY (or graze) and he probably ponied up while Ronnie RayGun and King George the First was in office.. but stopped paying when those evil democrats got in office there in 1993.. I would say that is a tad disingenuous on his part. Well... just a little. As for 'our property', I don't mind him grazing cattle there... saves us havin' to mow it! Chuck

Probably an older picture but good try! I hadn't thought of Google Earth. Chuck

I've lived long enough to see the before and after changes in our environment from Texas to the Great Lakes, the Atlantic to the Pacific. I have never said that the EPA has not done good... they have! I've seen the sludge poured into the water ways from factories and the black smoke emitted from factory smoke stacks. I have said that I feel they have gotten a bit extreme in their zeal! Feather-legged as it were. I've seen the establishment of OSHA, too and how they have saved bodily extremities of farmers and factory workers. I also feel we need laws and restrictions or we'll have 'mob rule'. I'm no kid! All I have asked for is sense and sensibility in the use of power by the EPA. When I wanted to have a water well drilled on our property, I went to the local Water Board, got an application, filled it out, filed it and waited for the Board's answer. I received unanimous approval and contacted a reputable well drilling company. No Problem! I made sure that where the well-site was located and witched, was 'up-stream of my barn, septic tank and so-on. I have not referred to the EPA or any other agency as 'jack-booted thugs' maybe 'thugs'. Sometimes, some folks can let a little power go to their heads. I go by the 'reasonable man' theory. Chuck

I appreciate your point and well taken. I wish, there were more photos available of the tank, stream, dam and the surrounding area. That would really give us information... every picture tells a story. Chuck

Took a little longer than usual to get ol' Adolph involved in the discussion. Chuck

you want to wait until a house is swept away before worrying about it? (I can understand that. You have to keep in mind... it's a 'stock tank'! It's not Lake Superior. It's not the Missouri River. What I'm saying is, I feel the EPA has just gone over-board about this. They can't prove ill effects of that stock tank or the way it was built. What really gets me is, so many farmers and ranchers and other food producers GO TO various agencies and extension services to get ideas to help, save or improve their farm land, grazing pastures, woodlands and so-on, so as to benefit the eco system and raise better food products. So, the EPA has to pick on some little guy in Podunk, Wyoming who tried playing by the rules! It just doesn't make sense to me. We can 'what if' till we're blue in the face but where is the sense in all this? I realize, we need building codes, rules and regulations and so-on but good Lord, someone is just getting carried away with their 'power') Chuck Regulations like building codes are meant to be prescriptive, to prevent problems before they occur. Quite often they're written in a reactive manner, after bad things have occurred. But at that point, you don't continue to way for mayhem before you enforce them.

Just a polite way of saying it. Chuck

Meanwhile, good sense went out the window on both sides. Paying taxes and building a stock tank are two different things. Everyone knows you pay taxes and the consequences if you don't. I am of the impression that the guy in this case, went through the channels, county, state and never imagined that the EPA would get their panties in a wad over a 'stock tank'. I can see having an agency to protect our water ways and streams but I think too, the EPA goes a tad over-board with their power. In a year's time, how much damage has resulted from that man building that tank? How many fish have died or homes been flooded? How much erosion has destroyed the surrounding areas? How many fences have been washed away or any other hazardous thing? Can the EPA prove future damage to the environment? Then too, how many critters have gained from that tank? Water fowl have a stop-off on their way south, deer, rabbits and others can get a drink. I think the EPA is just being 'feather-legged'. Chuck

Most ranchers 'wealth' is their land, not necessarily in the bank or off-shore accounts. They pretty much live paycheck to paycheck and pay day is once a year at shipping time. Chuck

Thanks for adding that, wmw. People seemed to be believing here that if you build a dam that it cuts off the water flow completely below the dam. Not so. It only cuts off the water flow until the pond behind the dam fills up. At that point, it overflows and continues to feed downstream at the same rate as before. Just like a beaver dam. All it does is create a pond, but the water continues to flow. The downstream affect is very temporary. How is the fish migration up that stream doing.... Salmon runs ceased to exist behind Grand Coulee Dam within a couple years after its construction. That is one of the reasons fish stocks are just fractions of what they once were.. dams. It's OK... the government did it! Chuck

No, I wouldn't be OK with that and harmful is harmful and the list wouldn't change. Harmful chemicals getting into the water shed is never good. Chuck

I read all ten pages of the report and the way I see it, the guy tried to do things in accordance with the State of Wyoming. The EPA dis-agreed. My opinion is, the EPA is just flexing it's muscles and being bullies. I know of a local greenhouse operation here in rural West Texas that uses chemicals to grow their tomatoes and the waste water is poured out on the ground. Some of those chemicals can be used to make bombs. That operation is part of a large corporation with greenhouses in other states, Mexico and Canada. The EPA never comes near that place! Instead, they threaten and fine a single land owner trying to follow the rules. I respect that land owner for standing up for his beliefs. You and others may think he's wrong and should buckle under to a big government agency. Instead, he's standing-up. Isn't that what we are supposed to do? Just because they are a government agency doesn't make them right. Chuck

It really does sound like he tried to do the right thing by contacting the state and getting that permit. I can totally see where he thought that was enough (I have lakeside property, and dealt with wetlands regulations -- it's a zoo out there). And yes, it sounds like a really tiny stream, and a disproportionate ruling. If the gummint doesn't go talk to them, they need to talk to the gummint themselves. If nothing else, if the gummint sends someone out to every applicant, administration costs go WAY, WAY up. Which means more taxes. Yeah, it sucks. So do automated phone inquiries (ATT is the worst). But they're a part of life now. Individuals pay more one at a time for their own causes, so that the gummint doesn't absorb as much of it on behalf of us all. Wendy P. There is a creek (seasonal) runs along the southern boundary of our property) that eventually feeds into a larger creek that runs into the Rio Grande. This creek, because of it's course, is controlled by the Feds. If, dead trees or boulders should block the course of the creek and someone wants to clear the obstruction to keep a home from being flooded in the (rare) event the creek floods... the feds have to be contacted! Makes about as much since as getting castrated because your neighbor has too many kids! Chuck the EPA has a propsed rule out there now that would give the EPA power over a mud puddle in the middle of your field They are making the claim that these would be poluted waters BIG fight going on over that here right now Yes, the EPA is a radical organization Much like todays IRS After reading your post, I'm of the opinion, this whole thing is about power and control and money. I'm seeing some bullying along the way too. I can respect that welder in Wyoming and that rancher in Nevada for standing-up. Just because it's the government, doesn't make it right. Isn't that what America is all about? Standing-up for your beliefs? Those cowboys and even the various militia groups supporting one man... that's America! Things would've been a lot different if a few men hadn't stood-up to the British back in the 17 hundreds. Those men didn't agree with the oppression and bullying, they stood-up. You gotta respect that. Chuck

Chuck.. the BLM thing is just another overreach by that Kenyan Socialist right??? Could be. I'm not too fond of him, I'll put it that way. Chuck

I really appreciate your posting that. I don't know where you found it but it does shine light on the matter. Chuck