Hooknswoop

I didn't mean to make it sound that way. My point isn't so much competetor injuries, but the newer swoopers that look to them and think it is OK not to stand up the landing. Sacrafice the landing for speed/distance. I don't think that is the message they should be sending. Again, why not make it a rule that you have to stand it up for the run to count? No one has given a good reason why not. I see plenty of reasons why it would be a good rule. Derek

Do some research. I remember one article where the comment to the effect of, "I'm going to go down to the local sports store, get some pads and some ice packs so that people willthink I was a competetor too." was made. I know of one at this competetion that is out because of injuries. I could swoop and stand it up. It may have cost me some distance, but it was worth it. Derek

Right, and not standing it up. Derek

Ya, I said that as a joke, but always stood that canopy up too. It was a 189. So, now that we have talked about me, MH, etc. What about stand up landings, which is what this is really about? Derek

Tandems aren't a swooping competetion. I slide in some tandems, but you never saw me crash under my VX-60, ever. A lot of things would have to change that are not going to change. Stand it up or it didn't count. Derek

So next swoop comp up at Mile-Hi why dont you go up there and show Jay and JC how it should be done. From the sound of it you have the skill. *** Have you seen the pounding those guys take? I'm not getting any younger and don't like to get hurt if I can help it. Derek

Let add: "or by the jumper themselves". What were the other five things people caught? Derek

Aside from some of the tandems, I stood up every landing at MH. If the landing area wasn't suitable for a stand up landing, I didn't land there. I see advantages to requiring a stand up landing. I don't see any downsides. As for me competeting, I don't jump anymore. I would have competed when I was jumping, but didn't want to sacrifice a nice stand up landing or have to go down-wind when I knew I wouldn't be able to run it out to win. If they would have required stand up landings, I would have competed. I was very consistant. Why go down wind and not stand up when you could go cross wind or into the wind and stand up the landing? I haven't heard a good reason not to require stand up landings yet. I have heard some good reasons to require it though. Derek

Jumping over a pole and landing on a big pad so they don't get hurt. Want to compare injury rates between pro swoopers and pro high jumpers? No, should we require pro swoopers to land on a big thick pad? If the zone accuracy rules were changed to improve the image and progress the sport, then not standing up the landings in distance and speed is hurting the image not not progressing the sport. If stand up landings were required, you could still go as far as possible, but it would require that much more skill to stand it up at the end. Sliding in doesn't require any skill, standing up does. Swoop 650 feet and stand up the landing. Now that would be impressive. Using a tailwind to get the extra distance, sacraficing the ability to stand up the landing doesn't require any extra skill. Derek

Ya, I needed a vacation from the vacation though. LOL! Derek

No, flying it well and still standing up the landing is a skill. And still standing up the landing is a skill. Otherwise your arms were writing checks your legs can't cash. Derek

Have you ever caught something on someone's rig during a pic check that could not have been caught on the ground by the jumper? Derek

Don't those apply to distance and speed as well? Derek

You seemed to have read over the tailwind part. Of course it takes skill, but it takes skill to safely negotiate a 5 foot entry gate following a 600+ degree turn on a sub 100 square foot canopy. Adding 50-lbs of lead is not a skill. Landing down-wind is not a skill. Hitting home runs is a skill. Hitting home run with a corked bat is a skill too, but not as skillful as using a regulation bat. That is why corked bats are not allowed in baseball. Same goes for steriods. How is it fair that the top home run hitter gets beat because the other guy was willing to use steriods? Make the playing field even. Stand up the landing. If you can't, then you were in over your head. Derek

Why did they change the rules to penalize non-stand-up landings? Derek

Why? Why not stand it up anyway? If everyone has to for the run to count, then the small distance that would have been gained by sliding it in is lost to everyone, not just those that were willing to slide it in. It levels the playing field. No advantage for sliding it in. Stand-ups look better. They don't hurt. It would allow people to compete longer and allow more people to compete. I don't see a downside, but lots of up-sides. Derek

Because they don't hurt. They don't damage the gear. They aren't hard on the body. They demonstrate control and skill. We should train them so that they make injury-fee stand-up landings, yes. That is much better than hammering in. Every student I trained wanted to stand up the landing. The PLR was in the event that that their landing was not of stand-up quality. I stood up 99% of my landings (not couting tandems). It was a rare event for me to not stand up. I never got hurt. I disagree that standing a landing up is not as safe as sliding in. Maybe if you are going too fast down-wind or wearing too much weight. But then weights and tailwinds are not skill and you were in over your head. You guys keep dancing around it. Not standing up the landings sets a bad example. Not maybe or can set a bad example. It does. Newer jumpers see the pros go downwind, so they go downwind. They get hurt. There should be a cutoff that prevents anything other than skill from getting the pilot points. That should be a stand up landing. What extra skill does it take to go downwind as opposed to into the wind? None. It just looks better because of the higher ground speed. It looks better. It sets a better example. It also prevents someone from taking a 16-mph down-wind landing and beating canopy pilots that have more skill but are smart enough not to down-wind it in those conditions. What does requiring a stand up landing take away from the competition? What would it do to its image? What would it do to the example that is set to newer swoopers? What would it add to the competetion? So being out of control is OK, as long as you go fast. And we wonder why landing injuries are becoming more and more common. It is a matter of time before the rules will be changed to require a stand up landing. That will be a good thing for competetion and the sport as a whole. 4-way is about the free-fall, not about the landing. Swooping is the landing. Currently, someone that is a better pilot can get beat by someone that cares less about being in one piece. Take two identically skilled jumpers. One has a down-wind limit of 5-mph. The other has a down-wind limit of 15-mph. The wind are blowing 15-mph. The jumper that is willing to take the 15-mph tailwind and not stand up the landing is going to win. Not because he hs more skill, but because he is willing to not stand up the landing. Requiring stand-up landings for the run to count will decrease the abuse taken by competetors, allowing them to compete longer. It won't just be a young man's game. If you have to sacrafice that last 5 feet in order to stand it up, you lose 5 feet. But the same rules apply to the next guy. He can't sacrafice the landing for an extra 5 feet. So, why are you so against stand-up landings? Derek

15.65-mph = 7m/s OK, you are not standing it up w/ that tail wind. Newer jumpers aren't going to see it that way. They'll just see that downwinding the landing and cratering is the way to do it because that is how the pros do it. If you didn't stand it up, you were in over your head and it doesn't count. I'm not saying these guys are not awesome canopy pilots, they are, the very best. But it would level the field if they were required to stand up the landing. Cratering the landing is not progress, it is regressing. Rounds= crater. Squares = flare to a stand-up landing- made skydiving safer and easier on the body. Swooping= OK to crater. That is regressing. Derek

Why? If you can't stand up the landing, are you going farther because you got better or had a higher tail wind? Why can't you go farther/faster/more accurately without compromising the landing? I don't see stand up landings as holding the sport back, I see them as allowing the sport to grow with the emphasis on pure skill. People watch the pros. If the pros go downwind and crater, what do you think the new guys learn from that? It is OK to crater, just go big. They don't care if the pros say,"go slow, stand up your landings, etc." They see what the pros cratering and think it is OK, even the right way to do it. Because, "that is how the pros do it." If the pros were required to stand up their landings and a new guy was bragging about his downwind to a ccrater landings, the pro could mention, "Sure, but you would have gotten a zero in competetion." That would cool his jets and he would focus more on learning how to fly the canopy and not how to survive the crash at the end. Requiring a stand-up landing prevents the newer jumper from skipping larning how to swoop and just using tailwinds to get the distance/speed. Cratering the landing is regressing the sport of canopy flying, not progressing it. Swooping is not about who carries the most weight, or who is willing to down-wind it in the highest winds. What skill is there in that? What is the skill in down-winding in 50-mph winds? You could go break the distance record on the next 50-mph wind day, just down-wind it. Does that make you the best canopy pilot in the world? It should be about skill. That is the example pro swoopers should be setting. That it is not OK to crater the landing. The best canopy pilots stand up the landing. Why are you so against stand-up landings? Derek

This isn't about my old canopy. This is about standing up the landing. Someone with less skill can beat someone of more skill because of their willingness to crater the landing. Want a level playing field? Require a stand up landing for the run to count. Derek

I always walked my landing area before landing on it. If it wasn't suitable, I didn't land there. Yes, I expect people to stand up almost every landing. If the wind is so strong that you can't go downwind and stand it up, then don't go downwind. Not requiring a stand up landing for the run to count is bad for several reasons: 1) It sets a bad example for the up and comers by sending the message that it is OK to crash and get hurt, just go big. 2) It removes some of the skill aspect from competetion and replaces it with whover is wiling to crash the hardest. Anyone can hook it downwind in 50-mph winds and beat the current distance record. Of course it is really going to hurt. That isn't about skill, it's about going big. If you a wearing so much weight to increase your distance that you can't stand up the landing, then you wearing too much weight. Requiring a stand up landing levels the playing field and takes the willingness to crash big out of the equation. Since you bring it up, I remember a competetion in CO where the max distance was 2 cones. I was doing a fun jump and swooped the course right after the competetion was over, going 4 cones.......... Of course, it is too late now, but I never competed, (wanted to) because it didn't matter if you cratered. I wasn't willing to crash to win, and couldn't compete against that that were. This isn't about MH. If you look at my previous posts on the subject, they are the same, regardless of where the competetion is being held. Derek

Wow, very few stand up landings. Want to impress me, stand up the landing. Derek

It's been a few months with nothing new. Any word? Derek

If the student didn't have an open canopy. My job as an AFFI was to train the student, on the ground and int he air, and ensure they deployed a canopy. I never had to chase one low because I never let them get that low. If you cannot catch and deploy your student, don't do AFF. My opinion only, a lot of people will disagree. I never wanted to land, walk up to Johnny's parents and tell them their son was dead because I failed at my job. I took it very serious. An AFFI is not an observer, if you just want to observe, be a coach. Derek

Yes, the mod makes the tolerances that much tighter and less forgiving of a less than perfect reserve pack job. Of course it would, but that is a poor way to go about deciding your reserve size, backwards actually. Maybe, but you are not making it easy on them. At some point, no one can make it look right. Sounds like a larger container is the best fix. Derek