Hooknswoop

Not if help had to come from another state and get though flooded areas and rescue 10,000+ other people that spun in under a tension knot and broke their backs too. Especially if they could have cut away and deployed their reserves and avoided needing to be rescued in the first place. Derek

They wouldn't be a hypocrtic unless they criticized you for taking too long and not doing enough to help. Derek

That's fine, just don't complain that the relief effort isn't going as well as you think it should if you chose to stay in the face of a mandatory evacuation order. Derek

Were Cypres loops around when Racers were TSO'd? Derek

And I think that the people that could have left and didn't that are complaining about relief efforts have no right to. You didn't call everyone stranded there 'dirt' and I didn't criticize everyone stranded there. No matter how many times I say the same thing, you think I said something else. Talk about forest through the trees. Derek

Until you have proof that a significant fraction of those stranded are "dirt", I think your statement is way out of line. Why do you try and say I said things I didn't and deny what you actually did say when caught? Derek

Of course and I agree. This indivdual has it in for the U.S. and is posting anything they can to make the U.S look bad. My point is this sort of stuff is everywhere and not limited to the U.S., as this person seems to think it is. Derek

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/68520.stm Terrible, just terrible. Edit to fix link. Derek

I'm guessing because you wished something bad to happen to them, so they wished something bad to happen to you. Eye for an eye sort of thing. Derek

LOL. You still miss my point. Everyone else seems to get it. One more time: "My point is if you decide to stay, even in the face of a mandatory evacuation order, when you have the means to leave, don't complain if rescue/relief efforts aren't perfect. You knowingly took the chance, live with the results." This is the best part, where I have I applied "blanket criticism" of the victims. I have been very specific. As specific as the victims that could have left, chose not, and are complaining about rescue efforts. Where did I say I expected 500,000 people to evacuate? I have been very specific, you keep trying to say I said thing I didn't say. It's all there for you to go back and read. What is this, twice now in this thread alone you have tried to put words in my mouth? Keep trying to spin what I am saying Derek

“From the behavior I see on TV, it's already full of dirt.” “Do you mean the ones you referred to as dirt?” No, the filth from the flood and overflowing sewers is the dirt.” “What do you think of people who rape refugees and shoot at rescue workers?” You called some of the people ‘dirt’. Then when called on it, you denied it and said you were referring to the mess caused by the flooding. When called on that, you justify calling those people ‘dirt’ without admitting you did call them 'dirt' and then denied it. “Don't assume that everyone who stayed behind, or even most of them, did so voluntarily.” You tried to say that I assumed something I never said. You should be a politician the way you spin everything. Derek

Yep, that is all I am saying. Except, include the people who stuck around because they didn't believe it was going to be as bad as it was, shouldn't complain when they are rescued. That is all I have said. Yep, I said that in my first post. Some couldn't leave for various reasons. Some stayed to help, etc. I'm not talking about them. From my first post: "If you didn't leave because you didn't think it was going to be that bad, you made the same mistake FEMA did and it would be hypocritical to criticize FEMA now." Derek

That's just it, it is the same. They did choose to experience a hurricane. They chose to ride it out. When they made that choice they gave up the priviladge to complain about any rescue efforts. The guy that stayed behind to help can complain if he chosses. I'm talking about those that stayed just because they wanted to. Not to help others, but because they didn't think it would be that bad. Nope. I was in Savannah, GA in 1999 when a hurricane came through. I left. Maybe, but I would be pissed, which wouldn't help future efforts. I'm not assigning blame, I'm suggesting that those that stayed but could have left and are complaining about relief efforts should shut up and stop being hypocrits. I still think they should be rescued and given all the help we can give them. But when they get hoisted into the helicopter or picked up by a boat, they should say "Thank you". Mistakes were made. Figure that out later. That includes the recuees. You say assign blame later, but some of the rescuees are assigning it now. I agree that they should stop and that is all I am saying. Derek

If I was one of the volunteer rescue workers in NO right now and someone that could have left and chose not to started giving me attitude from not rescuing them right away, I'd leave'em. They forfeited their right to criticize rescue personnel when they chose not to leave. When they decided to stay, even though they could have left, they accepted responsibility for whatever happens. When people climb Mt. Everest, they are forfeiting any expectations of rescue and accepting that if there is a problem, they will have to handle it or they will die. Climbers climbing Mt. Everest accept that responsibility. If you could have left NO and chose not to, you have no right to criticize/blame FEMA. You took responsibility for what would happen to you when you made that choice. If you did not realize that when you made that choice, too bad. I cannot save you from yourself. This, again, is limited to those that could have left, didn’t, and are now complaining about the rescue efforts. Derek

Exactly. The people being rescued should say, "Thank you." Not, "What fucking took you so long?" FEMA should learn from this too though. Everyone should. I am not playing the blame game, the opposite actually. Derek

We are rescuing them. They are bashing FEMA now on the news. They are acting like hypocrits now. Calling them hypocrits now doesn't slow down the rescue process. Here's a different analogy: You and your buddys go skiing in the back country knowing that a big snowstorm is coming. You and your buddys don't think the storm will be as bad as the news is predicting. You get lost and are stuck. Rescue personnel take a while to get to you because they didn't get all their gear ready to go in preperation for the big snowstorm because they didn't think it was going to be that bad and they wouldn't have to go rescue people. Would you bitch to the rescue personnel when they get to you that they should have realized how bad the storm was going to be and been more prepared? I hope not. If I did that, I would be thankful for whatever assistance I got. Derek

Again, spot on. Derek

I didn't refer to a total. Did you actually read my posts? It is an observation. Other people got my point. You still don't get it. I don't know how else to explain it so that you will understand. Derek

Nope, you got it, spot on. Derek

Where did I assume that everyone or most of the people that stayed behind could have left? You are reading things I didn't write. I specifically refered to those that have the means to leave and didn't. Seems to me I made that very clear. -"What of the ones that could have left and didn't"- yep, I did make that very clear. Derek

You missed my point, again. I am not blaming the victims. My point is if you decide to stay, even in the face of a mandatory evacuation order, when you have the means to leave, don't complain if rescue/relief efforts aren't perfect. You knowingly took the chance, live with the results. Derek

http://www.bmwlt.net/photo/displayimage.php?pos=-791 Funny cartoon, best I've seen. Derek

A farmer went to hook his plow to his mule to plow his field and found the mule dead. The famer said, "Well, he never did that before". My poin is that there are people that could have left, didn't because they didn't think it would be as bad as it is, and are now complaining that FEMA wasn't prepared for it being as bad as it is, i.e. making the same mistake they did. Derek

Well, not really, but it makes my point. Derek

OK, some people couldn't for different reasons. What of the ones that could have and didn't? What of the ones that could have left and didn't that are now complaining about the poor response by FEMA? Those that didn't think it was going to be that bad and didn't leave made the same mistake FEMA did. Except now FEMA takes all the heat. If you didn't leave because you didn't think it was going to be that bad, you made the same mistake FEMA did and it would be hypocritical to criticize FEMA now. It is kinda like rear-ending someone because you were following too close and then getting out and yelling at the person that hit you because they were following too close. Derek