Hooknswoop

"I saw one such near-fatality this weekend which would not have occurred had be been jumping a larger canopy. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't buy that. Are you absolutely certain that a larger canopy would have prevented this incident? It couldn't have been something as simple as operator error, could it? I realize that not everyone should be flying a highly loaded high performance canopy, but unless the canopy simply didn't do its job, or failed in a structural way then let's shift the blame for this accident off of the canopy and back onto the jumper where it belongs." I don't think Bill was blaming the canopy, I think he was saying that had the jumper chosen a larger canopy than he did, the results wouldn't have been as bad or been avoided all togther. Hook

I have taught student using 0-P 9 cell mains loaded at between .9:1 and 1.2:1 and in 700+ jumps not one of my student had a landing injury, (had a couple get the hell knocked out of them on opening though). This was made possible though focused canopy training on 3 tandem jumps, a class that strongly emphasised canopy control, pre-briefs that included canopy control instruction, and paying very careful attention while on the radio talking them down. So is it unsafe?, it can be, but if handled properly, it can also be safe. Hook

Honest information from manufacturers would help change this "witch hunt" atmosphere. People are going to discuss canopys/gear and try to determine if there is a problem with a particular piece of gear. They will assume that a particular piece of gear is defective if it is involved in an accident and is supsected as the cause. If the company either doesn't explain what happend to their satifastion or trys to but no one will believe them because their track record doesn't demonstrate reliability or trust. Manufacturers live and breathe this stuff. They have knowledge that the general skydiving community does not have. I think they should share as much as that knowledge as possible, without, of course, hurting their company. I sometimes feel I have to filter through all the marketing hype to try and find some real information about a piece of gear. There is no such thing as a canopy that does everything great. Hook

What they are saying is that a 100 sq ft canopy loaded at 1.0:1 will out perform a 200 sq ft canopy loaded at 1.0:1, all other things being equal. The performance graph is not a straight line. Hook

Before you can inspect your line set it is necessary to know what type of lines you have and what to look for. There are three different types of suspension lines currently in popular use: Dacron, Spectra, and Vectran, each having different properties and performance as well as different inspection and replacement requirements. If you’re not sure what type of lines you have, check your manual, consult your rigger, or call the manufacturer of your canopy. Dacron is a white, thick, heavier-duty line. Dacron is found in three sizes; 600, 800, and 1000 pound tensile strength. It will stretch a little on opening, lessening opening shock. Over time, it will shrink from the heat caused by the friction from the slider descending the lines on deployment. Dacron tends to be used on larger canopies that are not sensitive to line trim so the lines will probably wear out before line trim becomes a factor. The extra drag from the thicker line doesn’t affect a large, slow canopy as much as they would affect a small, fast canopy. Dacron lines should last 800 jumps or more before the line set is worn to the point they need to be replaced. Spectra is a common line found in different sizes based on their strength. It is a thin, flat, white line. Spectra comes in four sizes; 550, 725, 825, & 1000 pound tensile strength. Spectra is the most common type of line used on canopies. It doesn’t stretch on opening, transmitting all the opening forces to the jumper. It shrinks much quicker than Dacron, but isn’t as thick so it has less drag. On faster canopies, line drag becomes a factor, and the smallest Spectra, 550, is very thin and has very little drag. The thicker Spectra is usually used for the steering lines. A canopy lined with 550 Spectra will be out of trim before a canopy lined with 825 Spectra. A Spectra line set’s trim should become out of tolerances before a line breaks. Spectra usually lasts from 400 to 500 jumps, depending on the size of the line, before the line set is out of trim. Vectran is the newest line (not anymore, HMA is). It is a thin, yellowish brown and comes in three sizes; 500, 750 and 1000 pound tensile strength. Like Spectra, it also doesn’t stretch on opening. Vectran is usually used on the small, faster canopies that are very sensitive to line trim. Vectran biggest advantage is that it doesn’t shrink from the heat from the friction of the slider. The down side of this new line is that it wears faster then other types of line. Vectran lines need to be replaced based on wear, not line trim. A Vectran line set should be replaced after 350 to 400 jumps. Checking the condition and trim of your canopy’s line set is simple. Run up your lines from the container to the canopy the same as the beginning of a normal “PRO” pack. Inspect the lines as you go, looking for areas of wear indicated by fraying. Check the length of your steering lines with the brakes set. They should be exactly even. If they are not even, check to see if they are twisted. A twisted steering line will be shorter than a line that is not twisted. It is best to remove any twists from your steering lines each time you pack. A high wear area, (as I discovered), is near the loop for setting the breaks. As you fly the canopy, this area of lines is being pulled back and forth through the guide ring on the rear riser, causing wear. Stainless steel guide rings on the rear risers will reduce this wear because they are smoother than the zinc plated rings. When your canopy opens in brakes, the steering lines are under tension. Every time you release your brakes, you pull the tab (the stiff part of the toggle for setting the brakes) out of the loop. This “sawing” action results in tremendous wear on the loop, eventually causing it to break. Another high wear area is where the lines attach to the links. If the slider is allowed to flap as you fly your canopy, the grommets beat on the lines, causing wear. A simple solution is a collapsible (kill line) slider. Vectran is more susceptible to these types of wear than Spectra or Dacron. Your rigger can replace a single line that is fraying. Some riggers will replace entire line sets, but the manufacturer can replace a line set easier and in less than half the time it would take most riggers. Stainless steel slider grommets and soft links will also increase the life span of your lines. A brass slider grommet impacting a stainless steel Rapide link will cause the grommet to dent and burr. Instead of having a smooth grommet sliding down your lines, the grommet will have a rough surface, wearing out your lines at a faster rate. After inspecting your lines, gather up the nose cells as in a normal “PRO” pack, and making sure that your risers are even and your lines are taunt, compare the length of the “A” lines (the lines that attach to the nose of the canopy). Compare the difference in length of your outer “A” lines (the lines that attach to the end cells of the canopy) to your center “A” lines (the lines that attach to the center cell of the canopy). When the line set is new, the “A” lines are all the same length, except for a few canopies, (check your owner’s manual). As the canopy is jumped the outside lines will shrink faster than the inner lines (except with Vectran lines) because they are in contact with the slider grommets more than the inner lines. This uneven shrinkage affects the openings and performance of the canopy. If your outer “A” lines are shorter than the inner “A” lines, measure the difference with a ruler. Then check your owner’s manual or call the manufacturer of your canopy to find out how much the line set is allowed to shrink. If the line set is out of tolerances, send the canopy back and have the manufacturer replace the line set. I have had a line set replacement take as little as one week and as much as four weeks. When you inspect the sections of line with another line “finger trapped” inside it, be careful. When the outer line frays, it can look as if the line is not in bad condition because the inner line makes the line thicker. But if the outer line breaks the inner line can slip out and the line will come apart. Replacing the line set of your canopy is a part of the regular maintenance of your rig and will bring new life back into your canopy. A line breaking on opening can result in a cutaway and a line breaking at low altitude could be fatal. Hook

Excellent post, bill, thanks. Hook

>His cutaway pillow could have just as easily been the handle to fold under. Does > that mean pillows for cutaway handles are bad? Yes! They are not as good as they could be. The strong tandem cutaway handle is an improvement, for example (stiffener/finger pocket.) >Again, if pillows are so bad, why are they used as cutaway handles on 99% >of the rigs out there? Why are so many PC's made wrong? Why do so many rigs not have hard housings in their riser cutaway cable channels? Why did some rig mfrs use soft housings for years? Because, in most cases, people just didn't think enough. In many cases, the problem has persisted for years and years. I don't think "not as good as it could be" = bad. What skydiving gear is as good as it could be? How many rigs in use today are perfect? Everything is continuesly being improved upon by great manufacturers. Can the pillow be improved upon?, Yes. In it's current form "bad"? I don't think so. It a pillow reserve handle the right choice for everyone? No. Is it a good choice for some? I think so, yes. Hook

"Now think of where your reserve handle is in a total malfunction. It's down below your armpit, tucked tightly against your body, maybe even UNDER the webbing, and more than a little bit hard to see, especially if you're wearing a full face helmet. Now think how much a reserve pillow handle feels like your harness, or a fold in your jumpsuit, especially if you're wearing gloves. Now picture yourself low, out of time, and in desperate need of a reserve handle that you can't see or feel. Aren't you glad you bought that Cypres?" I dis-agree. I looked through parachutists to compare the position on reser hard handles and reserve pillow handles. n every picture that they were visable, the reserve pillow stuck out farther thatn a hard handle from the jumper's body. Some of the hard handles were laying flat against the jumpers body. A reeserrve pillow that is tucked under the harness webbing should be caught before exit the same as a cutaway pillow tucked under the M/L/W or a BOC handle tucked into the pocket. Some people prefer to cutaway from a PC in tow (that's another debate) and that would include pulling the cutaway pillow at terminal. I agree that it is a trade-off, that pillows aren't perfect and could be improved (like Bill Von mentioned, plastic stiffers, some have them, some don't, and a pocket for your fingers to fit into), but they do have advantages over hard handles (less likely to be snagged or come out of pocket accidently). Reserve pillows seem to get unfairly slammed. Hook

"It also makes you less predictable to other canopy pilots. "Which direction is that guy going to roll out on?" Everyone knows exactly where I am going, every time and they can account for my flight path, I am very predictable and that helps w/ traffic." "This is very true and is exactly why we should always leave ourselves an out. I always try and set up such that at least the last 90 degrees of my carving turn are free of obstacles. That way, if I find myself too low to complete the turn, I can get off the riser early without having to worry about hitting a hangar or a tree." Right, but if I am coming in behind you, I don't know where you are going and it makes it difficult to plan my approach around you. If you roll out in a direction I don't expect or different from what you did last time, that complicates my approach. So from a traffic standpoint, I don't like carves. I vary my dive w/ the aggressiveness of the initial hook and the amount of double fronts. Hook

I make an aggressive front riser turn to double fronts for my hook turns. I have found it leaves a wide margin for error, amout of doubles, rate of initial turn, how much I tuck all affects recovery arc and speed. If you find yourself low in a carve and let off, you now have to land in a different dirrection than you initially planned on or carve. This may be bad if the new direction has an obstacle I the way. It also makes you less predictable to other canopy pilots. "Which direction is that guy going to roll out on?" Everyone knows exactly where I am going, every time and they can account for my flight path, I am very predictable and that helps w/ traffic. I also stay out of the center of the landing area, I prefer the edges. "If someone is landing to my right, they will end up in that big pine tree", so less traffic worries for me. I also try and get down first so I don't have to deal w/ traffic. People don't tend to like someone going by them at 90+ andI try to prevent that, but if I am last out, I simply can't wait for the larger canopies to land, I am going to beat them and down and therefore I have to pass them. I try to pass them high, but that can simply put me in the middle of the pack. It can be difficult to deal w/ other pilots after the landing because they didn't like me passing them, but they tend to only see it from their side. I don't own the sky/landing area, but neither do they. We have to co-exist peacefully. I get a lot of ugly stares from odler jumpers on larger canopies. Looks like I drifted off-topic, sorry. Hook

I would dis-agree. I have found that at higher wing loadings, canopies are pressureized more and more resistant to collapsing, so an advantage of "pocket rockets" are being able to handle turbulence better. Hook

"As far as folding under - ask Rick Horn who was saved by his RSL when his reserve pillow folded under and he couldn't get to it. " His cutaway pillow could have just as easily been the handle to fold under. Does that mean pillows for cutaway handles are bad? Again, if pillows are so bad, why are they used as cutaway handles on 99% of the rigs out there? If they work as cutaway handles, why not reserve handles? Hook

As it is a reserve (raven-max maybe?) that probably doesn't have a bridle attachment point and it looks like the line is stowed with the other lines, I think it is a way to deploy a reserve and not lose the D-bag. Looks like one end is tied to the link inside the d-bag that is part of a kill line pilot chute and the other end of the line is probably attached to a link on the risers. The line probably comes out of the rubber band on opening and the bag and pilot chute trail behind the jumper on a long line until it is pulled in by the pilot. A free-bag system without losing the free-bag. Hook

"Here is something that I have not yet read in this thread as a good reason not to go with pads on the reserve side: Simple grip strength is plenty of reason that it would be "harder" to pull that reserve pillow even though there might be considerably more actual force needed to activate your cutaway system. Until last year when I broke two fingers on my right hand at Quincy, my left grip was substantially less than my right. Now, they are about the same no matter how much I squeeze the clay they gave me at occupational therapy. I can tell you that while I got both handles pulled OK, it WAS a bitch to get that reserve pillow unseated and pulled on the ride I took a couple of weekends ago. That I had made five BirdMan flights that day in quick succession may have been a factor, as you definitely use different arm muscles to maintain the best aerodynamic form. SERIOUS 4 and 8-way guys can definitely relate to the feeling; being so smoked from spinning blocks that you can barely pull your BOC. " Would you jump w/ your right hand in the condition your left hand was in? If you dis-located your shoulder on opening and had a mal, would you have been able to pull the cutaway pillow with your left hand and then pull the reserve pillow, without taking too much time? I don't think anyone is arguing that pillows are harder to get a solid grip on that hard handles, just that the grip you can get on a pillow is sufficent and that the snag resistance over the hard handle is a very attractive reason to use a pillow for the reserve handle in addition to the cutaway handle. like almost everything in skydiving, it is a trade-off, a liitle harder to grab, but less likely to snag. I have seen floating hard handles, but I haven't seen a floating pillow. Hook

What do you base this extra loss of altitude on? The wind, affecting your ground-speed may have changed your perception of how much altitude loss in a turn, but in realtity, a constant wind doesn't affect the recovery arc of a canopy. I have noticed a different "sight picture" on windy days vs. calm days, the hook looks different, but recovery arc and altitude loss is the same, all other things being equal. Hook

I think it would be a great idea to have the standards for the 3-ring TSO'd to make sure manufacturers build them to specs. I don't think requiring a rigger to perform 3-ring maintenance or assemble a main is a good idea. Too little 3-rings are actually maintained and this would force the jumpers that are performing the maintenance to either do it illegally or have their rigger perform a task they should be able to handle themselves. Considering it took the FAA 10 +/- years to update part 105, and the current writing would put TSO'd main risers under the rigger umbrella of responsibilty, it would probably take another 10 years to get a "main riser" clause added to fix it. Personnaly, TSO'd main risers would be a good thing for me as a rigger and wouldn't change the way I do business at all for my gear. So for selfish reasons, TSO'em :-) Hook

The key word is "approved" components. Just the TSO'd stuff. Anyone can assemble a main from the risers up. Hook

From Pointer's: AC 105-2 "The assembly or mating of approved parachute components from different manufactures may be made by a certificated and appropiately rated rigger or parachute loft in accordance with the manufacture's instructions and without further authorization by the manufacture or the FAA." Hook

I was very surprised with the performance of the Crossfire 2, 89 today. From opening to landing, it was a kick to fly. I figure I can't fly the small stuff forever, but the "2" impressed me today and will be a nice canopy for me when I do end up up-sizing.....way in the future :-) Hook

I've jumped Crossfires:104, 109, 116, and 134 The "2" turns faster, has a longer recovery arc, lots of flare, and very nice openings. Hook

"Is there a standard procedure for dealing with this?" Close the door and wave at them, they'll leave. :-) Hook

I've jumped the Safire2 129, Crossfire2 149, 108, and 89. I put several jumps on the 89 today. In a word impressive. Openings, front riser pressure, toggle turns (especially on the 89), recovery arc on the Crossifre2, and flare were all great. The Safire had a short recovery arc, but that was intentional. When I eventually up-size, I will look hard at the Crossfire2. I was amazed by how much I could carve the Crossfire2. Hook

Bill- I don't have a death wish. I think I have the distintion of being the only skydiver w/ 2700+ jumps, regularly fly a canopy at 3.1:1 wingloading and have never been injured. I am looking foward to the V303. Hook

Bill- I had the pleasure of attending your presentation last year at PIA about your new Sigma tandem rig. I own a V304 and love it, absolutely zero complaints about the rig. Absolutely solid rig. I would buy another one if you made one w/ the same size reserve container, but much smaller main container. My canopy swims in the main container of the 304. Hook

">My point was if a pillow handle works for a cutaway handle, why do you need a >better grip on the reserve handle which is easier to pull? I don't think grip on a > pillow has been a factor in hard pulls. I know it has been a factor on tandem hard pulls, which is one reason the pocket is now used. An "open" handle allows several hand positions that allows you to maximize your leverage - a soft closed handle allows only one." I agree the pocket on a pillow handle makes it easier to grab and is a good idea. I've found the tandem handles harder to pull because of their position (high and outboard). >I don't think I have ever heard a story where someone experienced a hard pull and > couldn't get a good enough grip on a pillow handle. I think they are related. Your arms are stronger in some positions than others." But is your grip stronger in different positions? I can make a tight fist regardless (within reason) of how I position my arm. ">With aircraft, the enginge controls (on twins/multi) are nect to each other. On > rigs, the handles should stay on their respective sides. If the situations were the same - the left handle opened the "left" parachute and vice versa - I would agree. That's intuitive. However, imagine a throttle quadrant on a single engine plane with three identical levers, one for mixture, one for throttle and one for prop, all in the same place. That would, ergonomically speaking, be a mistake. A better plan would be to make the three levers feel different to prevent accidental featherings and such. And even that isn't a great example, because generally speaking, all levers forward will get you out of most situations where you need maximum power." How about fighters, stick in right hand, throttle in left. How often do fighter pilots dive their aircraft when they meant to throttle up? Or cut the power when they meant to climb? The controls feel different, the controls in the front seat of a Cobra, AH-1 feel very similar without confusing the two. ">That has got to be very rare, concious enough to decide to pull reserve instead of > main and pull a hard handle but not concious enough to pull a pillow." It was not an issue of consciousness but of strength. She had dislocated her shoulder and had very little strength in her arm. She could definitely not reach her BOC." I'm a little confused, I assume you mean she dislocated her right shoulder and left arm/shoulder was OK. Should have no problem pulling reserve handle, pillow or hard. >My point was if the cutaway handle is harder to pull then the reserve handle and >a pillow works for the cutaway handle, then a pillow will defiantely work for a >reserve handle because it is easier to pull. "Given that there have been several severe injuries/fatalities caused by hard cutaways, I would not use that as evidence that a similar arrangement will definitely work for reserves. There are mechanisms that cause both hard cutaways and hard reserve pulls. Again, that doesn't mean that you must have a metal D-ring, but I would suggest that there's a lot of room for improvement over the typical floppy padded pillow." I have two rigs w/ pillows for both cutaway and reserve handle. One has plastic stiffeners to keep the handles pointed inboard and help prevent folding either pillow under when putting the rig on. It also has a metal ring surrounded by padding and cordura on the reserve handle. I have 6 cutaways w/ these handles and no problems. They do feel different. The other has pipe inserts in the handles and they feel the same. They don't have the plastic inserts. I haven't pulled these for real yet, but I am comfortable with this set-up also. I have found very few gear choices that are not a trade-off of some sort. I agree they can be improved upon. This is almost as much fun as sitting around the DZ w/ a few beers discussing this stuff :-) Hook