Rstanley0312

Or "liberals"... BUt But But But But But.... thats different Everyone knows it is the R's fault ... no the D's..... or maybe the libs........... the right wing evangelicals? No wait I know..... it is the super rich CEO's fault. Seriously though we all really know it was GWB's fault don't we? Our system is screwed up that's the reality but it is still better than any other country imo. Rob Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

A panoramic of the sky does make for a good piece of video. Mine has never done that... either of mine actually. Something to look forward to ..... The article was very well written and thorough. It seemed like a lot of work. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

Really? Mine does like to do a little left turn after it is opened but with a slight harness turn it is adjusted pretty easily. Is this what you are referring 2? I have jumped a few other canopies.... not as many as you I'm sure but my xfire2 I'd say opens on heading more than not. oh it's a 149. Rob P.s. good article in Parachutist this month Bill! Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

Thank you for sharing and offering a great description of what happened. Glad you are okay! Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

Liquid Sky in my opinion. Made extremely well and the fit is perfect on my suit. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

Yeah. Which just goes to show: many stupid ideas get a free pass by being labeled "sayings". I disagree.... the saying is pretty accurate in this sue happy world. If you have money to lose in business you are highly likely to get sued. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

Which business is that? Not skydiving, for sure. The problem with being sued for skydiving is that it's almost always personal injury or wrongful death, and that's expensive. If you have a business deal go bad, the judgement rarely exceeds the value of the deal. There may be some slight punitive damages, but more times than not, the plantiff is 'made whole' and that's the end of it. If you injure or kill someone, that's another story. An injury case is a bitch because you start off with every penny of their outrageous medical bills, followed by the punitive damages for their pain and suffering. If you kill someone, the damages for the familes pain and suffering alone is enough to casue you pain and suffering. What this means is a potentially big judgement, and plantiffs lawyers willing to work the case ad nauseum to get their cut said judgement, which leads to your lawyer working their ass off (billing your ass off) fighting the case. In a bad business deal, the value of the deal is commensurate with the business you're in, so the judgement should be easy for you to swallow. In a bad skydiving deal (an incident) the value of the jump ($30) is nothing like the money you're going to spend simply defending yourself and winning. If you lose, the difference between the money you made and the money you lost is literally 1,000-fold or more. At the end of the day, the laibility just doesn't add up. Some guys are OK with the risk, but if you're not that kind of guy, being a TI just isn't the business for you. Dave I was not referencing skydiving, rather my mentor was no as he is a whuffo. Just tossed that out there bc I always liked it. As for the liability of being a TI..... although not bullet proof I still like the model I proposed. I will set it up that way when I get my AFF rating. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

When I said that the LLC idea had 'proven' to be less than effective, it was in reference to a TI who had an LLC who got sued, and this guy had no assets to speak of. I think the bigger consideration here is that the pay a TI can expect, and the liability of even defeneding a baseless lawsuit, just don't add up. If you look at it from a risk/reward perspective, if you make $35/jump and as a weekend TI you end up doing 250 tandems a season, you're looking at less than $9000/year. Consider that the above instructor spent in excess of $30,000 defending himself against a suit that was ultimately dropped, it just doesn't add up. At the end of the day, the pay a TI can expect doesn't even justify the risk of defending a baseless lawsuit, let alone the risk of losing and have a judgement brought against you. I forgot to add the LLC bit. I would have prepaid legal and operate within an LLC. Legal taken care of if needed and liability is restricted if, as mentioned above, the TI operates within the parameters of their LLC. You can also layer a couple of LLC's and pass through the money so you have a few layers of protection along with the prepaid. I've been sued a few times and this is how I do it and it has protected me. A wise mentor once told me..... "you haven't made it in business until you have been sued" Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

What were we talking about again? Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

I would go with prepaid legal over insurance. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

I think this is a good idea. It is practical and has a reason. Twilight jumps should be a requirement not jumps an hour after sunset. Twilight jumps have application. There ya go. A reason to show up at the BOD meeting and S&T committee in February to present a cause for change. Two twilight jumps in addition to the two night jumps seem very practical to me. That said, come join the G.L.O.W. event at Elsinore in January. Wingsuit night jumps for women are gonna be happenin. Women Wingsuits Nightjumps... must be the wrong thread with all these guys whining about nightjumps. lol Sounds like a fun event. I still have to do my rw night jump which will either happen at a boogie over the winter or I have to wait until next spring . As for wingsuit night jumps........ not my thing. I think wingsuits are cool but not what I want to focus on. Maybe I will make it to the BOD meeting but I would propose 2 twilight jumps to replace the night jumps Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

I think this is a good idea. It is practical and has a reason. Twilight jumps should be a requirement not jumps an hour after sunset. Twilight jumps have application. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

Well, if it were an award or a boy scout merit badge, I'd agree with you. However, it isn't. It's a LICENSE. Different thing altogether. And if you want an Achievement award, you have to do 2 night jumps. Exactly. But a LICENSE is not an AWARD. Another stupid part of the requirement. You can break both femurs on the first night jump and land in a tree and break your back on the second, and STILL qualify. Agreed... that is a point I made above. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

That didn't really discount anything I was saying. I seriously doubt it was "night time" conditions. It sounds like there was an error in judgement to begin with and the plane should have never taken off...... chain of events begins. Did the plane land safely? If you are asking if the smart move would be land with the plane if one was not comfortable with the conditions, the answer is YES. Scary maybe but just taking off in say... a twin beech on a grass runway is too. The conditions you explain means many people did something that they should not have done... correct? Whatever ya say champ, I guess if YOU would have been there to organize it there wouldn't have been any question...but you weren't & I don't live in your perfect world where everything goes as it should. In my world half the day is in darkness, having the night jump experience is just one less thing I ever have to worry about when walking up to manifest at the end of he day...just keep your lights handy! I'll type slower for ya this time...'It can happen and does' ...things don't always go as planned, that's why you have a reserve. Once again, if you don't wanna do it, then don't...just don't make your insecurity a change of policy for everyone else. Okay "big man"..... see I can be condescending too. I apparently need to type.... I have jumped at night. i liked it and will continue to like it. I know things do not go as planned and if in your world it can get to those conditions that fast then someone screwed up and the plane should not have legally taken off.... right? Once again, the jumpers can land with the plane. On another note.... I appreciate your experienced advice and always have just like I have of other experienced jumpers. I have never had a bad attitude towards those willing to share and I still do not. I have a lot to learn so please, stow the attitude. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

That didn't really discount anything I was saying. I seriously doubt it was "night time" conditions. It sounds like there was an error in judgement to begin with and the plane should have never taken off...... chain of events begins. Did the plane land safely? If you are asking if the smart move would be land with the plane if one was not comfortable with the conditions, the answer is YES. Scary maybe but just taking off in say... a twin beech on a grass runway is too. The conditions you explain means many people did something that they should not have done... correct? Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

Ok I will phrase it a different way.... there is no way you can be on hold long enough that jumpers would be exiting even close to night conditions. So if that is the argument then why not make the qualification jumps right after sunset. Also, the jumpers do not have to jump and shouldn't if not comfortable. Just like if they are not comfortable doing a jump an hour after sunset they shouldn't. I want more qualified I's and jumpers as well but I'm sorry the night jump requirement makes no sense at all. I have yet to read an argument for it that holds water. I don't want to just get rid of requirements. I think we should add some if they make sense. as for me... i will get my D under these rules ... no biggie for me but others are being penalized for a requirement that has no bearing on how skilled or experienced they are. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

Which is why many of us in the sport are saying to raise the standards and not lower them. Keep Night Jump requirements, keep water training requirements and ADD serious Canopy Control requirements. Matt Absofuckinglutely! I doesn't have to be either / or...additional requirements as well as better training regarding he current ones could only have a positive effect in the long run. Making the 'red herring' rating easier to get is just ludicrous. If we want people to be safer, more knowledgeable & well rounded in the sport...show them it's not an elective. One SHOULD have to study & practice skills they may not 'normally' use in order to hold an advanced rating. Anybody can be a Boy Scout and sing songs around the campfire, but reaching the advanced Eagle title takes commitment, dedication and initiative. Shouldn't holding the top license in Skydiving require much more than just having jump numbers and 'basic' skills? (and let's be honest, even night jumping is a pretty 'basic' skill, whether you think you will ever need it or not)) Heck, I even think some basic medical & CPR training should be included...stuff like clear the airway, pressure on the gusher and don't drag him to the hangar face down, by his feet... Not EVERYBODY that wants to be a TM, AFFI, PRO etc. gets to be one, those ratings are respected because they are sought after & earned, showing both skill & knowledge...not just awarded. If ya wanna be a top dog you better know what you're barking about... I know a "few" D's that are idiots in the air. So you are telling me that a C that may not be comfortable with their night vision but is a damn good skydiver should not be an AFF etc. or get a D bc they are being safe about not making a night jump? Then the idiot that does not have near the skills but threw himself out two times at night should get the D and be an instructor. Suppose this same D broke his leg on the second night jump bc of piss poor judgement.... who cares right... he jumped at night twice and didn't die so he "earned" it....... If you never jump at night or plan on doing it then the requirement is dumb. I am all for adding qualifications to make the license process better but the night jump requirement should not be one of them. JMHO Rob It is about the experience and confidence one gains from actually doing the jumps instead of hearing a bonfire story or reading about it. It is also only for the D license, you can be an AFF-I with a C and 6 hours of freefall. What happens when you get in your DZ's 182 and Cinci or Dayton put you on hold for a jumbo and now its "night"? Ride down because you have no idea what to expect in this now uncontrolled scenario or exit with a little confidence since you have experience from two night jumps in a "controlled" environment? The D is the top tier license and, is too easy as it is, now we take away night jumps? The only argument against night jumps I am hearing is the "every one gets a trophy" one. If some one NEVER plans on making night jumps (and then will also probably stop getting on the sunset load) they need not worry about the D license, a C has them covered, hell an A does. Matt First.... why is the plane relevant here? Second.... there is no way anyone would be on hold for that long and bam it's an hour after sunset. Third... below you think a D should be required for an I.... that makes no sense. Read my last post again. The D in that scenario is not the guy I want teaching me. I have jumped at night ... it's cool but not for everyone. Making that a must could keep a great skydiver down especially if you make a D mandatory for an I. I'm sorry but none of the arguments make sense. You are saying the trophy argument is being used I hear "that's how we have done it so it should stay. Again, many things should be changed to better the qualifications but the night jump qualifications make no sense. "experience" is very important but I do not need to make a base jump or an exit from 1k to prepare me in the event that I have to get out then. That seems to be more relevant bc that scenario is not elective. Again.... no way would a person find themselves in a situation that they have to jump an hour after sunset. It cannot happen and if it did then the jumper should have the sense to not jump. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

Doesn't that college you teach at have certain mandatory classes that everyone must take in order to obtain a degree? Speech is usually one of those mandatory classes, even though most college kids will never grow up to do any public speaking. So why make that a mandatory requirement? Why should they have to learn public speaking if they never intend to do any? Isn't it unfair to make them take a speech class when they never intend to use it? They can still become a knowledgeable expert in their chosen specialty field of study, without having a speech class. So what's the point? The college requires it so they can make more money...... Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

Which is why many of us in the sport are saying to raise the standards and not lower them. Keep Night Jump requirements, keep water training requirements and ADD serious Canopy Control requirements. Matt Absofuckinglutely! I doesn't have to be either / or...additional requirements as well as better training regarding he current ones could only have a positive effect in the long run. Making the 'red herring' rating easier to get is just ludicrous. If we want people to be safer, more knowledgeable & well rounded in the sport...show them it's not an elective. One SHOULD have to study & practice skills they may not 'normally' use in order to hold an advanced rating. Anybody can be a Boy Scout and sing songs around the campfire, but reaching the advanced Eagle title takes commitment, dedication and initiative. Shouldn't holding the top license in Skydiving require much more than just having jump numbers and 'basic' skills? (and let's be honest, even night jumping is a pretty 'basic' skill, whether you think you will ever need it or not)) Heck, I even think some basic medical & CPR training should be included...stuff like clear the airway, pressure on the gusher and don't drag him to the hangar face down, by his feet... Not EVERYBODY that wants to be a TM, AFFI, PRO etc. gets to be one, those ratings are respected because they are sought after & earned, showing both skill & knowledge...not just awarded. If ya wanna be a top dog you better know what you're barking about... I know a "few" D's that are idiots in the air. So you are telling me that a C that may not be comfortable with their night vision but is a damn good skydiver should not be an AFF etc. or get a D bc they are being safe about not making a night jump? Then the idiot that does not have near the skills but threw himself out two times at night should get the D and be an instructor. Suppose this same D broke his leg on the second night jump bc of piss poor judgement.... who cares right... he jumped at night twice and didn't die so he "earned" it....... If you never jump at night or plan on doing it then the requirement is dumb. I am all for adding qualifications to make the license process better but the night jump requirement should not be one of them. JMHO Rob Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

Our normal jumps are "HALO". I presume you mean high-alititude. The dividing line should be between things that any skydiver can experience at some time in the normal course of events, versus specialized things that would only happen if you chose to make it happen. Sunset loads can become night jumps, water landings can happen from bad spots, and accuracy can become necessary if you're blown off-airport by winds. So to be an expert, you should know how to deal with those things. On the other hand, no one accidentally ends up in a wingsuit or at 20,000 feet - they had to plan for that to happen in advance, so there are different paths to take to become versed in those subjects. True but since when does a jump that is just barely after sunset have the same darkness level that a "night jump" has. They are not even close. I never understood the argument really? You cannot take off and suddenly find yourself doing a night jump classified by the SIM. I enjoy doing a night jump but it is not even close to doing a jump that is just as the sun is setting or right after. A true night jump is a choice just like the other jumps mentioned. I do not think it should be required. JMHO Well, I read earlier that the USPA requirements for a night jump are that it is carried out between the hours of sunset and sunrise. I don't know if this is correct. If it is, then at my position on the Earth (about 50 miles north of London), you have about 30 minutes between sunset and the end of civil twighlight, where it is still plenty bright for most of that time. The street lights come on at the end of civil twighlight. I'm not overly keen on lobs in the inky blackness of a New Moon, but I'd have no problem going for a 'night jump' 10 minutes after sunset. I've done that many times, without having to blindly grope my way back to the packing hangar... I believe a night jump must be an hour after sunset.... minimum. edited to add SIM 6-4 night jump requirements 5. Night jumps to meet license requirements and to establish world records must take place between one hour after official sunset and one hour before official sunrise. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

I haven't seen a good answer either. Then neither of you are reading all the posts. Hey lets just let every one have a "D" license, just cause, no standards needed, every one gets a trophy! Matt Ya! I want a trophy.... a big one that says I am an awesome skydiver. Seriously though... the other standards make total sense. I think the night jump is a grey area and can be argued either way. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

Our normal jumps are "HALO". I presume you mean high-alititude. The dividing line should be between things that any skydiver can experience at some time in the normal course of events, versus specialized things that would only happen if you chose to make it happen. Sunset loads can become night jumps, water landings can happen from bad spots, and accuracy can become necessary if you're blown off-airport by winds. So to be an expert, you should know how to deal with those things. On the other hand, no one accidentally ends up in a wingsuit or at 20,000 feet - they had to plan for that to happen in advance, so there are different paths to take to become versed in those subjects. True but since when does a jump that is just barely after sunset have the same darkness level that a "night jump" has. They are not even close. I never understood the argument really? You cannot take off and suddenly find yourself doing a night jump classified by the SIM. I enjoy doing a night jump but it is not even close to doing a jump that is just as the sun is setting or right after. A true night jump is a choice just like the other jumps mentioned. I do not think it should be required. JMHO Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

I bet he's not

Really? I disagree with " Pilot is the sportiest of the three by far." Ditto. I've flown all 3 in varying sizes and owned various safire's and a pilot 124. IMO the pilot is the least sportiest of the 3. I totally agree. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com

Really? I disagree with " Pilot is the sportiest of the three by far." I would say hands down the Safire 2. I like the Pilot but Icarus just does things better in my opinion. Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com