georger

I guess I need to take that as a threat.

So that would be 1995 + 1 yr 2 months + couple of weeks which makes it Feb-March of 1996 when you found out who Cooper/Himmelsbach were. In May 2008 you said: "4. Tosaws Book was published in 1984 - but I did not see or read that book my self until 1997, but Duane probably did...he just didn't bring it around me or I didn't know what it was about. 5. Norjack did not make the streets until 1986 - this is the book he had at our house, but I didn't know what the book was about...I have told that story before so need to retell it. (May 2008) So which is it, 1996 or 1997 when you read Tosaw's book? Your new date as of tonight is now early in 1996. And why would you have to go to a library when you already had NORJACK in your house (since 1986?)? I guess I should assume you just didnt know what a book titled NORJAK was, if it was even out on your shelf to see. I am confused. Can you see how your versions are difficult to follow because they conflict? Im just searching for the truth like you. As for what's cooking on your stove - how would I know? I will say I am not taking sides in your debate with Jerry Thomas. He says one thing. You say another. Nobody has presented any hard data yet, as Snowmman would say. But, I am wondering if there is ever going to be any space open on this forum to discuss DB Cooper, since you dominate EVERYTHING here daily. Or should we once again just consider going elsewhere? The last time you relented you started right back up because you felt you "had" to. You dont allow any objective discussion of anything here. You tease and dont present real facts substantiated by any thing - no data at all. I know you have your fans here, but are you going to allow us to discuss DB Cooper or not? It's really that simple, as I see it.

There has never been any doubt what he said when he said "I'm Dan Cooper". It was how he said it --- he cooed out the Coooooooper. "When Jo Weber failed to understand what her husband was talking about, he became angry and shouted "Oh, let it die with me." (Associated Press 2000) "*Skyjack71 didn't know who Dan Cooper was, but she can clearly remember the name because he pronounced it in a peculiar way. When she continued to challenge Duane on the confession (telling him that his story was non-sense), Duane cursed loudly. Having heard Duane getting upset and thinking he was having trouble dealing with his pain and the idea of his ultimate death, the nurses rushed in and immediately gave him a shot of morphine." ( safecrackingPLF Dec 20, 2007, 10:16 AM ) But not knowing who DB Cooper even was, Jo was on the phone to Himmelsbach a few short months later - she went right to the top without contacting anyone else! No intermediaries. That's her story. But she posted here a few months ago she and Duane discussed McCoy and Cooper at Virginia Beach. So which version of Jo's story is correct? Whatever the case is, Jo decided not to honor Duane request made in anguish: ""Oh, let it die with me." Jo was in fact on the phone to Himmelsbach a few short months later. If she didnt have any idea who DB Cooper was how in hell did she know who Ralph Himmelsbach was! ? And, if she didnt know who Cooper was how could she judge Duane was talking "nonsense", to turn right around and call lead Cooper investigator Himmelsbach about it, in violation of her husband's request that she should let his nonsense which amounted to nothing to Jo, DIE WITH HIM!

If "the Tom" who excavated our dog in hopes of finding Duane buried something with the dog is Tom Kaye, (I assume this is what Jerry was hinting at)then he is aware that when we did this the body was in a plastic bag inside of a hard plastic storage container. The dog was buried in 1994 and the body retrieved in 2001. What!?

I have no idea. However it does seem a bit strange to me one person on this forum Copywrites everything she says here, on a forum owned by someone else, in So Afrika if that is correct? Who owns the rights to Jo's posts? Jo or DZ.com? Could Jo sue DZ.com or the reverse if there was a dispute over ownership or rights or useage? I assume DZ.com has thought about this and has an attorney? If you quoted one of Jo's posts in some other forum or in a publication would you have to pay her royalties? Are Jo's posts tantamount to her songs or manuscripts etc for which she has sole proprietor rights? Jo always uses her her business address as her email address when she posts here or sends PM's. Has Jo copywrited her name? Some authors do especially if their names become a product in and of themselves, or a household word, etc. Maybe 377 is here because he's her lawyer watching everything for Jo? I dont know. Maybe Quade is Jo's paid employee. I dont know. Maybe its all pretense meant to convey importance and authority. I dont know. I havent checked but I doubt anyone else who posts in the whole of Dropzone.com in all the forums copywrites their posts? It's all very off-putting for some reason. And it has always killed any idea that this is an open forum. This is Jo's forum. Dropzone.com has seen to that. I guess we are all privileged that she allows us to be here.

So, what you're sayin' is... If you were me, you would just STFU? Sounds like good advise for you even if ya weren't me! Funny how when there is no street cop around (especially on off shore forums) how abuse starts and all kinds of wild claims begin to get hurled around, by some. It defines the free Internet jungle which is sorely close to losing its Liberty and its free meals at the expense of others - So, let me clue you into the fact that a producer for National Public Radio has been reading this socalled "forum" for some time, and other public officials and interested parties, and everyone here is on record, as is Dropzone.com itself. Hi Quade! So keep posting suckers. You're on Candid Camera. And here is Jo's latest unwanted PM. Please read this / I am not posting From: skyjack71 Date Sent: Jun 20, 2009, 10:22 PM Did you read Jerry's post? He called me a liar AFTER he extracted the exact locations of the creeks . I think you know that the words he used are not part of my vocabulary - I have said in the forum that I thought you were FBI or a writer or both. I gave Jerry the location of the creeks (their names and exactly where they converge and how far they are into the light to reach the tributary. I do hope you are a scholar and a gentleman and will do the right thing...if you wish to talk to me I do NOT have Caller ID and I do not record my conversations. I will provide you with my number if I can be assured it will not be made public or given to anyone without my permission. My security here has already been compromised with something unrelated to Cooper. I have been buying and taking food to the homeless who live in the woods in our area. I never thought I would live to see people actually hungery and begging for food in America. Yesterday we hit a record high in temperatures and since I spent 6 to 7 hours at the ER last night I was not able to take ice and water to them today. You have my permission to record your conversation with me - I have given that to no one else except a man in Ca. and at one time Sluggo. Please make no mention of this in the forum and you can email me if you want my phone number and /or if you want NO COMMUNICATIONS from me. I will honor your decision and will keep it private. Homes4ubyjo@aol.com Copyright©2008 by Jo Weber Can Jo Copyright and Own things published on DZ.com, an off shore (whatever this thing is)? Can Jo use Dropzone.com for her own commercial ends? Is that what DZ.com is about? Maybe its time to call the Federal Trade Commission and ask. I think I will. I mean we arent doing DB Cooper so let's do DB Dropzone. com. Maybe other Federal Agencies including Homeland Security would be interested. So all you little ayatollahs get your shit together. Its Father's Day and Quade has been missing too damned long!

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Thanks.

And do the women also get told to show respect to women, twardo? And do any of those women who need to be respected simply because of their gender... use their position as women to manipulate others more than they might otherwise be able to? ..well no of course you don't need to answer that. And the cornerstone of Jo's case is Duane said, "I am DB Cooper" LET IT DIE WITH ME". But here is Jo not fulfilling her beloved husband's request but prosecuting her own claims for her own benefit, all these years later. I guess she never did reply to Duane: "I will keep your request. I love you." What is that!? How does that stack up ethically? I wonder how this washes out on a legal level? Could Jo "be compelled" to testify against Duane now that Duane is dead, based on Jo's case against her former husband? Could Jo be held as a material witness and charged, for witholding evidence or making claims which turn out false? These things come up in the real world where forums are no protection! Duane told Jo in confidence he was DB Cooper. Jo has violated her husband's request and last wishes expressed on his death bed, along with his confession and bequest. That is a direct violation of basic tenants and ethics in most major religions. We see the self-same tactics demonstrated here. How did this become Jo's case? She says it was Duane's case! Actually, the case belongs to the US Attorney and the Dept of Justice, I think? It seems to me Jo has spun a web that may go far beyond only "wanting the truth". There are very real legal issues here beyond ethics. The DB Cooper case is still an active living legal matter, with Jo Weber making what may be rather serious claims against rather serious people, the FBI for one ! That does take guts, as one poster has noted tonight. Jo says flatly: "Duane was DB Cooper". That speaks for itself. It's like someone parachuting into a tornado! Why would anyone here egg Jo on to make such a commitment? That is sick.

The bullying of an elderly woman......you're seriously okay with that...for ANY reason? Elderly? How old do you think Jo is? Just give us the number Einstein.

I am almost at a loss for words here - I have emailed Jerry Thomas and told him never to contact me again. If you doubt the truth of that just ask him. I wont be put in the middle of this! Everything he told you is nonsense. Utter nonsense. That you would use it and involve innocent people to get your way or gain some personal advantage is scorolous. You must feel victorious at everyone's expense. I have no choice but to leave the forum. It's crazy here. Congrats. Georger I am truely sorry I had to do that, I was not trying to be victorious at your expense (you had told me NOT to PM you). Jerry has had a field day at the expense of my sanity - put yourself in my place when Jerry calls me a liar many times over. He didn't care who he hurt as long as he could make me look bad and what he did was beyond (using your words) to get his way and gain some personal advantage. That's your problem, isn't it. You did not HAVE to do anything - ever. Your feuds with the FBI, Himmeslbach, Thomas, etc have nothing to do with me. You create firestorms for everyone. That is your nature and yo do not know how to let go or when to stop. But the rest of us do and "that" is your only asset.

Are you going to deny that you claimed that Georger was a billionaire who created the first DNA labs? Georger: If what Jerry said is true about you then I am sorry for revealing your position, but try to understand that I have been force to make my stand because of Jerry's accusations. Nothing I have ever said needs to be defended by a lie... I am almost at a loss for words here - I have emailed Jerry Thomas and told him never to contact me again. If you doubt the truth of that just ask him. I wont be put in the middle of this! Everything he told you is nonsense. Utter nonsense. That you would use it and involve innocent people to get your way or gain some personal advantage is scorolous. You must feel victorious at everyone's expense. I have no choice but to leave the forum. It's crazy here. Congrats.

map 377 See attached of pdx. Were these the only runways in 1971? Can you identify any of these?

http://cooper71.com/ And, yes, in case you are wondering, I AM jealous! Enjoy, Sluggo_Monster Again I think the url listed above isnt even comparable to yours - yours is so much better there is no comparison. I dont know why you even wonder about this - and I seriously doubt there ever can be anything better than you website. Nobody has done 1/1000th the work you have to even have a website. So you should not worry. I do have several constructive ideas, if you're open. (a) I think you should pull all the vital maps and transcripts/docs out from their present location and list them separately under their own catagory-header in the left side panel at your website. Group them together and make them easier to find rather than at the end of the long map list where they currently are. That would give them the prominence they deserve, because when it comes to research it is the Pi and NWA transcripts and NWA and FBI flight path maps that are most vital. That's my feeling. Its an organisational matter as I see it. (b) You are fond of sectional maps due to your aviation background. I tend to want topographical maps that show terrain clearly, because when it comes to searches topographical detail is vital.. as I see it. Sectional maps just dont convey terrain at a glance as easily as terrain maps do and when it comes to searches you want to be able to see aspects of terrain easily-quickly. Half of the Cooper story is about where Cooper bailed and that is a story about terrain. I think you should make a wide large topo map from SEA to PDX and west beyond T-Bar and east beyond the Washougal, and overlay the nwa grid on it (nice thin to medium lines w appropriate colors). I know you already made a Goggle satellite map but its hard to see any real topo detail on it. My reasoning is as follows: Two vital aspects of the Cooper story are terrain and weather. The story of weather in this case is directly related to terrain and topographical regions, ie valley west of the foothills prior to the Cascades and then the Cascades themselves all of which determine the weather patterns in the area of V23. The NWA grid overlayed on top of a good terrain map would be of great value and look great. That's my opinion. Im attaching your current remake of the nwa map ...

OK Jo, another big claim: a creek that doesn't show on any map. It would literally amaze me if that statement were proven true. With radar topo mapping satellites giving precise elevations of every square foot of the US how was this creek missed? You have made your claim. Now give your proof. Google Earth should show it clearly, unless they too are part of the conspiracy. 377 Forums also disappear on maps - they were never there.

First off you have no reason whatever to be jealous of the other website. It's nothing. Im glad to finally have a chance to listen to Galen Cook. Coast to Coast. Pole to Pole. Galaxy to Galaxy. Thanks for sharing this. Its always good to know what the enemy is doing! Let us know if they discover the wheel and fire.

OK Jo, so what was the "OUT and OUT LIE" and who told it? If you dont wish to ID the liar at least tell us what the lie was. Otherwise it's just another Jo tease. "Your guys"??? Who are they and what have you tasked them with? At least tell us their qualifications and assigned mission if you don't wish to ID them personally. What do they expect to learn from this new person they have found? Time and time again you promise to deliver blockbuster evidence, but so far the promises are just teases. Time to DELIVER Jo, starting right now. 377 I have never been able to figure Jo out, at least the part that contradicts the "other part", which contradicted the "part before the other part", which contradicted the part before that, whatever "that" is! (Its what ran me out of psychiatry into the arms of house painting, which is sure and simple, at least it used to be! Im only kidding). One minute Jo is chasing down obscure details and nailing good evidence, eg. Finegold passenger on 305. Jo contributed more to that than anyone else here and she actually wrote the guy, then talked to him........ gathering actual evidence. Jo has made a career out of that. Jo may have things the FBI and Sluggo dont even have! God only knows what Jo has, or doesn't have. But Jo does suck people in and is likable to many. Maybe its her sympathy card. I honestly dont know. (Lots of vets remember old people who used to throw grenades so to some Jo isnt an automatic winner.) Then the next minute Jo is off chasing MKULTRA and Lee Harvey Oswald claiming Duane had some connection there! Pure crazy nonsense. (Hell I knew Lee Harvey Oswald. Lee Harvey never knew Duane Weber! ) I could claim that with the same legitimacy Jo claims Duane knew Abraham Lincoln and expects anyone to believe it? It's either crazy, or it's a ruse for something deeper. At the end of the day, WHO! is Jo Weber, to be making all of these claims ands refusing evidence she says she has? Whatever Jo Weber is her train wrecks have derailed everything too many times and clogged up the works for everyone, actually sent people running for cover (the old woman throwing grenades again), and I have ceased to care. Wherever Jo goes, nuthin grows or lives to tell the tale! Jo Weber is DB Cooper. That is as close to DB Cooper as most of us will ever get. It's been a honor knowing you DB Weber!

I want to thank those that responded concerning my posts about turbulence & winds. I have received some great comments - all very helpful. The two pages of notes which accompanied the NWA DZ map explain how the map was made and what it means, in detail. From this alone we know that (a) the map was not the work of one person but a group of people working together, and (b) the map took weather factors into consideration and allows for turbulence factors. And, NWA had on its staff at the time true experts in the field of aviation turbulence and wind drift analysis. I am posting the NWA chart and the two pages of notes which accompanied it - This should put the matter in proper perspective for any future references to it. I will be happy to answer any questions I can. Others may chime in also as they see fit - Take a good look at the charts I am posting. Thanks.

Thank you, sir. Can you comment at all about winds, that day or otherwise? Here's a nice topo map. The black area encloses where the plane had to be (somewhere). The white area is the valley before foothills to the Cascades. The issue is turbulence in these areas - especially seasonal turbulence (surface to 20k). You must be having a good laugh up there about all of this.

NO THANKS! not interested.

I don't understand why you don't just pick up a phone and ASK the Co-pilot while he is STILL alive. If I did it - none of you would believe me and I wouldn't know how to ask the question or understand the answer - that takes another pilot of 727's during the early 70's. There are a few things you will need to know when you contact Rat. #1. Either the FBI or someone has better and more decisive WX data than we know, or a lot of people have been fudging for years. Let's go back to a few basics in this case. #2 The socalled NWA Search Map is attached. Take a look at this map. All drift lines are symmetrically linear in one direction, ie. the 225-235 degree angle Ckret endorsed. Now, either whoever drew this map had data to justify this depiction, or he did not. Because in the real world of weather nothing moves in straight lines. And what happened to Cooper is directly connected to what the winds were. #3. Who drew the NWA search map and how? #3A. John Doe a member of the Boeing Company Sky Diving Club did! We have no background on who John Doe was or his background or who he worked with, or anything. Except Ckret tells us it was one individual (in Ckret's post below). You will see Ckret begns by saying: "This is a minor issue, and doesn't add anything new, but I wanted to put a point on it, since it changes my perception of how the search went down." Ckret's comment above may be the understatment of the last 37 years, if what I think is true, because Cooper went where the winds took him and winds are the nexus which ties everything together which begins with John Doe's NWA search map and the drift he he predicted (based on what?). If the winds are wrong, everything is wrong. If John Doe got the winds right, then everything is right...

I don't understand why you don't just pick up a phone and ASK the Co-pilot while he is STILL alive. If you are talking about Rataczak I dont have his phone number. You can PM me with it or pass it through someone else and I will call him. But, I would appreciate it if you did not call him and complicate this, for me. I dont want this bollixed by a bunch of people calling Rat and asking him questions they dont even know the reasoning about. I am sure there are people here who would do that and spoil things (again!). Or maybe you and Sluggo can take this over and do it!

This is getting very interesting Georger and thanks for reviving the topic and adding new material. I have always wondered if Cooper jumped much later than the pressure bump and there is a chance he did. Still, we have to deal with the money find which argues that the bump was coincident with his exit. I used to read these weather maps on our fishing boats. We received them from the USCG over HF freqs. We used special radio fax machines to print them as they were being transmitted. Some of the early machines used a sparking stylus to burn the fax image onto special paper on a rotating drum. Later, thermal printers became the norm. Now the weather faxes can be decoded by a computer sound card and stored as images for later viewing. The ones we received were sent from USCG radio station NMC at Pt Reyes CA. It was always a thrill to receive a fax from thousands of miles away. Once in a while a USCG radioman would write a handwritten greeting on the fax like "Happy Thanksgiving from NMC." I see nasty weather depicted on your map Georger, but I don't know much about land weather where you get much more wind-surface/terrain interaction than you do at sea. At sea you were really looking for scrunched together isobars (high pressure gradients) and other indicators of high winds. Turbulence, wind shear and vertical winds weren't much of a worry to a boat. We also looked for approaching low pressure fronts. What do the pilots say about what Georger's weather map shows? Orange, who were you rooting for in the Cricket matches once your home team was out of the running? 377 The regional office of this NOAA district issued 2 sets of maps each day, one at 0000 Zulu and one at 1200 Zulu. Each set consisted of a surface map, high altitude navigational, and perhaps a mid level map also, all based on recording stations in each region. In addition various weather data sets were exchanged or made available to various entities including SEA and PDX. We are seeking the high altitude charts and any other charts which would complete the set for 11-24-71. The chart I have posted has been examined by some meteorologists who are also digging for records. Hopfully there will be more to come when more is known.

I previously posted the map attached. This surface map is but one of 4-6 maps NOAA issued on 11-24-71, which show a cold front moving into the "Pre Cascade Turbulence Corridor". (not my terms) (I am also informed that our friend Solderlind was in fact an expert on aviation wind sheer and published a number of papers, some of which are still available). I learned a lot today.

Does anyone know what "memo" Snowmman is talking about ? Is he referring to the NWA transcript Sluggo released for Ckret? [edit] The reason Im asking: In spite of Snowmman, Sluggo, and Ckret almost insisting flaps were at 30* when Cooper bailed (in turbulence) there is nothing in the NWA or PI transcripts to support this, and in fact there are citations which deny it. From the transcripts: flaps at 30* are last cited at 7:45, 305 began its climb out of 7000 at 7:48 and reported flaps at 15*, and 15* flaps continue to be reported at 8:01, 8:10, and thereafter. So there is nothing in the transcripts which supports 30* during the supposed bailout time period, unless Cooper bailed at 7:45 or before... The 30* flap issue began here with Snowmman reciting Tosaw's book which claims 30# flaps at 8:10-8:13. Ckret then wondered about this but had no firm answers that I know of. Ckret then released some "memo"? Following this everyone claimed 30* at 8:10-8:13. (I must have missed this "memo" whatever it was and I cannot find it!) If the "memo" Snow is talking about is the NWA Transcript Ckret/Sluggo released then I must differ because there is nothing in the NWA Transcript which says 30* after 7:45 and the NWA Transcript says: " 2210 (8:10pm pst) Crew reported oscillation of cabin rate of climb indicator. This probably due to HJ weight on stairs with stairs extending further, resulting effect on cabin pressure. May be best estimate of when he exited airplane. MSPFO advised crew that range to RNO now looked good (airplane now at 10000’,170k, gear DOWN, flaps 15*, FF 4000lb/hour/engine. TAT –7*C. MSPFO calculated TAS and range from this data. (nwa) Flaps at 15*." So we have turbulence and 15* flaps at 8:10. Comments? Maybe Rat was forced to go to 15* flaps due to the turbulence? Where and what is the 'memo" Snowmman/Sluggo were talking about? *If 30# flaps is the hallmark of Cooper bailing, then from the data I have Cooper bailed 7:45 or before!