snowmman

I believe this account is from a 1-0 of RT Delaware. from http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52378&page=6 Mentions the "indigenous" rucksack which I had mentioned before. This guy carried two knives. Folding, plus a big knife. Funny how pencil flares were standard gear too. PRC-25 radio mentioned. "The rucksacks were "Montagnard striker" indig soft sacks". They carried 5 days of rations. Sometimes 10 day missions. I like photos of the Montagnards and Nungs. (ST Alabama photo) I think it's not well understood how young some of those guys there were. I attached two random pictures of 'nards with some US. Last pic is RT Hawaii from the RT Delaware 1-0 MACVSOG generally had two elements; a. reconaissance teams RT sometimes called spike teams ST. I've heard a differention made between an RT and an ST. One was heavier than the other. I never heard the differention when I got to FOB-2. We used ST up to about May 1968, afterwards RT. They teams were supposed to have 3 Americans and 9 indig, usually Montagnards at FOB-2. The RT could be broken up into a smaller force. We once went in with 2 Americans and 4 indig. b. Hornet Force or Hatchet Force: a platoon size reaction element with 4 Americans and about 40 indig. They were to fight, not look. c. In addition, there were other elements which were snatching NVA prisoners. They would carry AK's and walk the trails till they met an NVA patrol. You'll see RT Maine is so armed. I never saw a team go out armed like that. You'll see the troops are remarkably light compared to today. Commo was via one PRC-25. Each American carried a strobe and a couple of pencil flares and a small florscent orange cloth panel. We had some little emergency commo device to talk to a pilot but I never used it. Each American had a "Kat Code" with him used to encode voice commo with the relay sites. We communicated 3x a day. (I sometimes turned the radio off..didn't want to hear the kibbitzing). We were working on 10km sq grids labled "letter-number" ("X-3", "H-1") ...they would go ballistic if you went outside your grid. We had a map only for our grid (though once on a brightlight I carried a map all the way from H-1 over to Ben Het in case we had to exfil ourseles). We carried a small section of rope and a D ring to make up a rapelling harness (which could be hooked onto a McGuire rig to let 5 men come out on 4 ropes if needed). Missions were for 5 days although we once went on a 10 day mission down to the junction of Highway 96 (Ho Chi Minh Trail) and Highway 110 (Sihanuk trail) in Laos. We usually would run 2 missions a month, sometimes 3. But that depended on the weather. From May-September the rains came; it was really hard to get choppers over the Annamite Cordillera into Laos during that time. We'd fly from FOB-2 up to Dak To day after Day to await a break in the weather. After each mission we'd usually get 3-5 days off. The rucksacks were "Montgnard striker" indig soft sacks (see photo of Yuk below). We had 5 days of rations..usually dry LRRP rations (just coming out); occasionally a can of c-ration peaches, and the striker "rice issue." I carried a standard Army poncho and a small indig ponch and a standard cammie Army poncho liner. At night, we'd rendevous (RON) very close to one-another. I would spread the big poncho on the ground, cover it with the liner, put the small poncho under the head and under the big one, fold half over me. I could sleep that way through the most pounding rain. We carried a small pocket knife, usually a big knife (mine was a Randall), 4 to 8 grenades HE, some rigged with 30" or 1' time fuses which could be tossed behind if we were running. We carried several colors of smoke, each man usually had smoke. I carried several safety pins, a sewing kit, some rubber bands too...never knew when they would be needed. Always had insect repellent (great against leeches) and cough syrup. (Summer 68 someone banned codine cough syrup because grunts were using it to get high. It really put us in danger). water purification pills. Sometimes I carried Dextro-anphetamine. Only took it once next to the Ho Chi Minh trail and was awake for 3 days; never took it again. Two canteens. bandages and small first aid kit and a morphine shot. The harness was interesting. Look at the RT Idaho photo and you'll see two are wearing WWII BAR belts. They were by far the most comfortable and everyone got them. CAR-15 mags fit sideways perfectly, 4 per pouch. there were 3 pouches on each side of the BAR belt with a connecting strap at the back. Sometimes the guys would cut off the back pouch on either side and have a canteen pouch sewn on in its place. I had my knife on the back strap. 1st mission coming out in Mcguire rigs (we called them "strings") I had a D ring hooked into the rig and it stretched and broke the back strap. My hand-made Randall fell 2,000'. Randall sent me another one which I still have...but, I just saw an identical knife on e-bay sell for $2,000. The uniform at FOB-2 when on an operation was plain unadorned green jungle fatigues and boots. No markings. We usually had a green scarf around the neck, used to towel off and soaked in insect repellent it prevent leeches from crawling into the uniform. I also soaked the upper parts of my boots in insect repellent and the belt line. I wore my boots without socks and no T-shirt or underwear. We wore bounnie hats. I knew one yard who wore a helment (Johnnie..see Dahling's site) but he'd been hit in the head once and liked the protection. We carried a pair of gloves to use in rapelling or riding the ropes out of a tight LZ-hover hole. The arm of choice was the CAR-15. It was great, you could write your name with it on full auto. We usually carried 16 20-round mags. We also carried M-79's (2). M-79'ers carried 30 rounds, mix of HE and Flechette. Some guys would saw off the stock and front barrel of a M-79, load a flechette round and hang it around their neck as an "ambush breaker." I thought this was a bit much. For prisoner snatch missions we'd carry a silenced STEN gun. Sometimes a silenced .22. We once carried a M-60 on a brightlight though. Some guys like the Swedish K but god-help you if you start to fiddle with it with the mag in; Jimmy marshall put 3 rounds into the club at FOB-2 once. Hi-Standard Silenced .22: Originally made during WWII for OSS; 3,000 later made for CIA in early 1950’s. There are no originals on the market. They’re worth a fortune. I've seen some in Afghanistan. Good for killing guard dogs I suppose. I carried one on my first mission...Terry Dahling was the 1-0. NVA passed close enough to grab them by the ankles. I don't know what I'd have done had I shot somebody with that thing. .22 long rifle...good for 10' maybe?

Many aircraft as part of this mission. Waugh flew as forward air control with pilot Major Alexander. I thought it was a good account of a aircraft+ground force operation by SF. Account is Waugh's. http://www.macvsog.cc/target_oscar-8.htm Waugh's callsign here was "Mustang" US aircraft shot down during the op: (which included B-52 bombers) 2 CH-46 heli transport 1 H-UID heli gunship 1 F4C Phantom jet 1 A-1E skyraider (prop) Waugh flew back from Khe Sanh with "Mustachio" on a H-34 heli to rescue 3 vietnamese crew members (I believe they were from a crashed H-34 heli) Another good write by B. Waugh, to get some of his frame of mind, is here: (from 2008) http://www.ourexcellentadventures.com/2008/03/23/to-the-sf-guys-you-know-who-you-are-from-billy-waugh/ "I have never heard a Special Forces soldier say, when assigned a very difficult mission, “I am not going to do that,” for I have always heard the SF Team say, “Lets get it on, lets go.”" Mustachio was not US. He was VNAF Pilot Dau Uy Nguyen Van Hoagn. Read this about another amazing Mustachio exploit: (RT is recon team) "Mustachio few on of the most remarkable chopper rescues in history in 1966. An RT had been hit at night and managed to slip away; but burden with several wounded, it seem certain the enemy would catch the team members before daylight. U.S. Hueys could’t fly in darkness, and neither were the Vietnamese H-34s supposed to, but Mustachio said he would give it a try. Since this is all but suicidal, he went alone, taking up his Kingbee without a co-pilot and doorgunner. Despite groundfire and complete darkness Mustachio found the team and got members out alive. “How he ever did it, I don’t know,” Scotty Crerar said. “It came out with 88 holes in it and the pilot’s thumb shot off. The aircraft never few again, but it got the team out.” Mustachio later died in another SOG mission. source: http://state-of-flux.blogspot.com/2005/07/let-them-participate-in-their-own.html referencing John Plaster's book "SOG: a Photo History of the Secret War". Plaster did 3 tours. The opening pages of the book are good read: http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Photo-History-Secret-Wars/dp/1581600585#reader Click/right arrow thru "First Pages" there. Plaster bio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Plaster or better: http://www.ultimatesniper.com/Docs/35.PDF ..It's interesting to see how different people's lives played out post-Vietnam. My point: There are people labeled "heroes" where everyone knows their name because they're the historians, the storytellers. There are plenty of others, less well known. It was a big war.

I quoted a book of his as saying his height was 5'9" the reference is here, 2nd paragraph, page 147 http://books.google.com/books?id=GdCKyGhie_QC&pg=PA147&dq=%22billy+waugh%22+five+foot some confirmation: The attached photo is him with a group of men in 1970. He's in the center, no shirt staring at camera. You can see some are shorter, some are taller. I think the 5'9" is accurate (edit) This second picture from 1964 shows him smoking a cigarette

occasionally I run into links for docs or copies of books that are interesting that I know you guys won't find, but reflect a broader view, more research. (i.e. books) so will post Online copy of the book The Green Berets in Vietnam, 1961-71 By Francis John Kelly, Institute of Land Warfare (Association of the United States Army) published 1991 http://www.history.army.mil/books/vietnam/90-23/90-231.htm http://www.history.army.mil/books/vietnam/90-23/90-232.htm http://www.history.army.mil/books/vietnam/90-23/90-233.htm http://www.history.army.mil/books/vietnam/90-23/90-234.htm http://www.history.army.mil/books/vietnam/90-23/90-235.htm http://www.history.army.mil/books/vietnam/90-23/90-236.htm http://www.history.army.mil/books/vietnam/90-23/90-237.htm http://www.history.army.mil/books/vietnam/90-23/90-238.htm

Note the US SF are embedded with South Vietnamese troops here, in 1965. army account, from http://www.history.army.mil/books/vietnam/90-23/90-234.htm In July 1965 fighting took place near Camp Bong Son, Binh Dinh Province, II Corps, involving four Special Forces men and the 883d Vietnamese Regional Forces Company. The action bears mention because it illustrates the demands often made on Special Forces men in South Vietnam and reflects the considerable ability demonstrated by many Green Berets in combat. The following Page 94 account was written by Major Paris D. Davis, then a captain, who participated in the action. We had just finished a successful raid on a Viet Cong Regimental Headquarters, killing upwards of one hundred of the enemy. The raid had started shortly after midnight. We had four Americans and the 883rd Vietnamese Regional Force Company participating in the raid. After the raid was completed, the first platoon of the 883rd company broke and started to run just about the same time I gave the signal to pull in the security guarding the river bank. I went after the lead platoon, MSG Billy Waugh was with the second platoon, SSG David Morgan was with the third platoon, and SP4 Brown was with the fourth platoon. It was just beginning to get light (dawn) when I caught up to the first platoon and got them organized, and we were hit by automatic machine gun fire. It was up front and the main body of the platoon was hit by the machine gun. I was hit in the hand by a fragment from a hand grenade. About the time I started moving the platoon back to the main body, I heard firing and saw a wounded friendly VN soldier running from the direction of the firing. He told me that the remainder of the 883rd company was under attack. I moved the platoon I had back towards the main body. When I reached the company, the enemy had it pinned down in an open field with automatic weapons and mortar fire. I immediately ordered the platoon I had to return the fire, but they did not—only a few men fired. I started firing at the enemy, moving up and down the line, encouraging the 883rd company to return the fire. We started to receive fire from the right flank. I ran down to where the firing was and found five Viet Cong coming over the trench line. I killed all five, and then I heard firing from the left flank. I ran down there and saw about six Viet Cong moving toward our position. I threw a grenade and killed four of them. My M16 jammed, so I shot one with my pistol and hit the other with my M16 again and again until he was dead. MSG Waugh started to yell that he had been shot in the foot. I ran to the middle of the open field and tried to get MSG Waugh, but the Viet Cong automatic fire was too intense, and I had to move back to safety. By this time SSG Morgan, who was at the edge of the open field, came to. He had been knocked out by a VC mortar round. He told me that he was receiving sniper fire. I spotted the sniper, and shot him in his camouflaged man-hole. I crawled over and dropped a grenade in the hole killing two additional Viet Cong. I was able at this time to make contact with the FAC, CPT Bronson and SGT Ronald Dies. CPT Bronson diverted a flight of 105's and had them drop their bombs on the enemy's position. I ran out and pulled SSG Morgan to safety. He was slightly wounded, and I treated him for shock. The enemy again tried to overrun our position. I picked up a machine gun and started firing. I saw four or five of the enemy drop and the remaining ones break and run. I then set up the 60mm mortar, dropped about five or six mortars down the tube, and ran out and tried to get MSG Waugh. SSG Morgan was partially recovered and placing machine gun fire into the enemy position. I ran out and tried to pick up MSG Waugh, who had by now been wounded four times in his right Page 95 foot. I tried to pick him up, but I was unable to do so. I was shot slightly in the back of my leg as I ran for cover. By this time CPT Bronson had gotten a flight of F4's. They started to drop bombs on the enemy. I ran out again, and this time was shot in the wrist—but I was able to pick up MSG Waugh and carried him fireman style, in a hail of automatic weapon fire, to safety. I called for a MEDEVAC for MSG Waugh. When the MEDEVAC came, I carried MSG Waugh about 200 yards up over a hill. As I put MSG Waugh on the helicopter, SFC Reinburg got off the ship and ran down to where the 883rd company was located. He was shot through the chest almost immediately. I ran to where he was and gave him first aid. With SSG Morgan's help, I pulled him to safety. The enemy again tried to overrun our position. I picked up the nearest weapon and started to fire. I was also throwing grenades. I killed about six or seven. I was then ordered to take the troops I had and leave. I informed the colonel in the C&C ship that I had one wounded American and one American I didn't know the status of. I informed the colonel that I would not leave until I got all the Americans out. SFC Reinburg was MEDEVACed out. The fighting continued until mid-afternoon. We could not get the company we had to fight. The enemy tried to overrun our position two more times. We finally got reinforcements, and with them I was able to go out and get SP4 Brown who lay out in the middle of the field some fourteen hours from the start until the close of the battle. Major Davis received the Silver Star and the Purple Heart for his efforts in this action.

I'm assuming people have read all that's out there mentioning Waugh. It's fair to ask why he's considered a SF hero. There's a lot. However, it's fair to say, that of many profiles for a possible Cooper, he's a good fit for a profile. I've attached a recent interview. It's interesting to read his point of views on SF operations and training. It's really interesting to think of Cooper musing in the same way. (planning etc). His books are better, but not all of them are freely available on Google Books. Maybe I can post some accounts of when he got shot up. He was involved with a lot of serious operations, with a lot of death dealt out on both sides. I have a variety of questions and thoughts. But it's not really fair to post them. I'd rather ask Billy questions. Minimally we could find out a lot about Vietnam jumps. I would think he would enjoy a sharp discussion on the Cooper topic, or just Vietnam. read attached interview. (remember he's promoting his lectures/training/book at this time..roughly 2004?) I will also post an account of an example event in Billy's career, just so it's obvious I understand the aspect of him that was the real deal.

People talking about getting first hand information. Billy Waugh's email address is apparently (he posts it at numerous places on the web) billywccn~AT~aol~DOT~com (change the ~AT~ and ~DOT~ appropriately) Someone can try to give him a shout. See if we can get some more info about Vietnam jumps etc.

I offer condolences. Lots of bad things. I realize we talk about Vietnam a bunch here, but take heart that it's only related to Cooper theories. I know I have no place offering opinions on the Vietnam experience, and only post as someone reading history written by others, which is always full of inaccuracies. But that's all I have. Better for me to read those, and try to understand, than not talk about it, or not write about it etc. But do know that I appreciate your effort, and hope things are always a little better each day for you and your friends. As July 4th approaches, I am reminded that freedom is not free. Some upbeat good thoughts thrown your way.

The first successful HALO jump in Vietnam, was the fourth one. 8/10/1971 Interestingly it was led by Captain James Storter, the recon company commander. He picked 3 experienced skydivers from his recon men, and attended a HALO refresher course in Saigon. Storter had exaggerated his qualifications. His only HALO training was that refresher course. Two weeks training and they did their jump. Night, moonlight. No injuries. C-130 at 16,000 ft. Four days in the DZ. No detection. Storter completed his Ranger career by serving as a Ranger Instructor and Commander of the Florida Ranger Camp. details on the jumps on page 328 and 329 of this book. http://books.google.com/books?id=JYT5UO_VHHcC&pg=PA328 Storter's team obviously was able to piggyback off the knowledge of previous people. some details on Storter's career, from https://www.benning.army.mil/rtb/Hall_of_Fame/Halloffame12/storter.pdf Also attached. For a good detail of Waugh's HALO, revisit this link (all pretty much got injured..Waugh was leader, although some accounts put the kid who went MIA/KIA as leader which I believe is untrue) http://www.taskforceomegainc.org/S176.htm This account, the most detailed I can find, mentions heavy rain approaching the ground: "Unable to see SSgt. Bath's light, the other team members drifted away in the heavy rain, and though unable to see the others, Billy Waugh was able to make out an NVA truck convoy on a road about 5 miles north boldly driving with lights on."

Hi Jerry Yes I know nothing about Vietnam. I actually know little about most wars fought in the world. If you have information that can educate me, I will listen. I usually ignore people who say "I know stuff" though. Usually they don't. Maybe you do, though? I can't know. I don't know you.

I think the Vietnam experience for jumpers probably needs to be broken out. I'm not even sure how much the different groups knew at the time about who was doing what. There was a lot of HALO training. There were a small number of HALO jumps that are common knowledge. There were a LOT of insertions of recon teams. Don't know how many by parachute. Maybe SL? Remember Delta reported experimenting with HALO also. The North Vietnam CIA insertions by parachute (they did some marine) are also interesting. Were those HALO or ??? There's a lot of dimensions to all of this. I think there's a lot of mythology too. I think they were kind of just working it out at the time. New. Experimental. Nothing at all like modern day military. Every time I read something about Vietnam military, I'm amazed at how much more detail there is. It was a huge complicated multi-dimensional beast. I don't think anyone really knew everything that was going on, at any point in time. Yeah, if anyone out there has any related first person info, that would be really cool to hear about. I mean, I had harped before on the sport jumping scene in Saigon during the late 60s before. Sport jumping in a war zone. Yet another dimension. So all sorts of stuff. (edit) oh you were talking about sketch matches (doesn't everyone match the sketch :). reposting the one freaky 1971 photo in my mind. Has a reasonable slight build too, which is good for a Cooper match. Oh and on his web site, there are some more recent photos from work in Afghanistan etc for CIA. I'll attach those too. And some other older ones from the 60s. (edit) note that BW's photo with LBJ is also on the wall in the first photo. The woman was famous in SF circles for some reason, I forget why. doesn't matter.

source: http://books.google.com/books?id=GdCKyGhie_QC&pg=PA88&lpg=PA88&dq=%22billy+waugh%22+November+1971&source=bl&ots=u6Ak5x11Iz&sig=JeJ9qqsYHPaeTH8Af48TvofWM3w&hl=en&ei=iytNStHTC4bYtgOkxaG1BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1 page 88 "The distasteful retreat from Vietnam was a pivotal point in my career. My orders were up in November 1971, and I discussed them with the Operation 35 commander, Colonel Roger Pezzelle. The orders were to return to Fort Bragg, so I needed to make a decision - once again - on whether to extend my tour of duty. The colonel quietly told me, "Billy, the United States has lost heart for Vietnam. We will be closing CCN and CCC, so you may as well go back to Fort Bragg while you have the orders. SOG is finished as of March 1972." This fine former OSS officer was explaining to me that we were going to give the country to the NVA. As he did, I thought, "What a perfectly fucking shame. Goddamn, why did we allow our lads to die? What a goddamn travesty this is." ..I shook my head sadly and slowly. We looked each other in the eye. I saw tears in his eyes, and I knew he saw them in mine. The war in Vietnam, for me, ended precisely at that moment. When I returned to Fort Bragg and the 5th Special Forces Group (A) in December of 1971, I had to find out what what an armchair sergeant major was required to do. It was new to me; .... They then wanted to ship him to Fort Devens, Massachusetts to 10th Special Forces Group. He says "no way".. (page 89) apparently he went to Pentagon to try to resolve it. He couldn't. So he retired. (i've not gotten pages 90+ to load, so apparently that's what happened)

quade said: We don't know if Cooper had any training. The Vietnam HALO spots were off sometimes. Their gear? modified T-10's. We talked about jumping with rounds. Sure they got a little steering, but basically they're jumping rounds at night. There is some detail about how they used a jeep light with a battery to charge the fluorescent panel the leader jumped with. And the spray on stuff. And then on at least one jump they tried a light. But they admit they weren't the greatest jumpers. And you can see the testosterone here, rather than any clear operational or strategic thinking: Waugh put it this way: “We (at SOG) were not the best HALO men assembled, as formation flying was not our specialty. Since it was not, we devised a plan that each man, being separated in the jungle (a given), was a single Recon Man, and should kick ass and take names by blowing Charlie away with TAC AIR (on his own home ground). Recon Company CCN did put HALO into fact, as a silent way to arrive at work.” In terms of gear, I thought this comment was funny: "The parachutes were OD T-10's with a 7-cell TU modification. Upon opening on the insertion, I thought I had holes in my chute, but upon closer inspection I realized that they had given me an old chute with white patches on it. I guess someone knew they weren't getting this chute back and didn't want to waste the newer chutes.” If you read all the details, it seems to me the Vietnam HALO jumps were a cluster fuck. This idea that they were way sophisticated, I think is just myth. Obviously it was cutting edge for the times. High risk. People died. Scary. But everything says cluster fuck, to me. (edit) There's plenty of evidence that backs me up. But the guy jumping with his mines armed? and getting his ass blown up as a result on landing? WTF? (edit) I also thought it was interesting Billy Waugh arguably fit, in some strange way, the "stuck middle manager" profile of Ckret's...i.e. he rose to the most senior NCO rung: Sergeant Major . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_major Maybe that's all he wanted. Who knows. After retiring in '72 he went to work for the US postal service. Really. (until he hooked up again with CIA in '77). He worked for Edwin P. Wilson, the guy who eventually sold arms to Libya. (and got convicted for it). What's criminal, anyhow, when you really think about it? :) Waugh didn't get prosecuted, though he was in Libya. (edit) although he retired in '72, he left Vietnam in December 1971. reference: http://books.google.com/books?id=E9v2t2FQffYC&pg=PA151&dq=%22Billy+departed+Vietnam%22&lr=

I'll comment. Damned good match Snow, except he has Duane's ears . 377 5'9". 42 in 1971. interesting he retired in '72 and then got hooked up with CIA in 1977. Supposedly he was helping CIA back in the 60s while still in military. Birthday 12/1 (week after Cooper). Here's a pic of him with a CIA spook in the '60s. He was injured, and there's a shot of him shaking hands with LBJ in the '60s also. Perfect guy, since he'd be considered untouchable...i.e. true blue, etc. His HALO was the one where the guy went MIA/KIA..never extracted although they found CAR shells etc. attached more current photo (still alive apparently) There's a shot from 2004 where he hooked up (annually?) with SOG buddies and jumped at fort bragg. Also for fun attached a crazy picture from the Ravens in 'nam (air america). Did they do this photo as a joke? (rockets on like a cessna single prop? looks like a setup)

yeah. I was just noting the similarity to the Cooper jump conditions. I suspect the people the FBI talked to, in the military in 1971, were not even aware of what jumpers were doing in Vietnam at the time. I mean, when Cooper does it, we're told experienced jumpers wouldn't do it. But here experienced jumpers did the exact same thing (night, rain clouds, freefall) for no good reason. I mean these are experienced jumpers, jumping in bad conditions for no good reason. (the mission was experimental, it didn't need a date) I think a lot of this HALO stuff was testosterone driven..i.e. a couple of guys pushed to do it, just because they knew they could. It turned out to be a bad idea, and they were told to stop. How come no one has commented on Billy Waugh's similarity to the Cooper sketch? I've read some stuff where he says he was helping CIA projects while still in military. He's got quite a career. 8 purple hearts, which I think ties the record? He's quite the famous NCO/SF guy. (edit) a link for 377 (radios) http://hereford.ampr.org/history/portable.html history of military portable radios (including survival radios). I thought I read there about how they switched frequencies because of overuse of 243 (some beacons were using that from parachute drops? etc)

no they didn't jump it. just posing for pics. You can compare to the Billy Waugh pics for accuracy. hey I just noticed the first HALO, they jumped thru rain clouds, and rescue craft couldn't pick them up because of bad weather afterwards. Talking about the jump: "Within 2,000 feet, however, the team hit rain clouds and lost sight of each other. Hill, who could not see his altimeter, remembered from the team’s weather briefing that the first of two cloud layers ended at 4,000 feet, at which time he began counting before pulling his ripcord. ... Separated on the ground, in enemy territory, with poor weather closing in, and without maps of the area, RT FLORIDA’s members focused on staying alive. ... Two days of poor weather kept rescue aircraft on the ground. (edit) Added June 1971 pic of Bath, Waugh and Campbell, rigged up. Not as good, but you can see their gear from the front. "

Billy Waugh is mentioned in the reports discussed. Good pic of the gear in some pics attached (real, from the 1971 jumps). I included pics of Billy because of his age. (remember how we were saying people's knowledge of Vietnam was bogus..the age of various players) When do you think Billy was born? 1929 (december 1 actually) Funny. He was 42 when they did the HALO jumps in 1971. He retired (Sergeant Major) April 1, 1972. Eventually worked for the CIA starting in 1977. Was Green Beret since 1954. He was in Korea in April 1951. He was airborne qualified shortly after he enlisted in 1948. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Waugh Anyone guess his age right? The "COUNTERPART" is him and I guess a 'nard? after a long operation. THere are more pics with some of his cohorts. (edit) pics are from http://macvsog.cc/photo.htm#Photo%20Gallery (edit) in his book Hunting The Jackal, Billy says he's five foot nine. (page 147)

this is some excerpts of the history file that I said had good tech detail on the Vietnam HALO jumps. did you guys note they jumped holding each other? (pairs?) And from their DZ, they didn't jump in jungle. I think they just found each other by eye and lights.. They jumped with fluorescent stuff too? Again the whole report is interesting (copied at the paintball guy's site, but I'm repeating here just to show it's interesting). I highlighted in blue a story about landing on a mine (they each carried six mines) and a guy blowing his ass off. Ouch! I also highlighted some radio stuff for 377. they used cw. "More improvisations followed. The parachutes were standard T-10, modified to a 7-gore TU to improve maneuverability. For timing devices - which automatically deployed the main chute at a designated altitude should the parachutist fail to do so - SOG procured Czech-made KAP III timers, which were far more reliable than the standard U.S. alternative. Also procured was Tierra Spray (it has since been deemed a biohazard), a green florescent mixture that, when coated on a freefall team, would allow them to see each other while falling through the darkness. It actually didn’t work that well. Finally, the CIA loaned a homing beacon to be carried by Newman. Each team member would carry a transistor radio which, when tuned to the right frequency, allowed them to converge on Newman on the ground. By the third of November, RT FLORIDA was ready. As the team gathered at the CCN isolation area in Danang, however, US intelligence sources began to suspect that the mission was already compromised and the mission was postponed a couple of days. Again, signs pointed towards compromise and the mission was postponed for several more days. This time, a radio intercept showed that the North Vietnamese not only knew of the mission and the drop zone coordinates, but also the names of everyone in RT FLORIDA, to include Billy Waugh, who wasn’t jumping. Faced with a serious leak in its operational security, OP 35 was forced to change drop zones. The new target was 40 kilometers south of Khe Sanh and 15 kilometers inside the Laotain border. Although the region was rugged and sparsely populated, it was well known for its dense anti-aircraft protection. And if there were any doubts about North Vietnamese vigilance, they were dispelled when Hill made a visual reconnaissance of the area in a Nail OV-10, only to have the windshield shot out of the plane. During the final week of November, RT FLORIDA again suited up to jump. This time, on the suspicion that the leak had occurred in Danang, the team assembled in Long Thanh. At 0200 hours on 28 November 1970, the six RT FLORIDA members filed aboard a C-130E Combat Talon Black Bird. Frank Norbury, recovering from malaria, got out of bed to act as jumpmaster. Heading north, the aircraft rose to 17,000 feet and crossed into Laos. Five minutes from drop-time, the team did its equipment check and found that the light on Hill’s (the One-Zero) altimeter had burned out. This meant that he would not know when to deploy his chute. Improvising, Hill tried dousing the front of his body with Tierra Spray, but still could not get enough illumination to see the altimeter. Unwilling to abort the mission, Hill and the rest of the team moved to the edge of the tail ramp. Employing Combat Skyspot, a navigational system using ground-based radar positions, the C-130E crew came up on the drop zone. With a hand signal from Norbury, RT Florida stepped off the ramp and into the night. As he had practiced many times before, Newman would exit first, followed by the rest of the team. Within 2,000 feet, however, the team hit rain clouds and lost sight of each other. Hill, who could not see his altimeter, remembered from the team’s weather briefing that the first of two cloud layers ended at 4,000 feet, at which time he began counting before pulling his ripcord. But he opened his chute too soon and drifted from the rest of the team. Once on the ground, problems continued to mount. The drop zone turned out to be buried under six inches of water, and when Newman set up his homing device, it shorted out. Worse, the Combat Skyspot navigational system, supposedly highly accurate, had put the team a dozen kilometers off its intended target. Separated on the ground, in enemy territory, with poor weather closing in, and without maps of the area, RT FLORIDA’s members focused on staying alive. Climbing an adjacent hill burned away by a lighting strike, Newman ran into Tiak Bya-Ya (now living in Hope Mills, NC), one of the two Rhade on the team, and the two tried to raise a Covey Forward Air Control (FAC) plane on the radio. The other Rhade, No Nie-Ya, managed to link up with the Vietnamese warrant officer. Hill and Hernandez were both alone. This was not the first or last time that Hernandez would find himself alone in the enemy’s backyard. A search was immediately launched for the missing team. Looking in the wrong vicinity, however, it took three days before a Covey (Al Mosiello, flown by Jim Lathham, later a POW and Commander of the Thunderbirds) finally broke through the clouds and made visual contact with Newman. The team members were glad to see friendly aircraft, but it also alerted the North Vietnamese to the presence of a SOG team. Enemy patrols approached, forcing RT FLORIDA to call in repeated A-1 Skyraider strikes from Nakhon Phanom, Thailand. Two days of poor weather kept rescue aircraft on the ground. It was not until 2 December that a pair of CH-53 helicopters attempted an exfiltration. Hill recalls that the team had chosen to use the URC-10 survival radios, as their prime means of communications. This later proved to be a saving grace decision. Hill’s radio was soaked enough that he lost voice communications. Al Mosiello, an old radio operator, was able to remain in contact with Hill by Hill sending CW (Morse Code) to the Covey. Mosiello responded, and relaying to Newman by voice to maintain intra-team communications. Newman then provided team directions and intentions to the Covey. Rendezvousing with the orbiting Covey, the choppers headed for four separate pick-up locations to collect the men. While retrieving Hill on a jungle penetrator, small arms fire rang out from the triple canopy, hitting Hill in the right shin with a spent round. The other lifts were completed without incident and returned to NKP Thailand. RT FLORIDA proved that HALO could be used to get a team in and out alive. SOG concluded that, “as a means of entry this technique was considered proven, since an active enemy search was not made to locate the team.” Better yet, nobody was killed, so Shungel and Waugh continued to expand their pet project. By the beginning of 1971, Frank Norbury, assisted by Harry Denny, Cliff Newman, Melvin Hill, George Zacker, and a handful of other HALO specialists, had established a freefall course at Long Thanh and began training a mixed class of Americans and South Vietnamese.Cliff Newman remembers another humorous antidote that took place when the school was set up. Colonel Shungle wanted to make a jump. Cliff spotted the C-130 from 12,500 feet. As Cliff did a standing landing in front of the PIO people from Saigon, Colonel Shungle went into the woods. When they made contact with him by radio, Cliff clearly remembers the transmission: “Tell Newman to assume the position of attention and do not leave the drop zone!” Cliff recalls, “I figured I had my second butt-chewing coming from him.” (The first had been when Cliff took his team members to Saigon prior to the first insert for a night of partying.) “After Shungle went into the woods, Melvin gave me a rotten carrot to improve my eyesight.” After a dozen more students were trained, a decision was made in the late spring to form a second HALO team. Billy Waugh, the recon company Sergeant Major at CCN, decided to have just four Americans on the team. Because on the previous jump, considerable time had been wasted trying to assemble on the ground. This time each member was to be equipped with two radios to continue his mission independently if necessary. Chosen as team leader was Captain Larry Manes, who headed CCN’s recon company and had been a freefall instructor at Long Thanh earlier that year. Three others, Specialist Six Noel Gast, Staff Sergeant Robert Castillo, and Sergeant John “Spider” Trantanella were from the HALO-qualified RT IDAHO. Sergeant First Class Charles Wesley, from Recon Company was the standby jumper, but was called on emergency leave the night before the jump. Sergeant Jesse Campbell would now be the stand by jumper. During the pre-dawn hours of 7 May 1971, Captain Manes’ team moved to Danang airfield and boarded a C-130E. By this time, restrictions leveled against SOG prevented Americans from entering Laos, so their target was a new North Vietnamese supply trail just inside the South Vietnamese border midway between the Ashau Valley and Khe Sanh. At 18,500 feet, the team jumped in pairs. Manes, with a Ranger Eye Panel (illumines tape) attached to the back of the parachute container, and Gast, covered with Tierra Spray, exited first. Murphy’s Law quickly intervened. Gast, who had armed his toe poppers, landed hard on his rucksack causing one of the mines to detonate and wounding Gast in the buttocks (earning himself the nickname Half-Assed Gast). John (Spider) Trantanella remembered the jump this way. “We used supplemental oxygen by breathing off the oxygen hoses from the console until told to standby. We did not have oxygen masks that were used for normal HALO jumps. Robert and I exited the ramp holding onto each other. I remember I was inverted and my KAP-3 activated around 4,000 feet. There was valley fog and I could not see the ground, but trees protruded through the fog. After checking my canopy, I looked around and saw a canopy about 50 to 100 feet below and to my front. I kept my eyes on the canopy following his moves. He was losing altitude faster than I, as he penetrated the ground fog, I took a last bearing on his position. All of a sudden, there was a flash, as if a hand grenade went off. Thinking that the North Vietnamese had spotted us, I immediately turned away from the flash. As I entered the fog, I pulled down on the rear risers preparing to land. When I regained my composure (breath) I cut myself free from the harness and parachute. Since it was BMNT, I could not see anything but high weeds and shrubs. I started crawling towards the area I presumed was the flash. I came across several makeshift huts. Still moving, I heard nothing but calm.” "“As it started to get light, I saw what appeared to be movement behind a fallen tree. A semi-bald head was moving a little then stopped. I aimed my CAR-15 at the head, then made a noise. Noellooked up. I was happy to see him. I jumped over to his position, then to my surprise I saw his rucksack blown to pieces, and his pants were burnt off from the buttocks to his boots. He was in semishock, and his color was dead gray. He asked me how he looked, and I responded not bad considering we were both on the ground alive and separated from the others. Noel was bleeding. I took my shirt off and wrapped it around his butt, sort of like a diaper to stop the bleeding. When the sun came up, I heard the sound of our COVEY. It was Sergeant First Class Dave Chaney flying out of Quang Tri, CCN’s Mobile Launch Team 2. I grabbed my survival radio and came up on the radio. I gave him our situation, explaining that Noel was hurt bad, and needed an extraction.” “We moved to an area away from the explosion, but Noel couldn’t move far. A few hours passed and the sound of helicopters coming up the valley could be heard. During that time I observed some movement about fifty feet away. I did not recognize it, but I believe it was Manes or Castillo, but we stayed hid. I directed the UH1-H to our location. The chase medic was Robert Woodham. He threw out a single string for Gast. With his injuries I knew that he could not be stabo rigged out without damage to his butt and legs. I waved my arms to throw another stabo. I hooked Noel in, and then myself. I let Noel ride over my shoulder to take up some of the pressure. We rode beneath the helicopter for about twenty minutes. They set us down at a deserted fire base. Then we boarded the helicopter. Noel was in enormous pain. I was limping on my left side, hurt from the jump, or from Noel ridding on my shoulder during the flight to the fire base.” Nearby, Manes had settled in a streambed. After hearing choppers come overhead at first light, he waited two more hours before breaking radio silence to contact Covey. Told that Gast and Trantanella had been extracted, Manes was asked if he wanted directions to link up with Castillo. Not wanting to attract more attention with orbiting aircraft, he opted to continue the mission independently, as trained. With the enemy apparently unaware of their presence, Manes and Castillo paralleled each other while observing enemy positions along the road for four more days before being extracted without incident." other report: "Once over the DZ and a combination of a thumbs up from Frank Norbury and the green light, we exited and I got to watch Sergeant John Trantanella's smiling face for the next 70 seconds. His eyes were rather large and his moustache was blowing all over. During the freefall, we made a few slow turns, but by any standard, it was a controlled and stable fall. I was not able to keep CPT Manes and SP6 Gast in sight 100% of the time during the descent, but I had a fix on them, and after opening, began steering toward them. I believe we missed our intended opening and landing point by a good distance and thus opened up over terrain that was higher than we had expected. Therefore, we ran out of altitude before we could assemble under canopy. As I was steering toward the group, I noticed the ground coming up and realized I was over trees and turned to run down the tree line looking for some place to land. As I was heading down hill, I heard a very rapid set of explosions and figured that someone had landed in and among the bad guys. Shortly thereafter I ran out of altitude and suitable landing spots and went down through the trees and landed on the ground sloping downward. I got out of my parachute gear and took a quick check around, heard nothing, saw nothing. I then gathered up my chute and other gear that I would leave behind, stuffed it into the kit bag, shoved the bag under some thick brush, and set out to attempt to find the others. I was not able to reach anybody on the radio and continued my slow and careful movement across slope in the general direction of where I last saw my teammates and had heard the explosion.”"

Okay, you guys might think these guys are weird, but they tried to recreate the Vietnam SOG Halo uniform/gear/setup and take pictures of it in the modern day. They used whatever info/photos they could find, as background. I saw them post on what I thought was a vets forum, so I think they're not way off base (look at the rest of their site for their background/motivations. They're paintball guys, but they say "Modern Forces Living History Group and it aims to faithfully portray the units of MACV-SOG in the period of 1966-1972 during the Vietnam conflict." Note they say "We appreciate comments from SOG veterans and have recently been talking to SOG One-Zeros John S. Meyer, Lee Burkins and John Good (RT Texas & RT Arizona) about how we can make what we do as correct as possible. Here is what John S. Meyer had to say. "Paul, I enjoyed your Web site. Thank you for keeping the history of SOG alive and for striving to make your depictions historically accurate. "John S. Meyer One-Zero, RT Idaho 68-70" (we all remember what a 1-0 was, right!) the photos of the recreation are here; http://www.modernforces.com/SOG_halo_1.htm (they admit they got the back chute wrong) There a couple of interesting things. In old photos, there was tape around the carabiners at the shoulder, apparently to keep them from flopping around. Would be real cool if any '70s military jumpers here ever taped carabiners when jumping with military. 2) There were two rucksacks apparently used. The last was called "Tropical Rucksack" and is shown attached below the T-10 reserve in the photos at that link. (look at all the photos) I think they were unclear on how the Tropical Rucksack was attached. It looks like they decided to use carabiners. A real CISO Indigenous Rucksack is here http://www.modernforces.com/uniform_cisoruck.htm "Conrad 'Ben' Baker of the Counterinsurgency Support Office (CISO) designed the indigenous rucksack based on a VC/NVA design on request of the Special Forces in Vietnam. The bag was intended to be used by CIDG troops hence the name, over 350,000 were produced. The rucksack was made from rubberized cotton canvas that was water resistant, the CISO pack had a thin waist strap (often cut off as in the case of this rucksack) and featured three outside front pockets and a back map pocket inside the flap. Though designed for indigenous personnel and their advisors, the rucksack was also popular with SOG Recon teams before the Tropical Rucksack become a more common item." The Tropical Rucksack had a metal x frame and is shown here. http://www.modernforces.com/uniform_rucksack.htm Be interesting if anyone here actually jumped in Vietnam with a rucksack, to give any detail. "The Tropical Rucksack was introduced in 1968 as part of the M-67 equipment. The 68 dated example that I have has the early plastic snaps on the pockets like all first issue 67 gear. It was first issued to "priority" units including Special Forces, Rangers, and Divisional Recon. It would be more common to see the Lightweight Ruck in a line unit in 1968 than the Tropical Rucksack. This Ruck is easily identified as it has an integrated frame in the shape of an "X" that can be seen looking at the side of the Ruck that goes against your back. This pack was bigger than the lightweight rucksack, but incorporated the same basic ideas of a large compartment with three external pockets."

Quade said: "Same as always, I'm convinced he didn't really know what he was doing as far as skydiving goes and died that night. Nothing I've ever seen even suggests anything else. my 2 cents. I think Cooper died that night only because of the money find. My understanding of the other hijackers with jump experience, tells me that it's unlikely to be able to correlate jump experience with what Cooper did or didn't do. I know everyone has their own assessment for correlating behavior vs. experience. For me, Cooper's experience is just "I don't know". I didn't want to tear apart the recent new interview of Rataczak that Cousin Brucie did. But: note that Rat. implied trust of radar and lack of trust of radar. I believe he mispresents his identification to the radar people on where Cooper jumped (bump/"shrimp boats") They would be the long distance radar FAA people, and we have that transcript. There is no comment about marking a spot like Rat. claims. If those people logged flight path separately from Air Force, then there's a radar map we don't have. I doubt they did though, otherwise we'd know? Rat. did make note of the oscillations. I think Rat. is misremembering/mischaracterizing what he actually said. I don't know Rat., but the little interviews I've read, make me think he tries to sell his point of view too strongly. Reminds me of H. Maybe it's a pilot thing. A little bit of arrogance. We all know from the flight path that 305 was off of V-23 a couple miles at some points. I can't understand why Rat. gets all soft in saying "it's possible" when asked whether 305 could have been 10 miles off V-23. Rat. sounds like H., in trying to promote some of the current stories, almost. I've mentally written off Rat. as a credible witness. I think maybe just too much time as gone by. I wonder if he sold the "I told you when the bump happened" story hard back in 1971? Maybe there were just too many people who were sure they knew stuff..when no one knew anything? Ending: Rat. had a serious injury last year, and was lucky to make a recovery. So while I evaluate what little I know of his testimony one way, I do wish him the best of future health, and am impressed with his career/life etc. No lack of respect intended.

hey you're exactly right quade. It's easy to forget about teams working together. Bidirectional is fine with 3 or more. (and some local reference ability: like compass, plus communication) Cooper? I never mentioned Cooper. Don't think any of this has anything to do with Cooper. Just neat stuff. Orange1 mentioned HALO history in Vietnam. We hadn't fully documented it before. 377 was just asking, I think as confirmation on some of the detail on the HALO teams in Vietnam. Orange1 said it was interesting they ended HALO in Vietnam in '71 before Cooper's jump. Apparently they did. You can debate why. I don't think the Delta guy's description of their experiments, is exactly what the HALO team that was described, used. They used something. It's interesting that it was claimed to be "from CIA". Here's some more description from Valentine of the various things Delta tried for jungle insertions: (RT is Recon Team) Delta tried inserting RTs into triple-canopy jungle by conventional parachuting with smoke-jumper suits, they tried low-level [400’] parachuting into the same terrain using smoke jumper suits, and they tried rappelling from hovering choppers. Delta tried just about everything except free fall parachuting. Note some others did freefall: the HALO teams. And 377: my reading says that 250 ft (SL) jumps with T-4/T-7's (not T-10s?) was combat standard in the '40-'50s. Can debate that. Don't know if that story was true or false in Vietnam, but other places claim 250'. One claimed 143' in training. reference http://www.geocities.com/equipmentshop/llparachute.htm

yeah, the rod bidirectionality is exactly the problem the guy noted. It sounds like there were different groups..i.e. the Halo guys and also other SF teams doing insertions. Sounds like they all couldn't figure out how to do jungle team insertions well (by parachute). Too many problems. I liked how he summarized all the radios they played with in his group/division: HC-162 (they initially got six? prototypes) Prick 74 [AN/PRC-74, made by Hughes, from the HC-162 protos) Angry 109 (AN/GRC 109) (hand me down from CIA) RS-1 (another CIA hand me down) photos here, nice: http://www.militaryradio.com/spyradio/rs1.html HT-1 (japanese VHF AM. Hallicrafters? nice page/photos here also part of the "Village Radio" program. 27-50Mhz http://www.prc68.com/I/VR.shtml TR-20 (base for talking to the HT-1's. tube station. Scroll down for photo here: http://www.militaryradio.com/spyradio/village.html KWM-2A (for talking to the HC-162's. Collins) here's a photo of a marine operating a KWM-2A in a bunker in vietnam http://marinecorpsmars.com/BarrysSite/BARRYS%20Images/Bunker.jpg (edit) updated "Angry 109" to it's AN/GRC-109 real name. Was replaced by the AN/PRC-74 in the mid-60s. http://www.radiomilitari.com/grc109.html Here's a pic of a antenna that was intended to be fired out of a grenade launcher for the GRC-109 http://www.militaryradio.com/spyradio/ant_launcher.jpg "It was intended to be fired in an M79 grenade launcher. The projectile is a black anodized aluminum cylinder filled with green plastic insulated antenna wire that pays out in flight. One end of the wire was attached to the heavy steel cartridge case and the other in the projectile. When the cartridge is fired, the projectile was supposed to penetrate through the jungle canopy and leave the wire hanging in the treetops. The other end remained attached to the fired case, and when unloaded from the M79, could be cut off and attached to the radio."

Two unrelated topics, but 377 was musing about "how were the insertion teams trying to DF, with what kind of 'CIA gear'" This first page has good random detail about radios used by SF in Vietnam, among a lot of other stuff...But found an interesting paragraph about DF attempts with modified transistor radios. apparently he was with Project Delta SF, 1964. Communications. probably not connected with the halo teams we mentioned, but good info. It makes sense that cheap transistor radio ferrite rod antennas could be 'attempted' for DF as described. The technique described is accurate, with it's limitations. The second link below is a CIA document on the CIA contribution to the war. It covers what they termed "black entry". It has some names redacted. I chopped out some pictures of the maps of black parachute insertions into North Vietnam in 1961 and 1963 and attached. The author makes a note of how thin the documentation on DRV insertion ops was/is, in the last pages. (p. 69) Mentions use of DC-4, and C-123 as aircraft (early 60s). Note the C-123 had a rear cargo door. I believe it is one of the docs that were recently declassified in Mar 2009?. so people may not have seen it. Kind of wordy but interesting to read. i.e. from a post 3/2009: "The CIA Center for the Study of Intelligence released six volumes of previously classified books detailing various aspects of the CIA’s operations in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos in the ’60s and ’70s. The works were distributed and discussed at a weekend conference hosted in Lubbock, Texas, by Texas Tech University’s Vietnam Center and Archive. The documents, penned by CIA historian Thomas L. Ahern Jr., draw on operations files as well as interviews with key participants to review American foreign policy and provide what CIA chief historian Gerald K. Haines calls a sharp analytical look at CIA programs and reporting from the field." 1) http://www.don-valentine.com/5th%20Group%20and%20Vietnam.htm "When Delta was experimenting with infiltration methods for our recon teams, we tried using beacons to help assemble the team after they parachuted into the thick jungle. We packed all of the rucksacks into a bundle and rigged a radio beacon to the bundle with its antenna taped to one of the parachute suspension lines. After the teams reached the ground, they were always scattered and disoriented. First of all, they had to survive a night tree landing in very tall trees, which is very risky, then they had to climb down the tree to reach the ground. We issued each man a small civilian transistor radio to help them locate the beacon. We had the frequency range of the radio "stretched" so it would pick up the beacon signal. When you held the radio right side up with its narrow side pointing towards the beacon, the beacon signal was the loudest. Unfortunately, either narrow side produced the same results so you could not tell which way was correct. The only way to know for sure was to walk a good distance and aim your radio again. If the signal was getting stronger, you were okay. If it was getting weaker, you had to turn around and go in the opposite direction. It took three days to assemble an RT using this method. Delta dropped that idea and kept experimenting. Try as we might, we never came up with an effective way to surreptitiously insert an RT into a thick jungle canopy. The lurps had to find open spaces large enough for the chopper to land or blast an LZ with 2,000 pound bombs." 2) CIA study on their black insertions into the North http://www.foia.cia.gov/vietnam/5_THE_WAY_WE_DO_THINGS.pdf The full set of docs that were released in Mar. 2009 are available here also (and probably with similar pdfs at the CIA foia site) http://today.ttu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/01-cia-and-the-generals.pdf http://today.ttu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/02-cia-and-the-house-of-ngo.pdf http://today.ttu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/03-cia-and-rural-pacification.pdf http://today.ttu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/04-good-questions-wrong-answers.pdf http://today.ttu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/05-the-way-we-do-things.pdf http://today.ttu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/06-undercover-armies.pdf

I think we covered this doc before, but repeating: It purports to be a history of combat jumps. It seems pretty authoritative to my eye. He says "operational jumps". So not training, rescue or reinforcement. He says he omits jumps made by intelligence agencies in civilian dress. Unclear if that occured in Vietnam. http://home.comcast.net/~harryfp/combat_jump_record.pdf I extracted pages 33 thru 37 which cover vietnam from 61 to 72 (attached) Includes details on HALO and CIA recon/intelligence jumps. The CIA jumps were around '61-63. If you look at the full history, you can see how stuff was always happening though..Korea, Laos, Indochina, Tibet, even before '61. US and RVN jumps listed.

from a post at another forum, commenting on the SOG halo history. Seems to confirm the transmitter beacon carried by one member. plus a funny briefcase reference. :) In addition, the "Earth Angel" operations are mentioned. (2nd extract below describes Earth Angel). While we focus on US spec ops, the South Vietnamese had their own unit, and some Vietnamese have started to post accounts on the web. "Pike Hill" operations also. https://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3514 Just a footnote to the above. Col Larry Trapp was the Chief of Airborne Opns for SOG. He said Billy bugged him for a couple years to get the Halo missions approved. There were other HALO inserts of agents in NVN. These were Vietnamese, not American, agents. One of the two missions my team turned down at CCN would have been the first low-level insert in Feb 70. (it was one of those the guy with the briefcase stapped to his arm deals). The "PLAN" was to have a Phantom shoot a homing beacon into a hill in Laos and then we would do a night jump on the beacon. There were several things wrong with the "PLAN". One we were jumping in triple canopy with no decenders. I asked so how do we get down? Answer lower your reserve. I said great so we are still 100 ft from the ground then what? No answer. Second was assembly. I said ok now we jump in triple canopy and we get on the ground - how do we assemble? If you have ever been in triple canopy you know what I mean. 50 meters away you can't see or hear anything. You have to remember that the Bru didn't use radios - thought there were ghosts captured by us and kept in a metal box.... I asked if we were going to use the "crickets" like they used in WWII... NO Answer. Last I said I had jumped small LZs at Bragg with experienced jumpers and it was a total mess even without someone shooting at you. They expected us to take our team and train for 5 days and then run the mission. My 10 and I declined I talked with Capt Robb 2 years ago at SOAR. He actually ran the first airborne op. By then they had worked on the things we had brought up. Their LZ was flat without trees, but they now had decenders in case of tree landing. And they had a small transistor radio that homed in on a transmitter carried by Robb. Only problem they had was that one of the radio didn't work and one of the indig was seperated from the team (picked up on extraction). They landed, assembled called a lot of air, smoked a lot of enemy and got out without loss. Very successful operation. __________________ Robert "Bru" Taylor re South Vietnamese spec ops/parachuting http://loiho.blogspot.com/2008/03/s-t-chc-nha-k-thut.html Group 11, an airborne infiltration unit based at Da Nang, and Group 68, headquartered in Saigon with detachments at Kom Tum, was soon integrated under SMS command. Group 68 ran airborne trained rallier and agent units, including 'Earth Angels' (NVA ralliers) and 'Pike Hill' teams (Cambodian disguised as Khmer Communists). A typical Earth Angel operation took place on 15 December 1971, when a team was inserted by US aircraft on a reconnaissance mission into Mondolkiri Province, Cambodia. Pike Hill operations were focused in the same region, including a seven man POW recovery team dropped into Ba Kev, Cambodia, on 12 February 1971. Pike Hill operations even extended into Laos, e.g. the four man Pike Hill team parachuted onto the edge of the Bolovens Plateau on 28 December 1971, where it reported on enemy logistics traffic for almost two months. Pike Hill operations peaked in November 1972 when two teams were inserted by C-130 Blackbird aircraft flying at 250 feet north of Kompong Trach, Cambodia. Information from one of these teams resulted in 48 B-52 strikes within one day.