snowmman

McPheters was on FBI SWAT in Miami and dealt with hijackings. Interestingly (for 377), their weapons couldn't always penetrate 747 tires "One of my supervisors, Bob Strong, quickly discovered that our standard issue thirty-eight caliber rounds would not penetrate the tires on the larger aircraft, when he attempted to do just that on a Boeing 747 ...during a skyjacking in Miami. This incident helped us realize that the FBI's garden-variety type weapons, even our 12 gauge shotguns and sniper rifles, could not always deflate the tires on the big planes. Soon we turned to other mechanical means to stop the aircraft..."

If Cooper had spotted on the Columbia and deployed, he maybe wouldn't have landed in the Columbia. If he spotted on the Columbia and didn't deploy, he would probably land in the Columbia? What about that idea, 377? It would be interesting if he deployed and landed in the Columbia. I was thinking the canopy would have been found, but from our discussions, I'm thinking not, now.

377: "Georger makes a very convincing quantitative argument of how unlikely it would have been, but it doesn't rule it out." If i'm driving down the highway with you hanging out the door...and I'm going 100 mph, and we're driving towards a telephone pole, and I say..."Look, there's hay right after the telephone pole, just jump when you see the telephone pole." It's the only telephone pole for 70 miles. How likely is it that you hit the telephone pole and die? That's why georger's last analysis doesn't really work. The analysis of a 12-15 second window is interesting. If you see the lights of Portland and Vancouver and jump, you're likely in the Columbia. (or the Williamette, but that's smaller) There is a reference to a young person finding a body on the Columbia that night, but when they returned with a sheriff or LE, the supposed body wasn't there. I have to find that story. It'd be nice if we had LE reports on any unfounded reports of bodies around the Columbia in that time period. Regardless of what Jerry says, I think no one was searching around the Columbia in the first couple days after the jump. Remember how they complained about waiting for the weather to clear to search? Why would you care about the weather if you were searching the Columbia? You could just drive around in a boat or something. I think you have to couple this with the focus on searching elsewhere? Although a water landing could have left no evidence. I have to find that story.

One of the subcontractors of SMMI suggested it might be helpful if the Citizen Sleuths Group extracted information from the computer systems the FBI uses to track tips sent in by the public. There were 3 systems found: Pyramid Rapid Start ICON There was a lot of terrorism stuff in Pyramid. Some Zazi stuff. The frontend was a bunch of different servers, but ended up in a database system. Millions of tips here. The subcontractor used some SQL hacks here. Apparently the manufacturer, Advanced Technology Systems, leaves a testing back door password, that is reset to its default whenever patch software is installed. They couldn't get to Rapid Start. ICON was a Microsoft Access database...actually there's ICON and ICON Plus. ICON Plus uses a Oracle database. It was only accessible when connected to Pyramid for download. The subcontractor found that all Cooper related tips were immediately deleted. However, he was able to recover deleted files from the disk, that weren't overwritten. i.e. they were there still, just invisible to the system. Apparently there were a lot of tips about water landings. Also many tips about additional fragments of bills found at the Ingram site. There were 3 encrypted files. The subcontractor says he knows how to take over the Seti@home stuff, so the world can work on brute-force decryption of this file, rather than the Seti stuff they think they're working on. Apparently the CIA does this all the time, to keep the budget down on their supercomputers, or when there is "off-the-books" 'no-warrant-here" work. Jo will appreciate that there's a Mormon reference. There was also a tip phoned in about the Kenniwick crop circles. Apparently there's some hint about Cooper there, along with two other related crop circles.

Jo, your alternative explanation highlighted above may appeal to Snow. Snow and Galen make very good points about the FBI's discriminatory providing of access to files, physical evidence etc. Why does Tom get file access, a loan of phyical evidence etc...? 377 I thought I was clear. I have taken over the CSG and ousted all prior members. I have access to all FBI information. I will not be releasing it to Galen Cook or Porteus. They can sue the ass off CSG or the FBI, and it doesn't matter. The information will never see the light of day. Hey Galen Cook: Go F** off. The CSG is privileged access only. You don't rank. And don't bother voting at the next election. You don't count. (edit) I was looking thru the vid snaps I posted a while back of Tom's visit to seattle. I posted some of the color photos of the money find from that vid. The pink parachute was there next to the color pics...so I'm pretty sure the pics showed there was a lot more evidence than what Ckret showed us. More money shots, a lot more dig shots showing the sand etc. I snapped what I could from the vid, but obviously, a full scan would have been better. Hey: maybe Galen Cook could sue to release information about SR-71's being used by the FBI for domestic spying?

377 said "think the chain went through the impeller chamber serially, link by link, fitting in between the clearance between impeller wheel and chamber surface. " reasonable. I read an old description of a dredge pump modification where they wanted to deal with lots of stumps going thru...they cut the impeller blades somehow. I forget exactly. But yeah...anything mechanical has clearances. The clearances in a 30" dredge pump are unknown. Well we know it can pass balls of a certain size. I quoted current specs on 30" dredge pumps a while back (although I suspect the specs of modern pumps are a little better than the pumps in use in 1971, due to computer modelling optimizations, better capabilities in manufacturing, etc.)

farf said "Water wings that is; OK, OK flotation devices. A pair of CO2 filled bladders capable of supporting 200 pounds each; are worn discretely under each arm of the jumper. This device is known to all military aviators and considered mandatory equipment. " These guys knew they were jumping near water. Sept 1972. Skydivers giving a demo near the shores of the Columbia River in Brewster, WA ... http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=btERAAAAIBAJ&sjid=iOwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7061,2001797&dq=skydivers+drown+columbia All 3 jumpers go into the water. Two come out, one alive. The third not found. (have to check if the third was ever found.) Craig Johnson, 25, Seattle died, body recovered. Jon Zerr, 24, Renton..appears body was never found. Steve Lightfoot, 20, Seattle. Shock, treated, released. The search team argued that the current was strong and the search area large. They planned to land on the ground. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=btERAAAAIBAJ&sjid=iOwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7147,1954034 jump apparently a 3-way. "Horner said the Sheriff's Dept. boat was standing by when the men jumped and got out in time to pick up Lightfoot. The boat could not reach Johnson in time and Zerr had disappeared by the time the boat crew began looking for him, Horner said." "The sheriff said witnesses reported Zerr had released his parchute and began swimming to the nearer bank, which Horner said, was across the river's mainstream" "Horner said two of his divers had to stop their search early because they were exhausted by fighting the heavy river current"

from http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9500E1DC153EE733A25757C1A9649C946897D6CF snippet attached. "Nothing that is small enough to pass through the 6 by 9 inch hole in the shoe can escape the powerful suction of the pipes. The most easily dredged material is gravel, the most difficult being heavy clay or rock. Of course solid rock cannot be dredged, but pieces as large as a man's head are carried through the pumps without difficulty. Many curious things are brought to the surface by the suction pipes. Quite recently the Culebra drew ten fathoms of chain from the bottom of the bay and passed it through one of the centrifugal pumps into the bin. .. Her engineers do not yet understand how so much chain could have passed through the pumps without becoming entangled. Not long ago the Ancon lifted a cannonball from the bottom of Limon Bay. Fish and eels are so common that they no longer cause comment."

Here's what's funny. Just compute surface area of water. Which has most probability as a landing zone, if a water landing 1) Lewis River 2) Washougal 3) Columbia Obviously Columbia. (more surface area) So, anyone who believes Lewis or Washougal are viable DZ's, has to believe the Columbia is viable. Because there is no data to pinpoint the jump location to exclude the Columbia. Here's a side view again 1990 of the relevant locations for a Columbia DZ. (rotated from how we normal view it) (edit) at the river crossing, it's .8 statute miles. While the plane was travelling around 3.8-4 statute miles/minute. So 12 seconds or so that are critical

georger said "You carve rock and hard materials with sand slurry under pressure." Yes, as long as the rock stays stationary. If the bag is free to move with the sand slurry, then it's less prone to damage. If you nailed the bag to the ground, and hit it with the sand slurry...sure...death to bag. I think the key is that the bills don't resist..they go with the flow. To get destroyed, the two materials (slurry and bills) have to move at differential speeds. They don't?

yes exactly, rocks shot out of this thing like canon balls, whole tv sets .......... gives you an idea of the forces involved ........ forget the cutter heads for amoment ........ could a wet rotted bag stay in tact? Could unprotedted bundles of money stay in tact!? With rubber bands still in place at the end of the trip ........ friction alone in this stream of sand etc under the pressures at hand would have turned the wads of money into soup? I think the sand slurry would be a big protectant. Also note, that only 3 bundles got thru. So yeah a bunch might have gotten destroyed. Who knows if the bag helped save some? Also: to get chopped up, you have to resist forces...a compliant object like a bundle of bills would flex and give. Wood would be more likely to get chopped/damaged. I have some articles that provide more detail on the stuff Payne (the guy Tosaw hired to rake the Columbia) raked up from the bottom of the Columbia. It makes you ask the question "okay there is stuff on the bottom of the columbia...what happens when the dredges hit this stuff?..." Saying the answer is "the dredges just chop it all up into fine pieces"..doesn't seem plausible. or "The dredges somehow avoid

georger said "BTW: Tom says he measured the beach and the money find location is in a location unaffected by the dredging debris. He bases this on measurements alone so far as I know -" He doesn't know the width of the plume fields, except as estimated from the photos? He doesn't know if the sand was moved after the plume fields. I thought we have info that Fazio moved the sand along the beach...in fact I thought most of the complaints now are how they can't replenish beaches (like across the Columbia at the RV park) Now that I think of it: The geologist says there were clay layers from dredging at the money find site. The plume is slightly south. So the dredging spoils were likely moved there by dozer or tractor. Right? It doesn't matter what Tom measured...I think. (I can't understand what Tom is saying: that with a measurement he can discount the geologist's statement on the source of sand at the money find location???)

I was intrigued by the Fazio's dredging operations. I found they had hired an environmental consultant to get their dredging access permit renewed recently. They claimed they had been doing it since 1995. I don't know for sure when the earliest was. But I found their dredging permit from 2004. (It expires at the end of Oct. this year) There are 3 pages. The second page has a picture of the exact location the dredge goes to. It's at the plume area in '74, that seemed to have runoff. Georger talked about this a lot apparently from info from Tom Kaye and Fazio. It's right at the big sand hills, which you would expect. I was half wondering if the Fazios could have done any illegal dredging in the late '70s. They started up their sand operation in the '70s right? I think we know that from the pictures? I forget how we went thru this. While this may be the current dredging output site (and it seems to match one of the plumes in '74)...the '74 picture shows two plumes..the other closer to the money find. from http://www.dnr.wa.gov/Publications/aqr_roe-dredgematerialremovalandsales31-C50305.pdf and attached. BergerABAM was the firm they used to get their permit through: http://www.abam.com/portfolio/environmental/esa/index.cfm?id=283

377 said "Agree. From what you know of the dredge type, could the stacked bills have made it through intact?" yes..we went over this a lot. 30" pipeline dredge. We talked about the ball size that could go thru a typical 30" pipeline dredge. If a rock of a size can go thru, then a less hard object can go thru..it's not like the rock moves blades out of the way..it's steel..fixed configuration. yes there was probably a cutterhead. But stuff goes thru. I provided pictures of debris that went thru. That's why they get debris in the spoils sites. ...it's not like it's all finely chopped up. I still can't understand it. Ckret doesn't see this report? and Tom Kaye doesn't see it. But then again, Himmelsbach apparently never saw the radar flight path?? We have the "shards" memory from Fazio. We have multiple reports of additional fragments found. And now we have an FBI agent confirming that. Hopefully Bruce can get more. I think the new info is that the fragments were not found in the trench, from "falling down" like we theorized. This agent says they were dispersed...not very deep in the sand. (so he's not really confirming Fazio's "shards" being visible, story)

More detail from 1992 on the mutilations here. I highlight only the connected UFO events in the area. Bruce appears to be correct. http://www.anomalies.net/archive/paranet/newsletter/590 UFO events But what about the UFO connection to these mutilations. It turns out there there are some, but they are not exceedingly strong, just suggestive. And they are there, although many mutilation cases have no associated UFO reports. The Adams's Toni and Helen Locklear of Vancouver, WA, were trying out their new video camera along Lower River Road in December of 1988. When they spotted a UFO. They then proceeded to video tape 10 minutes of the UFO. I have seen this video and it shows very clearly two distinct, apparently high flying, extremely thick and robust 'condensation trails'. They look like no condensation trails I have ever seen, however. Columbia River Orange Ball with Recorded Sound In the fall of 1980, an orange, glowing UFO was observed to move at low altitude and slow speed along the Columbia River starting around the Sauvie Island area and proceeding up river to cross the I-5 bridge, which connects Portland and Vancouver. I-5 is the main Oregon/Washington artery. It disappeared somewhere around the Government Island area, which is near Portland International Airport. The UFO was observed by a policeman who called a local radio station at the time of observation, and the radio station recorded a sound thought by the policeman and other witnesses to be emanating from the UFO. The UFO sound recording was later sent on to the Center for UFO Studies, where it was eventually analyzed by a highly qualified acoustics expert. The expert concluded that the sound on the tape would have been almost impossible to duplicate in the open-air situation of its recording. [Ed. I have more detail on this case if interested] Lois and Joan Lois and Joan live less than a mile from the Farms pasture where mutilations #1, #2, and #3 were found. Their rented house is right on Lower River Road back toward Vancouver from the pasture. Late one night they both heard loud noises akin to farm machinery in the direction of the Farms pasture from their house. They thought this was odd since they had never heard 'farm machinery noise' so late at night in their more than two years of living in this location. About two years earlier, Marty and Shawn witnessed typical UFO activity Q anomalous lights and a UFO itself Q along Lower River Road and in the environs around their house. Rachel Rachel, a neighbor and friend of Richard Fazio, lives north of the Fazio property along Lower River Road in an old farm house. She goes past the Fazio property every workday at night since she worked in Vancouver cleaning offices at night during the period of the Fazio mutilations. During one night around 3 AM when she was routinely driving north along Lower River Road back home after working at her night time office cleaning job, she noticed two lights in a field. This was the same field that mutilations #1, #2, and #3 were found. The two lights were very near the location of mutilations #1 and #2. These two small, white/yellowish lights and their movement brought to mind the thought that two people must be looking for something in the field with flashlights. However, she was spooked enough by the sight of lights 'that weren't supposed to be there at that time of night' that she thought better of her first impulse to stop and investigate. She drove on to her house and didn't return. After the October mutilation, the Fazio's have reported no new mutilations.

was pretty easy to find. I forwarded contact info to Bruce. I think this might yield some really useful info. McPheters is retired from FBI. runs a PI thing of his own. (edit) Remember, CSG inc. requires all information to be withheld from Skip Porteus and Galen Cook. Okay to post here though. (edit) McPheters was late 30s in 1980. Unclear if he would have been familiar with the geologist report. But, he was in the Portland office with Himmelsbach. He may be able to give us background on Himmelsbach or the clay layer report.

this seems like a good find. http://books.google.com/books?id=fF4urADqI48C&pg=PA138#v=onepage&q=&f=false BRUCE: if you can find this guy and interview him, that would be cool. His book was just published in 2009. memoirs. Title Agent Bishop: True Stories from an FBI Agent Moonlighting As a Mormon Bishop Author Mike McPheters Publisher Cedar Fort, 2009 ISBN 1599553171, 9781599553177 Length 273 pages Agent Mike McPheters worked hijackings out of Miami in 1971. In 1980, he apparently was up in the Portland Division, FBI. In 1980 he became part of the Portland SWAT. Other interesting stories in the book. He says he found some money while they were searching after the Ingram find from the above link/page "While sifting through a parcel of the beach assigned to me, I turned up portions of soil containing pieces of paper currency approximately two inches wide, but still containing serial numbers that matched Cooper's demand money. I preserved each piece as evidence by storing them in plastic bags, tagging them with my initials and the date and case number. I kept digging. By late that night and with the help of a good rake, I had found numerous pieces of the money, all of which matched up. I documented my discovery as one of the most interesting reports I had ever written." What's interesting to me, is how Ckret protested the dredge story. The pieces of bills found, seem to support the dredge story more. If the story of McPheters money find is true, it's another example of where Ckret didn't know basic stuff, or withheld it from us. (edit) I've since researched McPheters more. He's the real deal. Interesting full life.

are mentioned in this report, page 10 and on. http://oregonmufon.com/PDFs/CattleMutilationsAndUFOs.pdf This is a great background report for you Bruce. It has a lot of detail about the Fazio incident. There were also other cow mutilations in OR Spring and Summer 1989, near Bend, La Pine and Fort Rock, OR 35 carcasses. page 11 has the picture and locations of the Fazio cow mutilations (attached, along with the lab report) Interestingly, everyone will recognize the area from our study of Tena Bar. Vancouver Cattle Mutilations • When and where: June to October 1990, outside of Vancouver, WA, along the Columbia River on New Columbia Garden Farms, Inc., property. • Evidence: Five carcasses of cattle, photos, veterinarian examination, OSU Diagnostic Veterinary Lab report. • Description: Owner Richard Fazio found eventually five cattle mysteriously mutilated on his property. He called the Clark County sheriff’s office. They investigated, but never suspected or prosecuted anyone for killing the cattle by cutting out hunks of them. • Investigators Carlo Sposito and Keith Rowell in cooperation with the Clark County sheriff’s department pursued the investigation. • Vancouver veterinarian Randy Lee oversaw the dissection of the last mutilated cow (#4). • Tissue samples were sent to the Oregon State University Diagnostic Veterinary Laboratory. • The mutilated cattle were clustered within a mile in three different fenced pastures. • Cow #1 was discovered by a field hand. Fazio called the sheriff’s department. They took information and called Randy Lee to examine it. He found no bullet holes. • Fazio, Sposito, and Rowell discovered cow #3 in the same field. Cursory examination was made and photos were taken. Cow #3 was in rigor mortis (dead within 36 hours earlier). • Cow #4 (a steer) was discovered by Fazio north of #1, #2, and #3. Sposito, Rowell, Fazio, and Lee participated in a dissection. Blood samples and tissue samples were taken. Video and photos were taken. • All cattle showed at least some of the typical anomalous cattle mutilation characteristics: removal of eye(s), ear(s), tongue, hide around the mouth, rectum, udder, vagina, penis, belly skin, sometimes inner organs, etc. • Cow #2 was discovered by another field hand. Fazio called in Sposito and Rowell since the sheriff’s department was not interested any longer. • In October, Sposito interviewed two women neighbors of the New Columbia Garden Farms property. • The neighbors were well acquainted with “normal” farm machinery sounds during the day and night. • However, during the general timeframe of the mutilations in late summer, they heard strange sounds that they could not reasonably attribute to “normal” farm machinery sounds. • Sposito also located and interviewed a woman who worked as a late night custodian at a local Vancouver business. One evening driving home in the AM she was startled by a “little man” apparently carrying a “flashlight” in the same pasture as mutilations #1, #2, and #3. Graphic photos are on page 16-18 of the pdf (not attached) such as pics of Cow #4: Classic “cookie cutter” (serrated), non-scavenger caused excision, heat hardened. Pics of cows with missing eye, penis, rectum. Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory Report, OSU attached (from page 19) Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory Report, OSU Randy Lee sent a tissue specimen consisting of "fixed tissue" from a "hereford cross steer" male, 2 years old, which was received by the lab on 12 February 1991. Madeline A Rae, DVM, signed the "Report of Laboratory Examinations". The “Pathologist Report” states: “HISTOPATHOLOGY: Sections of skin from a steer are examined. All sections display moderately severe post-mortem autolysis. The notched edge does exhibit a band of coagulation necrosis consistent with a heat induced incision, such as with an electrosurgical unit. Numerous bacteria are present on the skin, except in the area of coagulation necrosis. This is consistent with a specimen collected via electrosurgical excision. DIAGNOSIS: Coagulation necrosis of the skin. COMMENT: It is not possible to tell whether this lesion was caused by a laser. It does appear consistent with a heat-induced injury.” starting on page 26, it goes thru a checklist of the possible causes: • Basically, there are only five theories: (1) Natural causes: predators, lightning, poison, sickness. (2) “Crazy” guy with a knife. (3) (Satanic) cult activity. (4) Covert (U.S.) government activity. (5) UFO-related activity. • Which one fits the evidence the best? The evidence seems to support UFOs best (page 35) more so than Covert activity (page 33) Conclusion • The theories in order of increasing plausibility when all the evidence is considered are: (1) Natural causes: predators, lightning, poison, sickness. (2) “Crazy” guy with a knife. [Ed. Cooper?] (3) (Satanic) cult activity. (4) Covert (U.S.) government activity. (5) UFO-related activity. •Only UFOs really fit all the facts and evidence. But authorities can’t acknowledge this. Thus, animal mutilations will remain officially a mystery.

I've been interested in studies of trash and wood debris in rivers. Here's one (4MB) that while not the Columbia, is Pacific Northwest, and talks about wood debris in rivers, flowing out to the ocean. Some nice data in it. also data on the type of organisms that start feeding on the wood. they have some estimates of the total amount of wood that travels into the ocean per year. It's enormous. (billions of board-feet) some nice historical photos (of wood) http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/229chpt4.pdf

we're talking again, about the position of the money on the exposed sand, vs water levels in 1980. I'm thinking there's just no way to connect the money position, to water levels, and have any meaning. That's because the money condition tells us nothing about how long the money was there. When Kennewick Man was discovered, the police that responded to the scene actually found some floating bones. How long was Kenniwick Man buried at his site? and where did he come from? http://books.google.com/books?id=81_EUr-q_PkC&pg=PA27&dq=kennewick+man+floating+bones#v=onepage&q=kennewick%20man%20floating%20bones&f=false Four bones had dark brown stains. Very nice photos of the bones here http://www.nps.gov/history/aad/kennewick/walker.HTM The Kennewick remains were all recovered along the shore of the Columbia River at the base of the river's bank. Although none of them were recovered in situ, all of the larger fragments occurred within a 12m area (Chatters 2000). This suggests recent exposure. Bones rapidly become sorted through fluvial transport (Aslan and Behrensmeyer 1996) with lighter, more porous bones, (e.g., vertebrae, patellae, and phalanges) being transported farther than heavy bones (e.g., limb bones and mandibles). .. Our observations confirm the conclusion of Powell and Rose (1999). The preponderance of the evidence indicates that these are the remains of a single individual who was interred at the site instead of being left to decompose on the surface of the ground, or incorporated into the deposit through some catastrophic hydrologic event. This conclusion is consistent with the completeness of the skeleton and the absence of any clear indications of carnivore activity. Our taphonomic analysis clearly shows that the skeleton had been exposed on the riverbank for a relatively short period of time prior to discovery. We've gone over all the photos we have from various dates. In reviewing them, the amount of exposed sand varies. The 5/02 photo has the least sand showing and is interesting to look at. I didn't create another montage but attached (these have been posted before) are: the montage of 8-9-70 9-6-74 9-49-79 Google earth: 7-15-90 7-24-00 5-02 7-05 (i had posted these when GE started including historical imagery capability) (edit) Comparing georger's photo, to where I identified "money find from FBI aerials" ...I notice I'm a little off. It appears that the money find is a little bit S of where the dirt/gravel road curves closest to the columbia....so I should be a little more to the right, say, in the 2002 snap. I suppose that little building on the right close to the beach, might be the building visible in georger's photo from 1980. (edit) in looking at it again, the road has a double curve. so it's unclear. It's amazing how close it is to the 2nd dredge plume from '74 (see the montage photo).

for Farflung: I was just searching and noticed georger had posted a nice subset of various images from the thread of the money dig in 1980 here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3636302;search_string=excavation%20photos;#3636302 I was looking at the first image (it was from a news video) Although there's some distortion, you can see the angle of Tena Bar beach in 1980. (attached) Now we don't know how much the angle changed over the years. We know it's different now, from reporting by Bruce. But you can guesstimate from this photo, a bit about how high the river would need to rise, to deposit the money "below the high tide mark" We've played with this issue before. I think georger posted some info about the water level variation around interesting dates. I guess, just seeing that brush only grows down so far, that the water, at some time, rises all the way up (and we know there's flooding that goes out to the road at some point in time). So maybe, the actual "spot" the money was found doesn't tell us anything. If so, then it shouldn't tell Fazio anything either. Fazio seems adamant on saying the position of the money find means something. I think the right answer is "There's nothing about the condition of the money found, that can be used to make some theory about the position of the money find, vs water levels" Isn't that right? There was some that was feared of Pew, and some that was feared of Flint; but Flint his own self was feared of me. Feared he was, and proud. They was the roughest crew afloat, was Flint's; the devil himself would have been feared to go to sea with them. Well, now, I tell you, I'm not a boasting man, and you seen yourself how easy I keep company; but when I was quartermaster, lambs wasn't the word for Flint's old buccaneers. Ah, you may be sure of yourself in old John's ship.

I'm looking at that side to side photo composite, of the initial searching at Tena Bar, before the backhoes trenched. The left photo is clearly the money find. But the right photo, that Georger supplied, doesn't seem to look the same. It has certain characteristics of the money find location, that are recognizable from recent Google Earth photos. But the sand seems smoother, and the outline of the water vs the sand seems different. I wonder if georger's photo is from some other time. It just seems different to me. It's possible I have the photo oriented wrong. But even flipped or reversed, the differences are still there. There is a strong curviness to the water/sand boundary in the known-good photo on the left. (edit) I thought it couldn't be resolved with changes in water height. But then I realized, that assumes the water/sand boundary retains its shape as the water level rises. If the sand profile changes with height, the water/sand boundary will change shape with water height changes. Maybe that's what's going on. The "dark sand" on the left photo, seemed to track the lower water level..which made me think the same curviness would be there at higher water levels. Unclear.

and the "dark sand" is? Its been two years and you havent figured that out yet? You must not want to know! Keeps your act alive I guess... are you a drunk? The dark sand is caused by ammonium nitrate, washed down from the Washougal. Traces of acetone and hydrogen peroxide were also found in it. However, I don't want to know.

Galen: Thank you for your inquiry. I have recently taken the reins as head of the Citizen's Sleuth Group. I am looking forward to a good year as we continue our intimate relationship with the FBI. In terms of you or others getting access to CSG-privileged information: you can kiss my ass. p.s. Did you see the National Geographic documentary? We are interested in other promotional events this year, and CSG would be interested in joint ventures, as long as audience numbers can be guaranteed. Sincerely yours, Snowmman President, CSG Founder, Snowmman Industries

You know, all these recent claims about the money being below the high tide water mark. I'm thinking that might be false? Or at least, more complicated than that. (high tide water mark from how recent???) Can't you see the high tide water mark in the picture on the left here http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=114192; the money find was above that water mark (the dark sand, I'm thinking, is where the water level changes due to tide) (edit) all of the fake C4 is sold. New stock in 3 months.