snowmman

I misremembered when I replied to Safe on the "other thread" with the night clerk The other two places Jo has frequented are suite101 and www.sitcomsonline.com. The "night clerk" showed up on the sitcomsonline threads, not the suite101 thread like I suggested I will post another message with the night clerk's postings. the two threads were http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=177140 and http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=146269 Jo was MsCooper These were 2005-2006 era here's one post Jo made about the night clerk: Jo posted on 07-16-2006, 03:35 PM: (this link should help you find it (scroll down a little and look for highlighted red "night clerk" http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?p=3216833&highlight=night+clerk+piano+bar#post3216833 "There was a witness who came forward after seeing Duane's pictures in the papers and magazines. He also called the FBI. This man was a night Clerk at a hotel just out of the airport gates. He told me about his call to the FBI when the composite and description hit the news. They came out and when he went to retrive the registration card they told him not to touch it and they put it in a plastic bag for fingerprints. Now in those days the registration consisted of you signing your name on a card with everyone else and your tag number --- address and such. He didn't know what name was the one that was used. I have repeatedly asked the FBI about this registration and Agent Hope said that it would have been checked out at that time and then destroyed. Evidence Destroyed???? I have told them that I would know Duane's handwriting regardless of what name he signed and that I had samples of his handwriting from 1943 till before his death as it changes with the times and ages and circumstances. The FBI HAS NEVER ACKNOWLEDGED THIS. I have made phone calls and sent emails regarding this subject over and over. The night clerks ex-wife verified his story. They both are nice people. He remarried and they all stayed friends. The night clerk told me that the hotel had a covered walk-way to a restuarant with a piano bar. This is the kind of place that Duane always sought out. If there was a piano bar in the area that is were he would be. I wanted to find out if anyone sang in that bar that night and for them to tell me what song or songs he may have sang. He did not need a microphone and his voice was better than Tom Jones or Englebert Humperdink (my opinion). That was the kind of sound his voice had. He would use a woman as a target and sing to her and touch her hand. The lady would have remembered this. Some piano bars do not allow anyone to sing along. I have tried to find piano bar players in the area that might have worked there, but I only found one and he didn't work that place. This night clerk freaked when he saw the picture of Duane in the papers or the magazine and went to a lot of trouble trying to find me thru Margie Boule a writer for a local newpaper (the name of the paper escapes me at this point)."

hey georger: you saw that soils report page I had posted that tested Vancouver Lake right (they were wondering if when they dredged it, they could use the spoils on farmland).. that had some ph stuff from back then. I know it's just "nearby". I attached it again. It's from 1972. It's a page from a longer report about dredging proposal there. here's another report that mentions an area of the Columbia closer to the ocean. (1978). It's kind of far away. attached jpg that shows it (top left, the box with the white cross..in the wide part of the bay) Title : Habitat Development Field Investigations Miller Sands Marsh and Upland Habitat Development Site Columbia River, Oregon. Appendix E. Postpropagation Assessment of Botanical and Soil Resources on Dredged Material. Descriptive Note : Final rept., Corporate Author : WASHINGTON STATE UNIV PULLMAN Personal Author(s) : Heilman,Paul E. ; Greer,David M. ; Brauen,Stanton E. ; Baker,Aaron S. Report Date : AUG 1978 Pagination or Media Count : 396 Abstract : This report describes the study area, methods, and resutls of habitat development experiments conducted at Miller Sands, a dredged material disposal site near the mouth of the Columbia River. The study consisted of investigations and experimental plantings on the older upland portion of the island and on the more recently constructed spit and marsh area. Soil analyses showed relatively uniform soil conditions with sand texture on both experimental sites. However, at the low elevation on the spit, silt and clay contents were higher than elsewhere. The soil was also very low in organic matter and nitrogen but had relatively high base status and pH, with the upland being about pH 6 and the marsh soils about pH 7. The phosphorus level was also relatively high, being above soil phosphorus levels found in adjacent natural soils. Although marsh soils were somewhat less oxidized at lower elevations, the soil was relatively well aerated and contained no sulfides or nitrides. There was some nitrate present on the upland, but prior to fertilization nitrate levels were very low in the marsh. Good plant growth was obtained with most species planted on the upland considering the late date of establishment in the fall of 1976. Hairy vetch showed particularly good early growth, but many plants died before maturity due to spring black stem disease. Fertilization was necessary for the establishment of most species even though competition from invading grasses greatly increased with application of fertilizer. Barley, red clover, white clover, and bentgrass produced flowers after the first year of growth, but seed production was poor.

You're talking about the posts on suite101? If so I've read them and concluded they were bogus. They're still available on the web. You could gather them up and present them in their best light for review here. (edit) I misremembered. The post in question was on sitcomsonline.com. I posted more stuff on this below, including the actual post.

What do you mean by bogus? Do you mean that the report of the letters were bogus, or that they had nothing to do with Cooper? I'm not sure what you're saying (asking?). It was in news articles. Are you asking for the news articles, or ??? How would you know anything about what the FBI has? None of us really do. If anything, stuff like the letters should point out how little we really know about the investigation, and how little Ckret has provided. (or any other agent involved over the years). georger's comment about what a real letter might look like, was more useful than just saying "bogus". Are you asking for the news articles? It's funny how you expect stuff to happen thru insults. (edit) oh ps. 377/georger. Not that it means anything but I found a report that said the LA Times version of the letter was typewritten. Apparently they were sent from Seattle? This is just from news articles. Doesn't really mean anything. But I suspect it triggered some investigation at the FBI. Ckret probably has the real letter. Be cool to see a copy of it.

Exactly! which reminds me. When I was younger, whether by chance or design, it seemed I ran into old guys a lot, and I would always keep my trap shut and listen to them for pearls of wisdom. I think the circumstances were more that I was the young cheap manual labor, and they were past their prime. Have you ever tried to lay block while an old mason with a bad back gripes at you the whole day? In any case, this old guy invited me to dinner after work with him and his wife, in their cabin. I think she actually did make an apple pie. We sat around in the living room, him in his comfy chair, spinning stories about life. As I recall, it all came down to this. He was talking about how he used to coach a pistol target shooting team. And they used to travel for meets. They were pretty successful. He leans forward, conspiratorily. It's obvious he's going to try to pass on the wisdom of the ages. "I used to get them up every hour the night before, to piss. That's what did it."

377, I agree the NYT letter is weird. And mailed to multiple papers. Some of it could be lies. But you're right that everything else would seem to make it bogus. in any case, I'll repost what I posted back when I was investigating "when" the FBI apparently was looking for a bald guy. I don't know what triggered that temporary description. from news articles somewhat weirdly connected, I tracked down the source of The Bald Man Theory...evidently on 4/29/72 newspapers reported the FBI had a theory Cooper was bald with a wig? Maybe this was a result of McCoy hijack, which was 4/7/72..captured 4/9/72 I mention this as part of the mythology about just what the "excellent description" really was or wasn't. Apr 29, 1972 - The FBI has concluded that "DB Cooper," the ransom hijacker of an airliner last November, is bald headed, according to the Bremerton Sun. From CLUE TO DB COOPER---'BALD,' PAPER SAYS - Los Angeles Times Apr 29, 1972 - .. search for Cooper, who escaped last Thanksgiving eve from a low flying Northwest Airlines 727 along with two parachutes and 'according to the Bremerton Sun. The newspaper said it learned from a reliable source the FBI is looking for a bald headed "DB but it ... From San Mateo Times (Newspaper) - April 29, 1972, Apr 29, 1972 - FBI agents have been showing residents here a photograph taken in front of a local wig shop and indications are that the suspect could be bald and be wearing a black wig. These are the most recent conclusions of the' FBI in its search for Cooper, who escaped last Thanksgiving eve from a low ... From San Mateo Times (Newspaper) - April 29, 1972,

Okay, I'm assuming we're all at least Level 3 Certified Cooper folk. But I can see that no one is going to pass the Level 4 Certification test. The phrase "I'm not a boasting man" in the letter above, is from Treasure Island, by Robert Louis Stevenson. One should also note I posted a picture of a pirate burying treasure on a beach long ago in this thread. I attached the news article that had the text of the letter I quoted. gentlemen of fortune are pirates. The cook, speaking, is Long John Silver, also known as Barbecue. page 68 of the 1919 edition of Treasure Island "Gentlemen of fortune", returned the cook, "usually trusts little among themselves, and right they are, you may lay to it. But I have a way with me, I have. When a mate brings a slip on his cable -- one as knows me, I mean -- it won't be in the same world with old John. There was some that was feared of Pew, and some that was feared of Flint; but Flint his own self was feared of me. Feared he was, and proud. They was the roughest crew afloat, was Flint's; the devil himself would have been feared to go to sea with them. Well, now, I tell you, I'm not a boasting man, and you seen yourself how easy I keep company; but when I was quartermaster, lambs wasn't the word for Flint's old buccaneers. Ah you may be sure of yourself in old John's ship"

The letter that was mailed to the Reno paper immediately after the hijack, was kind of bogus, so can be ignored. (the one with Oakdale, CA return address) But I just ran into the letter(s) that were sent out in December '71. I don't think the text of the letter has been posted so here it is. The week of Dec 15, 1971, the New York Times, The Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times and the Seattle Times each received a copy of a letter signed "D.B. Cooper". (edit) Just found that the LA Times note, at least, was typewritten. Also apparently the letters were from Seattle. The NYT letter said: "Sirs, I knew from the start that I wouldn't be caught. I didn't rob Northwest Orient because I thought it would be romantic, heroic or any of the other euphemisms that seem to attach to situations of high risks. I'm no modern day Robin Hood. Unfortunately I do have only 14 months to live. My life has been one of hate, turmoil, hunger and more hate; this seemed to be the fastest and most profitable way to gain a few fast grains of peace of mind. I don't blame people for hating me for what I've done nor do I blame anybody for wanting me to be caught and punished, though this can never happen. Here are some (not all) of the things working against the authorities: I'm not a boasting man I left no fingerprints I wore a toupee I wore putty make-up They could add or subtract from the composite a hundred times and not come up with an accurate description; and we both know it. I've come and gone on several airline flights already and am not holed up in some obscure backwoods town. Neither am I a psycopathic [sic] killer. As a matter of fact I've never even received a speeding ticket. Thank you for your attention." FBI got the letter(s) to study. Other letters: Portland Oregonian got one Dec 1, mailed in Portland. signed D.B. Cooper. Made of pasted up letters cut out of magazine (like another) "Am alive and doing well in Hometown P. O. The system that beat the system. D.B. Cooper" Another one received by the province paper in Vancouver B.C. was hand printed in ink and mimicked the hospitality reference from the Reno letter. "I enjoyed the Grey Cup game. Am leaving Vancouver. Thanks for the hospitality. D.B. Cooper" It's interesting that the NYT letter is substantially longer than the other obviously bogus ones. And remember the NYT letter was just 3 weeks or so after the hijack. (edit) I had previously noted there was a time (forgot the date..can search my posts) where the FBI apparently did temporarily think they might be searching for a bald person. (edit) Another note, 12/8/71. Note on index card with words clipped from newspapers. Mailed from Henderson. Addressed in block letters in pencil. "I'm your hero, the great D.B. Cooper, the cool hijacker turned paratrooper, who bailed out with the cash, shed no blood, caused no crash, but sure left old John Law in a stupor. Viva Las Vegas ... D.B. Cooper"

Got the money and chutes, but decided not to go. Interesting that Marvin's age was 49. Maybe that's a prime "Cooper-itis" age. Claimed he had bomb in a suitcase. Waving gun that turned out to be empty. 57 passengers. Wednesday night. Got $200k ransom and parachutes. Freed 50 passengers. Ordered plane to leave for unknown destination with seven crew members. Then handed over the empty .38 revolver to a stewardess. Boeing 727. Flight 633, over north Texas on the Oklahoma City to Dallas leg of a cross country flight from NY to LA. Forced it back to Oklahoma City. Demanded $550k and parachutes. Forced pilot to take off again, circle city for 3 hours. Ransom package only contained $200k.

Interesting I hadn't noticed this before...just two months before Cooper (exactly) There were a couple of crazy woman hijacks..I posted the mother/girlfriend/daughter succession before. It's weird how they called out "white woman" in this article. (she wanted to get two Black Panthers out of jail.) Like I said, all the elements of the Cooper hijack had been in prior hijacks. Dynamite. Ransom. Parachute. Chicago Tribune 9/25/71 "Federal sky marshals arrested a white woman armed with dynamite today only minutes before an American Airlines Boeing 727 was scheduled to leave the Detroit airport on a flight to New York." It was a 727, probably just by coincidence, not choice. Real dynamite, cordite fuses, and a pistol. Full article from Daily Sitka Sentinel 9/24/71 attached

His obituary states that he was stationed at Fort Ord in Monterey Bay, CA in the late 60s. Most speculation about the Zodiac seems to agree that he was either military or ex-military, most likely an Air Force man. Fort Ord was less than 100 miles from the the Zodiac's stalking grounds. Zodiac and Gossett were both between 5'8" and 6'0" and the most famous suspect sketch of the serial killer is a better fit for Gossett as he looked nearly 40 years ago than the Cooper sketches.

Numerous confessions by Gossett. Just as strong as anything Duane said. We've not named everyone before here, so here goes. All the confessor parties seem to be credible folks, who believed it. Galen Cook is a minor part of the story. Can be ignored. (I don't believe the Gossett thing. Just saying it's equal probability to Duane. Higher than it being me though.) (the wife video is somewhere, I have to find it again) (edit) found a comment post with cousin claiming "confession" to sister as well as the previously reported sons: http://tencartrain.com/?p=388 denying the truth of the fake story at the url above: comment #66 Gossett cousin on 06.06.08 at 9:28 pm This guy was not the real DB Cooper. My first cousin, Pratt William Gossett pulled off the heist. He confessed this to his sons on his death bed. He also told his sister who didn’t believe him because he had always lead such a “colorful” life. At one point in his life he changed his name to Wolfgang Gossett." attorney confessors from http://www.standard.net/live/news/138977/ That is, perhaps until sometime around 1977, when William "Wolfgang" Gossett marched into Richards' office. Richards was head of the state public defender's office for Weber, Davis and Morgan counties, and Gossett was his investigator. Richards recalled Gossett seemed eager to talk. "He came into my office and said, 'There's something I've got to tell you,' " Richards told the Standard-Examiner. "He said, 'You know, I'm D.B. Cooper.' " Richards' advice to Gossett was quick and to the point: "If it's a joke, don't spread it around. If it's true, don't tell anybody." The attorney has a gut feeling that Gossett, who was 73 when he died from a stroke in Lincoln City, Ore., in 2003, was indeed Cooper. "I thought it probably was true. I always knew him to be truthful." Over the years, Gossett shared his dark secret with several others, including a son, Greg Gossett, who lives in Ogden, and Jim Bjornsen, a close friend and attorney in Newport, Ore. Greg Gossett and Bjornsen were initially skeptical of William Gossett's claim. However, new information uncovered by Galen Cook, a Spokane, Wash., attorney who has been doggedly investigating the Cooper case for more than two decades, has changed their minds. "A lot that he had dug up dovetailed with what Wolfgang told me," Bjornsen said in a phone interview. "I believe William Gossett hijacked that airplane." Cook, who is working on a book chronicling his investigation that may be released by the end of the year, said William Gossett is the most credible Cooper suspect ever. Not only does William Gossett look almost exactly like the FBI composite sketch of Cooper, he also had extensive military training enabling him to safely jump from a jet in poor weather, Cook told the Standard-Examiner in a phone interview. "He had the opportunity, talent and motive to carry out the crime," he said.

(my italics) I thought the story Jo told was that the Night Clerk was interviewed by the FBI the day after the hijack, and recognized someone who checked in based on the composite they were showing that day (which we all know doesn't look like Weber..can post that early composite again). Then they took the register card, or page, and never returned it. So the Clerk remembered Collins based on that "composite match" event. If that's true, I'm not sure how the clerk could now say that the guy matched the composite then and now also matches Duane. Also, we've never heard that he was "peculiar" before. What was peculiar about him?

Hi safe, can you go thru the evidence and show which claim is more likely to be true, gossett or weber, and why? My take is that they are both equally likely. You've seen the videos of gossett's ex-wife and her belief that gossett was cooper, right?

Hi Safe, we were discussing this a bit back (again). When you say "on record" what record are you talking about? We never got further than some email some guy sent to Jo. Is there more than that? What signed statements are you talking about? Do you have a copy? (edit) My Roswell post is a real notarized affidavit. Everything I said there is true. How come that is given no credence?

nigel99, jokes can't bury the truth, which we all know about Roswell. Luckily Lt. Walter G. Haut made a sealed affidavit in 2002 to be opened after his death, which happened in 2007. Included below. Jo: I assume you are familiar with the CB broadcast after the MLK assasination that the FBI tried to cover up by saying it was a hoax. Duane was familar with CB so I thought you'd see the link. The white mustang was mentioned, which was spotted after the package was dropped off at Canipe Amusements Company. Duane's sense of humor was evident in the selection of weapon: Remington Gamester Model 760 .30-06 (edit) Which is more offensive? Jo's posts about MLK, or mine? DATE: December 26, 2002 WITNESS: Chris Xxxxxx NOTARY: Beverlee Morgan (1) My name is Walter G. Haut (2) I was born on June 2, 1922 (3) My address is 1405 W. 7th Street, Roswell, NM 88203 (4) I am retired. (5) In July, 1947, I was stationed at the Roswell Army Air Base in Roswell, New Mexico, serving as the base Public Information Officer. I had spent the 4th of July weekend (Saturday, the 5th, and Sunday, the 6th) at my private residence about 10 miles north of the base, which was located south of town. (6) I was aware that someone had reported the remains of a downed vehicle by midmorning after my return to duty at the base on Monday, July 7. I was aware that Major Jesse A. Marcel, head of intelligence, was sent by the base commander, Col. William Blanchard, to investigate. (7) By late in the afternoon that same day, I would learn that additional civilian reports came in regarding a second site just north of Roswell. I would spend the better part of the day attending to my regular duties hearing little if anything more. (8) On Tuesday morning, July 8, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7:30 a.m. Besides Blanchard, Marcel; CIC [Counterintelligence Corp] Capt. Sheridan Cavitt; Col. James I. Hopkins, the operations officer; Lt. Col. Ulysses S. Nero, the supply officer; and from Carswell AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard's boss, Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey and his chief of staff, Col. Thomas J. Dubose were also in attendance. The main topic of discussion was reported by Marcel and Cavitt regarding an extensive debris field in Lincoln County approx. 75 miles NW of Roswell. A preliminary briefing was provided by Blanchard about the second site approx. 40 miles north of town. Samples of wreckage were passed around the table. It was unlike any material I had or have ever seen in my life. Pieces which resembled metal foil, paper thin yet extremely strong, and pieces with unusual markings along their length were handled from man to man, each voicing their opinion. No one was able to identify the crash debris. (9) One of the main concerns discussed at the meeting was whether we should go public or not with the discovery. Gen. Ramey proposed a plan, which I believe originated from his bosses at the Pentagon. Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location. Too many civilians were already involved and the press already was informed. I was not completely informed how this would be accomplished. (10) At approximately 9:30 a.m. Col. Blanchard phoned my office and dictated the press release of having in our possession a flying disc, coming from a ranch northwest of Roswell, and Marcel flying the material to higher headquarters. I was to deliver the news release to radio stations KGFL and KSWS, and newspapers the Daily Record and the Morning Dispatch. (11) By the time the news release hit the wire services, my office was inundated with phone calls from around the world. Messages stacked up on my desk, and rather than deal with the media concern, Col Blanchard suggested that I go home and "hide out." (12) Before leaving the base, Col. Blanchard took me personally to Building 84 [AKA Hangar P-3], a B-29 hangar located on the east side of the tarmac. Upon first approaching the building, I observed that it was under heavy guard both outside and inside. Once inside, I was permitted from a safe distance to first observe the object just recovered north of town. It was approx. 12 to 15 feet in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet high, and more of an egg shape. Lighting was poor, but its surface did appear metallic. No windows, portholes, wings, tail section, or landing gear were visible. (13) Also from a distance, I was able to see a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin. Only the heads extended beyond the covering, and I was not able to make out any features. The heads did appear larger than normal and the contour of the canvas suggested the size of a 10 year old child. At a later date in Blanchard's office, he would extend his arm about 4 feet above the floor to indicate the height. (14) I was informed of a temporary morgue set up to accommodate the recovered bodies. (15) I was informed that the wreckage was not "hot" (radioactive). (16) Upon his return from Fort Worth, Major Marcel described to me taking pieces of the wreckage to Gen. Ramey's office and after returning from a map room, finding the remains of a weather balloon and radar kite substituted while he was out of the room. Marcel was very upset over this situation. We would not discuss it again. (17) I would be allowed to make at least one visit to one of the recovery sites during the military cleanup. I would return to the base with some of the wreckage which I would display in my office. (18) I was aware two separate teams would return to each site months later for periodic searches for any remaining evidence. (19) I am convinced that what I personally observed was some type of craft and its crew from outer space. (20) I have not been paid nor given anything of value to make this statement, and it is the truth to the best of my recollection. Signed: Walter G. Haut December 26, 2002 Signature witnessed by: Chris Xxxxxxx http://roswellproof.homestead.com/haut.htm

Interesting thoughts, georger. For people who didn't catch it, "The Peddlers' Shop" was the name of Duane and Jo's store in Pensacola. I always thought it was an odd name. Reminded me of the phrase "drug peddler" :) But georger could be right...it does reveal a little about how the owner might think about things? My reading is that it used Peddlers' in the plural, not in the singular Peddler's. (edit) I remember being in a comedy club in Florida in the '80s. Guy comes in with all these women, takes a huge table. He has I guess an early cell phone..one of those big blocky things. The comedian starts making jokes about him dealing drugs, and picks up the phone ...it rings and there's actually someone calling in looking to buy...the comedian got all flustered...that was funny.

There is one passenger who was actually on a hijacked plane twice. (two different hijacks) Weird huh?

He apparently did have a knife, to cut the parachute cords. He asked Tina to sit next to him. There was at least one other hijack where the hijacker held a knife to a stewardess's throat. (I think that hijacker was shot/killed in the end). I always wondered about why Cooper had a knife. Maybe that was his backup weapon? Actually the knife as weapon was common..here's two: 4 Cubans Hijack Jetliner With 93 to Havana; New York Youth and Girl... New York Times - Feb 4, 1969 It was Captain Moore's second hijacking and Eastern's fifth this year. ... One of them held a seven-inch steak knife at the throat of a stewardess, ... Passenger Thwarts Plane Hijacking New York Times - Jan 7, 1970 The hijacking attempt was made shortly before 5 A.M., when Delta's Flight ... Sharon Eeresford, pressed a six-inch knife to her throat and demanded that he ...

Tonite's thoughts. last two maybe interesting 1) 1971: passenger jets and widespread civilian skydiving were new technologies. I always thought of the Cooper hijack as a technology exploit. In searching for modern matches, my current best: Hijack an armed Predator UAV. First thought: "No way". Second thought "Hmm..Actually have no idea if possible, or impossible; what makes it impossible?" 2) "The Peddlers' Shop". Being in Florida, it makes sense that Duane was dealing drugs, if he was doing any crime. 3) If the money got to Tena's Bar by water, it seems like the Columbia is the only, sole, mechanism that seems to fit well? If that's true, then if the money fell in the Columbia, it's likely Cooper did too if he no-pulled (even if money bag lost in air), because of the width of the Columbia. It's also reasonable for the body to not be found in the Columbia. I provided the case of the pilot from Textronix whose body was never found. There's also a chance of Cooper landing in the Columbia if he successfully deployed, in this scenario. But that would cause likely drowning and a more likely body find, because of the canopy?. So it would seem to push things slightly to no-pull. I can't think of anything that supports the money being transported other than by the Columbia. 4) Cooper had minimal skydiving experience. He was able to don the NB-6 rig without instruction, but it seems like a simple rig to figure out (although he might not have cinched up the straps..just clipped the various snaplinks?) Assume there was no pressure bump recorded, no test drop, no oscillations. Assume Cooper meant to jump near Seattle, missed the opportunity. Where would be the next place he'd jump, assuming stairs open before Lake Merwin? Best guess by Cooper might make, assuming he's a dolt that didn't control the flight path, would be that they'd be flying back towards Portland. But not guaranteed. So if you don't know where you are, you jump when you see some lights. It would be absolutely insane to jump into the dark. So spotting the lights, which turn out to be Portland/Vancouver, aligns with hitting the Columbia.

maybe, But I just brainstorm'ed the real way I'm going to flush out D.B. Just need a little help from a couple million others of like mind. (attached). BTW, I agree on the 'ordinary" aspect. The lack of wide publication of the successive successful jumps, plus the lack of context in hijack history, which would show that Cooper's progression was almost predictable, rather than extraordinary, makes me think that even though he jumped first, it's not enough to ascribe anything supremely identifiable to Cooper based on that act. Most every detail of what he did can be shown to have elements in prior hijacks. Ransom, Chute, Bomb. etc. Now if he had grabbed the controls and flew the plane, that would have been a real first.

REPLY> surges exactly, been thinking the same line of thought. The whole situation with the Columbia and its tributaries is a series of surges - yearly cycles. (see attached) But I think the route by water to T_Bar is fairly specific and the result of a number of forces working together. Jo has always commented its open main channel water to the other side straight across from Tina Bar, and I think she's right on the money, as it were. One thing to think about in terms of myths. We've kind of accepted this idea that high water levels could be connected to the money find...really just because H. talked it up way back when. We know that if it was water transport, we probably needed water levels up to a point to get it on shore where it was found. From the pictures we have of the shoreline slope, the water level needed doesn't seem to be that much...it almost looks like every winter, from the data you have, the water might have been high enough to move money to the level where it was found (have to analyze that thesis more though). In any case, the notion of "high water levels" being part of a water transport theory, is kind of just a myth at this point...although it might help connect it to other theories, like being on dry land for a while. But I'm thinking a reasonable theory is money being buried in sand almost immediately in '71, and being moved over time. Maybe arriving at Tena Bar post '74 and being buried there. Just wanted to say there's nothing I know of that "requires" extremely high water levels so far? (edit) to be clear though, it might be reasonable to say "surges" are more important, since the money couldn't just be moving every year? So maybe one or two dramatic moves, as opposed to continual movement.

that's good daily data georger. I'll have to plot it. One interesting thing it provides: we were musing about the rate of change of water levels...i.e. how much the level might change in just one day...that data has it there. (edit) I'm thinking that it's not just high water levels, that's interesting, but 'surges'...since that implies sudden dramatic shifts in hydraulic forces? just thinking out loud. (edit) in looking at daily deltas, it appears that there are some instances where a '0' reading is incorrect, as it implies the day-to-day change is too dramatic. I'm thinking that maybe a 0 in that set of data should be considered potentially bad data and ignored?

I previously posted after a long search flooding in 77 was documented, not a 100 year flood but flooding none the less. I wont dig and add the attachment again - it is with my previous post on this subject. georger, I replied to your post Sept 11, 2008 with a link to a corps of engineers report that confirmed what you said. I'll repost again: (edit) to be fair to what Jo's saying though, we don't have any detailed info about the Fazio ranch area though, in 1977? my 9/11/08 post: interesting document here: http://www.usace.army.mil/publications/misc/un24/c-15.pdf page 9 describes Portland District floods and flood control. Heavy winter rains in '71 and '72 '72 floods in northwest/west Oregon. '72 flood prevention effort. Temporary sand plug at the lower end of the Columbia Slough in Portland, to prevent flooding of North Portland neighborhoods. 100,000 cubic yards of sand spread over the railroad embankment west of Delta Park golf course. They say these two things helped prevent flooding. page 10 Jan '74 had flooding Nov,Dec '77 had flooding, as you (georger) say. So: the Columbia may have had high water levels in '72 and '74 also.

I was just watching Pinks All Out. What got my attention is that in the 2nd season, they now have Corona Girls in the winners circle. On the # of posts. If I look at the count, skyjack71 is still outgunning me. More steam! Why do I do it? For the money. I've tried to tell quade I'm losing money on every post, but he assures me I'll make it up in volume.