snowmman

and it didn't cost me a dime.. ...I did a little facegen from the Lost Boy photo. You can see there are some facial relationships...chin line, nose/eye/chin/ear distances that you can get from the photo sort of. I didn't really get it that good, and the face is a little older, but it's interesting to compare. ..... So we drilled it out so that he would fit And with a little bit of help with a surgeon's kit We had that hijacker runnin' just like a song Now the eyeballs were another sight We had two on the left and one on the right But when we pulled on the ears all three of 'em opened up. Now up to now my plan went all right Till we tried to put Duane together one night And that's when we noticed that something was definitely wrong. The wife was from the seventies, the daughter from '45 And when we tried to put the chute on, the holes were all wrong. -The Real Man In Black

I thought we've posted those pics before. I know I had found some. The stairs were removed if I remember right?

actually 377, it think of like watching a movie. Would you have predicted one of the main characters would pull a plastic-covered, water damaged 50+ year old photo out of their pocket, where all features are obscured except for one ear, and throw it down on the table, saying "Here!, here's the proof you need. Now you you believe me? Now do you believe the aliens were on board?" .....and then at that moment the aliens burst thru the wall, and everyone turns and someone opens up with the M240A1 Incinerator Unit. ...okay maybe not the last part. More likely Ripley would have a M41A1 Pulse Rifle.

Okay I allocated 15 minutes to doing a photoshop touch up. I realized you could make the picture anything you wanted, but I tried to stay disciplined and only mess with trying to expose what was there, not add in any idea of what someone might want. One significant thing is that there was a right eyeball that had shifting up, I think separated with the water damage. I selected that out as a layer and shifted it to where I thought the eye should be. I went to b/w since there was no good info from color. The plastic highlights are a pain. I got rid of some of them, but doing anything more aggressive loses other detail. Attached is what I got. saying it could be duane, might not be wrong. (edit) one thing I made sure was to not use eraser/paint brush to draw outlines where I "thought" they should be. I used the magic lasso exclusively, till the end where i cleaned up some stuff down around the body, just cause the ragged edges were distracting (edit) orange pointed out: "Do those look like wisps of hair? Then long hair tied back rather than short hair. " I suppose we would need to revisit the younger Duane photos...but remember his hair was always funky in the pics...i.e. not straight.

good point Georger. I was thinking boy when I first saw it too. I had shorts with those kind of built-in suspenders in some b/w pics of me when I was about that age. not uncommon?

yes. Here's a secret learned from the early days of email. Whether you use email or post to a forum, use a tool to randomly delay the message. Good to get the boss thinking you're working late. Also that way people can't tell where in the planet you are. Just a small extension to automate the text content also. The sun is always shining on the DBC thread, somewhere. "“Nothing is softer or more flexible than water, yet nothing can resist it” -Chuang Tzu

The scriptwriters are going nuts here trying to keep up, and are threatening a strike. Just to be clear: there could be a million reasons Duane wanted a photo of Chevron Man, none of them having anything to do with DB Cooper. Orange1, I thought your random guess was actually brilliant. It hadn't occured to me. It does make sense that maybe some of the odd behaviors in Duane's life are connected to pieces of his past that Jo doesn't have detail on, but Duane did. i.e. not hijack, but past wives, especially if there's a child. How did Duane get away with no child support? did Zona's mom just blow him off and never contact him? I would think it likely she remarried.

orange1 mused: The scriptwriters are going nuts here trying to keep up, and are threatening a strike. I've tried to tell them that it's a must-have that the money turns out to be counterfeit, and that there was a switch made when the money was being delivered to Cooper....i.e. the bank guy got the money. But they won't go with that. They want to put Dunbar in a parachute.

it's weird that the picture is wrapped in plastic. What I don't like is that Jo seems to let hang in the air the speculation that the water or ?? damage may have happened related to our event? Jo: you said the water damage happened while the photo was in your possession? is that correct? Why is there plastic on the photo? Sluggo: isn't what you say insane? Grab hold of yourself. There is no sliver of anything that would connect the possibilities you suggest. All it would show would be that you connect two random things with some degree of probability given a misuse of technology..i.e. it's easy to con people.

ah thanks 377. I used to search more before I would say anything, but don't give it as much effort now. Maybe that explains why the fabric side walls aren't in the md-88 pic but are in the 727 pic. I'm not totally confident it was a md-88. here's another pic from the same place that shows the outside, maybe you can ID it as md-88 rather than 727. I had commented before that it was hard to find pics of all the planes with rear stairs, so maybe this post isn't a waste. I thought the history was that not all DC-9's had the rear stairs? That one guy who went out the back of a DC-9...they talked about the exit being "little used" and I always wondered if it was a smaller exit than the 727...but these pics seem to be about the same size as the 727 stairs...the md-88 was later though as you say. Don't think I have a good dc-9 rear airstair photo 377: can you confirm this looks like a md-88? (edit) in fact, now that I look at it, it's obvious because of the stair tread height that the lower stairs must fold down??? is that correct? (edit) another different md-88 (apparent?) pic added

Is that Duane's daughter Zona?

“In a river mist, if another boat knocks against yours, you might yell at the other fellow to stay clear. But if you notice then, that it's an empty boat, adrift with nobody aboard, you stop yelling. When you discover that all the others are drifting boats, there's no one to yell at. And when you find out you are an empty boat, there's no one to yell.” ”The fish trap exists because of the fish. Once you've gotten the fish you can forget the trap. The rabbit snare exists because of the rabbit. Once you've gotten the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words exist because of meaning. Once you've gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words so I can talk with him?”

Jo, the thread can't crash. It's not possible. Let's try an experiment. Anyone out there. Do you worst. Do whatever. Quade might nail some folks, but the thread will never die. Isn't that scary? DZ.com will have to die first? or 2**32 in some form? (edit) Jo said: "what is going on.....and there is a LOT going on....." I mistyped. There is no offshore account. Repeat..no account offshore, being accounted for offshore.

Jo doesn't bother me. Honestly it makes me happy to imagine her learning new tricks with technology. Scanners etc. She even said "pixels". Isn't that cool for an older woman like Jo? Here we are, the S&P500 back down to maybe May 1997 levels, and I'm trying to get Orange1 to open some kind of offshore account for everyone here, with 377 running the legal song and dance... but we can post all this cool pics and videos and yell at each other and search massive amounts of info that we couldn't in '97, like old newspapers, and weren't those pics of the Braniff 727 cool? no comments on those? Did the lower part of the air stairs slide out or fold down? In the shadows you can see stair treads and it got me thinking the lower part must fold out? Got me wanting to look at the FBI drop test photo again to see if they had stairs fully deployed and whether full deployment is required to get out (I think we covered this already). Jo winning? I think the coolest thing would be to have Jo with her own website and blog. That's what people do. There are bazillions of people out there, all with their particular "thing". That's what the whole web is, and what billions of dollars was spent on. lonely/looney? well I know I am sometimes, and yeah I sit at my computer and see posts come in. I didn't realize that was a bad thing. (any of those things). Hey the CIA/FBI is not so sophisticated as you imply georger...look at this exchange that was considered "intelligent conversation" Our tax dollars paid for this insight: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480261,00.html WASHINGTON — Why haven't we captured bin Laden? It is one of the most common questions CIA Director Michael Hayden gets asked, and one whose answer has eluded him in the 2 1/2 years he has headed the agency. Hayden, now in the final weeks of his tenure at the CIA, told FOX News in an exclusive television interview that he decided to press his own sources for the best information available. "[I asked] one of the best people we have, the head of our counterterrorism center, and I went up to him and said 'You know I get asked this question a lot ... help me here, why haven't we captured him?'" he said. Hayden said he was not trying to trivialize the issue, but the answer he got was surprisingly simple. "He kind of leaned forward and said: 'Because he's hiding.'"

Jo: It would be useful if you did your same morphing experiment with a photo of someone (clean shaven) who in your view doesn't match the composite. By just showing Duane, you could be just doing an experiment that shows anyone can match. You have to show that your Duane experiment is a better match than other photos. Use some of the photos I provided. That would help your case, showing Duane is a "better match" if you believe he is. If there's no real "better", then all this talk about photos is really just a waste of time? (edit) And Jo: how about some hi res photos on Picasaweb, or Google Sites? Did you try getting that setup? Imagine if you had a simple little Google Site with all your info, descriptions, details, and questions. You could get thousands of people to peruse it and maybe get you your missing info. Heck there might be people still alive from the MO prison that might remember duane...you could just drop the url into all sorts of sites, and drive all sorts of traffic there. Heck I'd make a youtube video for you at my dbcooperxfiles channel for you to point people to your site! If not too spooky, I'd animate Duane saying "go to ..." :) You need to think about getting new clients/customers, not just beating on us relentlessly. Generate new high res data for your own blog/site. Heck it'd be really cool if you typed a couple sentences each day in a blog to say what your current focus was on. That's what all these bloggers do.

from http://www.funnyairlinestories.com/stories/single_story.asp?id=137 "Eastern was taxiing out on a 727 when the Flight Engineer noticed the amber airstairs unlocked light illuminated. The Captain said he better check it out. After depressurizing the aircraft the F/E headed aft. Looking though the porthole in the aft entry door, he saw daylight at the top of the airstairs. He opened the door, turned on the light and was reaching for the handle to secure the airstairs when the aircraft hit a bump on the taxiway. The F/E lost his footing and stepped on the moveable part of the airstairs. Since it was already unlocked, that was all it took. The airstairs fell down by gravity and the F/E tumbled down the stairs and onto the taxiway. He was kind of dazed but as he looked up, he observed his airplane taxiing away. The F/E got up and charged back towards the airplane. Delta in back observed the unbelievable action and got on the radio advising Eastern to slow down to let their Engineer catch up. The Eastern Captain had no idea what that was all about but slowed up anyway. The Engineer caught up to the airplane, ran up the airstairs, raised it up and locked it this time. Then he tucked in his shirt and started back to the cockpit. The passengers were wondering what was going on as he passed since he looked like he had had a losing round with Mike Tyson. He was covered with oil and hydraulic fluid spots and his uniform had a number of holes in it. A strange odyssey, but a lot better than having the airstairs fall open during takeoff. Braniff Airways - B-727 Flight Engineer 4/27/2004"

The cover of LIFE magazine, 8/11/72 had a very nice picture of a half-deployed 727 airstair in flight. It was Braniff N4038N I don't think this was an actual hijack. However the photos are very good. The lower part of the stairs are not deployed, and the stairs are only (apparently) half open. But you can imagine being able to duck out and jump even so. It raises an interesting question about the "pressure bump" I think the drop test was done with the lower stairs fully deployed also? (edit) No that doesn't make sense, right? because on the bump up, the lower stairs would impact the fuselage?? Maybe after the stairs bump up, they drop down again to this angle..i.e. not fully closed. And I guess as we said, they lower if weighted. I don't think the lower stairs were removed here..do they normally slide out from the upper stair portion? I don't know what would inhibit or cause that. Maybe the deployment is a two step operation? I thought maybe the photos had been faked in 1972, but the second photo has faint black plume coming out of two engines, so I think the plane really was in flight. although we've seen a bunch of them before, also attached another photo of a MD-88 (727) airstair from the Cooper vantage point so you can see the lower part of the stairs again. It's interesting in it's own right for an interesting reason: Note that fabric/nylon side walls under the handrails aren't there any more. Remember they were "shredded" on Cooper's stairs by the wind, (seen in the Reno pics). Maybe they were removed by the MD-88 time? or just this plane? (edit) you can see the nylon sidewalls in the Braniff photos.

okay thanks. That's complicated but I'll make some guesses about what you're trying to imply. It reminds me of another thing. In looking at the Ingram bills again, I'm wondering if what appeared to be insect holes are possible not due to insects. I was thinking dampwood termites or ants or something like that for a while. And guessing that they only live within some depth relative to the surface, and they would take some amount of time to create holes, and only during some part of the year? and maybe that could be used in thinking about the bills and how long they were exposed, or close to the surface...i.e. not fully covered by water and sand. But then I was thinking that the holes may not be insect and just local behavior of the paper "giving up" in a long term moist environment. Your comment about pores reminded me of that. Could the holes be just larger scale behavior related to the surface pitting?

Hi georger. I'm not sure what you might be implying. I doubt the bills were put in manila folders while wet. And if put in while dry, well, we saw the FBI folders for their 13-14 bills had staining. It's odd that it must have leached out of the bills? But if the bills were dry when stored then leaching like that would have to be some kind of organic chemical that soaked out. These photos were Ingram bills. We have no idea how Ingram bills were stored over time, I guess. Since they were delicate, I suppose they could have been stored in manila folders also. Plastic bags probably would have been bad because the bills would crumple. There could be a long term chemical transfer (acidic) from the manila folder to the bills. But why would it show up with stain edges like in that cropped bill I showed? And not uniform? I think the stain is left over from 1971-1980, not from storage. Can you clarify what you meant?

I'm just looking for stuff I might not have noted before. this crop, if you save it and zoom in, is good for seeing what appears to be surface pitting in the white area. Could be embedded sand like Tom talks about? also, the brown stain stuff, that was in the FBI folder, seems to be on the top edge of this bill..i.e. it displays the non-uniform brown (water?) staining. it's also one of the better ones for seeing the telltale threads in the paper. You can see a good red one near the right center if you zoom in. A really good test for Tom would be a tensile strength test. Or another test: When I was a kid, I went to a lab associated with a large paper company. (I'm just remembering) One thing I remember: they tested toilet paper, and they had a gizmo for testing it's resistance to puncture. I suppose that's another way of doing a strength test. But a strength test seems to be a standardized way of testing rate of decomposition. It would at least be a bit of scientific data that could be related to decomposition predictions.

I just found this page where this guy has taken photos of 3 ingram auction bills. There are photos of 3 Certificate of Authenticity's which I've not seen before. (nice because you can see Brian Ingram's signature..curiousity) Okay the COA's aren't interesting because the Bill on them is a low resolution scan. But the pictures of the bills in the holders seem very good. Maybe better than we've had before? I'm downloading them to see if any of them are higher resolution than what I provided from the cropped auction site bill photos before. Interestingly, the guy put his full name in the page, and with some of the info in other photos he put up, I suspect he would be findable, if there was any reason it would be nice to talk to a guy that had some of the Ingram bills (as opposed to the FBI bills) http://picasaweb.google.com/gabrielcmurphy/DBCooperNotes# (edit) at the url, click on the bill-in-holder images, then use the "download" tab at the top to download the highest res version of the photo again I'm guessing that he has the actual bills...but it seems like that is probable? Attached a quick crop from those photos (limited by 300KB..you can zoom in to see if it's better than we've had before or not) Jo; Note this picasaweb site shows what you could do if you go the picasaweb path for sharing your photos. Note how big his photos are...almost 4MB apiece

I'm just looking around at what the current free stuff for uploading stuff is. (I usually don't stay up on this) and there's actually some nice stuff. Jo: There are other alternatives now that I get my brain in gear. You could create a free blog pretty easily here: http://www.blogger.com/features Again if you create a gmail account like I mentioned before, that's your ticket in there. Or if you just want to upload photos, Google's Picasa has an online component: http://picasaweb.google.com/ It's optimized for just photos and is a really good tool for organizing your computer's photos. There are other services like Flickr (this is from the yahoo side of the tracks) http://www.flickr.com/ But your safest and easiest bet might be to get all Google compliant. (Sites, or Blogger, or Picasaweb) Plus: the higher tech you are, the more people will believe what you say.. win, win! (edit) I'm posting this in public so Jo can see that others review what I'm saying, so she can be confident I'm not trying to scam her. Nowadays, I wouldn't trust anything I get in a private communication, if I wasn't computer-literate.

Don't buy anything. you should be able to do whatever you need to with anything you've got or something free. Here's a better solution that will be less work for you long term, and provide highest quality photos for us to hunt down Chevron Man. Google has updated their free web site creator to something called "Google Sites" You can create a "Google Site" of your own, and upload pictures of any size (the highest resolution you can get) and then post the links here. That way you don't have to worry about the 300KB limit. You don't need to create a web page or anything, although Google Sites has some provisions for making that easy. I'll even handhold you thru it if you need it(via PM) You might start by creating a gmail account for anything google related. But you don't need to. You can probably just use your current email address and create a site here: https://www.google.com/accounts/NewAccount?hl=&service=jotspot you can read about Google Sites here: http://www.google.com/sites/help/intl/en/overview.html The main thing: You get 100MB of free online storage. I use Google Page Creator for the same thing, but that's been replaced by Google Sites. Maybe we'll have you blogging in no time, Jo! Just start by creating your Google Site account, and uploading a max-resolution-out-of-your-scanner photo, and posting the link here.

Orange1 said: "Should I blow up the photo and post it here to see who we can see in the foreground?" well obviously since you didn't, there must be incriminating info in it. An LDS temple was built in Johannesburg in 1985. It was the first in S.A. picture here: http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/johannesburg/ I find it a little too coincidental that we then find Orange1 taking pictures in SLC of the temples there, with unnamed people in them. With a Olympus 35mm? Possibly soon after the construction in Johannesburg? Why would Orange1 remember the camera? The photos were obviously important for some reason not-to-be-disclosed. Olympus Minox was a common "spy" camera. I used to have an Olympus XA which was pretty small for the times. http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Olympus_XA Why does Orange1 try to dismiss her camera as point-and-shoot? was it an XA? or maybe a Olympus Minox spy camera? What is she hiding? Maybe it was specially modified to shoot half-frames? Does Orange1 have a picture of the Chevron Man at the temple in Johannesburg? If so, does the coverup extend there? The distance between SLC and Johannesburg is 9957 miles. Given that the circumference of the earth is about 24900 miles, the maximum distance between any two places can be only about 12000 miles. So SLC is pretty close to "the farthest Orange1 could go". Why would she go so far? Was she trying to hide something? Twenties? Photos? ??? And Orange1 has never mentioned this tidbit before, even though it obviously relates to the evidence Jo has supplied? Why now? Hmm. Must consult Keynes again.

well, all I can contribute, is that I think I was in SLC 3 times in my life, although it's fuzzy. I remember one was winter. One was probably summer cause I remember the big lake, and how weird it was that there was heavy industrial stuff off in the distance that marred the view. I don't remember pictures taken in detail, but I do remember a Ford Escort rental car: manual transmission. I think red? With respect to hair transplants, my biology teacher in high school got some and liked to show everyone in class. Pretty nasty: was the plugs. His wife was cute and flirted with all the high school lacrosse players. She taught the speech class. Just trying to help. Use this info as it applies.