snowmman

Okay, we know Jo didn't see money and was guessing. But now it's obvious that what really happened was that Duane threw the piece of nylon into the Columbia. Why did Duane do that? And why is Jo keeping the video secret for 13 years. Is DB Cooper on the tape with Duane? Is Jo trying to pin it on Duane to cover for DBC? and is georger pawning off dog x-rays on us? Was DBC blind (sunglasses) and those are x-rays of his seeing eye dog? I'm confused. The vampire question is interesting. It was a half-moon (almost), and at night. Maybe we need Duane's dental records. Until we get those, he's for sure a suspect.

In my heart, I knew there had to be a Magruder tape. I knew it would surface, just a matter of when. Now we have to do the frame by frame analysis. Yes, I can see how Duane was probably skulking about, hiding from the camera. So it's a videotape? I thought you had said film at one point and was thinking 8mm or Super8. Is this some kind of VHS tape? A video of Duane at a party, obviously hiding from the camera, it's gotta be worth a couple million in distribution rights? (edit) I'm thinking of a Youtube release, so people could do some techno mashups. Tubes! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtOoQFa5ug8 Finally, there's evidence.

well, viruses and trojans work this way. It's a mistake to assume there is no control thread, though. The goal is always maximum penetration of the public domain. Allowing information to be slightly uncontrolled (in appearance) gives maximum dispersal. Jo is NOT a genius! Jo goes in predictable cycles and always will. Jo's mistake is in thinking SHE is in control. She isn't. She will never understand what went wrong. I see your point. But: let's be data-driven. As long as there are recent news/web articles being written that mention Duane Weber, still, then de-facto she has succeeded. Myself, I think Dan Cooper was a guy who was trying to imitate Duane Weber. I don't know why I think that. But Duane Weber is obviously part of the case for some reason, and the DBC imitates Duane theory is the only thing I can come up with. Maybe Duane was a terrorist cell leader? Maybe he trained a number of hijackers. I'm thinking the story needs to be bigger for when it becomes a video game. There needs to be more bad guys and more hijacks. Oh and we need extreme details on the various weapons Duane was connected with (handgun? rifle?)...I'm thinking that the player is Duane, and the different levels are the different parts of Duane's life. Hopefully there's enough movie/tape for accurate motion capture. Could Duane pick locks? It would be good if he could. You know what's cool about being a kid nowadays? You can learn how to pick locks off the web and you can order potassium nitrate online. Man, we were kids in the wrong era! :)

well, viruses and trojans work this way. It's a mistake to assume there is no control thread, though. The goal is always maximum penetration of the public domain. Allowing information to be slightly uncontrolled (in appearance) gives maximum dispersal.

Okay, Jo has introduced the notion of a secret video tape. Apparently it has video of Duane Weber and can be used to recreate his body motion. That's all we know so far. I did some quick research to see when this tape might have been made at the earliest, given the advent of home camcorders (guess it was done with a home camcorder) Interestingly, Sony first introduced a prototype videocassete in 1969. The format was called U-matic. But here's the scary thing, that shows an amazing connection. It was introduced to the market in September 1971, just two months before the 305 hijack. It was among the first video formats to have the videotape in a cassette, as opposed to open reel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umatic The U-matic format may not be directly related to the video tape Jo has kept hidden. But there's clearly a historical thread there, going back to two months before the hijack. Hopefully Jo will be able to tell us more about this.

This is weird. Most of the advanced human motion software is used in FPS video games, which provides the cash for "better". When Halo 3 was released, there were rumors that Duane Weber body motion was somehow captured and used in the game. Also: evidently one of the designers was a jumper and the "Halo" name was always sort of an in joke. I did a lot of search work, and I think the fighter in this trailer is based on the human body motion of Duane Weber, after he landed from Flight 305. Also: are the kids looking up at the night sky looking for Duane/Cooper? Did two kids really see Duane? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCsdPszJLNQ Why does it say "Finish the Fight" ?? That rhymes with "Hide in plain sight" which can be spelled (homonym) as "Hide in plane site" At first, I thought that meant something was hid on Flight 305. But now I'm thinking "plane site" is actually a cryptic reference to dropzone.com, which is a plane-related web site? Still not done spidering the web. Google's crawl of the web continually gets in my way. Ought to be a law. (edit) Note the US Army has my back on this post. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/events/playandwin/sniperschool/

Yes, those 3 words did indeed play into a bunch of the hijackings in the '70s. (violence was sometimes directed to hijacker, sometimes to others) Maybe we should discuss each, in detail. It's amazing how we can always find new leads to pursue.

There are a bunch of nice 727 videos on youtube. Some cockpit. You have to watch out because people put a lot of flight simulator vids up, and they can be realistic. This is a vid in the cockpit, for a 727 landing at night in Winnipeg. It's clear. You can see the city lights. (it's a real vid) We were talking about the field of view from a 727 cockpit, and the glow from Vancouver/Portland, in talking about what Rataczak might have meant in his comment about what he could see, before cooper jumped. The altitude here is probably a bit low since they were landing and there are no clouds. But it's interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMkSC68a15w Also, just as a curiousity, here's the flight tracking info (more than we have on 305) for a flight from Seatac to PDX just recently: 2/10/09. Route wasn't V-23? 28 minutes. Interesting he only went to 19000. Spent most of the flight descending? looks like the log is missing 1 or 2 minutes at the start. Time Ground speed Pacific TZ Latitude Longitude kts Altitude (feet) 11:48AM 47.35 -122.32 218 5900 level 11:49AM 47.29 -122.33 223 9300 climbing 11:50AM 47.20 -122.33 258 11900 climbing 11:51AM 47.10 -122.33 323 16200 climbing 11:52AM 47.00 -122.33 353 19000 climbing 11:53AM 46.89 -122.33 367 19000 level 11:54AM 46.79 -122.34 373 19000 level 11:55AM 46.69 -122.35 373 19000 level 11:56AM 46.58 -122.36 373 19000 level 11:57AM 46.48 -122.37 373 19000 level 11:58AM 46.38 -122.38 373 18600 descending 11:59AM 46.28 -122.39 361 16700 descending 12:00PM 46.20 -122.40 341 14600 descending 12:01PM 46.12 -122.41 329 12400 descending 12:02PM 46.04 -122.44 312 10300 descending 12:03PM 45.99 -122.52 273 9100 descending 12:04PM 45.94 -122.59 259 7600 descending 12:05PM 45.90 -122.66 246 6100 descending 12:06PM 45.86 -122.72 228 5000 descending 12:07PM 45.83 -122.77 200 4300 descending 12:08PM 45.79 -122.80 175 3000 descending 12:09PM 45.75 -122.81 164 3000 level 12:10PM 45.70 -122.83 164 2500 descending 12:11PM 45.66 -122.79 163 2500 level 12:12PM 45.64 -122.74 149 1900 descending 12:13PM 45.62 -122.69 149 1100 descending 12:14PM 45.60 -122.64 149 800 descending 12:15PM 45.58 -122.59 149 12:16PM 45.56 -122.55 149 12:17PM 45.54 -122.50 149 another example 737 KSEA to KPDX is here http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA9003/history/20090208/0356Z/KSEA/KPDX/tracklog looks like this path might be the more standard KSEA to KPDX flight path nowadays? more KSEA to KPDX examples here: http://flightaware.com/live/findflight_route.rvt?origin=ksea&destination=kpdx

Yes, in the same way that those of us who consider Bonfire or, especially, Speakers Corner a "waste of bandwidth" on a skydiving site can ignore them. I dont think this any anything to do with bandwidth. Here's a possible real issue, that I think may be part of the issue. It's about how the site is organized. The front page for the forums, have categories, and then 'one' thread is highlighted...i.e. the last thread that got a post. This is like the front page of a newspaper. People go to threads that are "published" on the front page. Because the "DB Cooper" thread is in the skydiving trivia category, it takes away traffic from the other threads in that category. This is just a reality of how people interact with web pages and information. If I was more interested in the other threads, and getting posts/interaction on them, I'd be pissed because the placement of the DB Cooper thread works against my goals. That simple. I agree with those who suggested a while back that the DB Cooper thread should have it's own category. Hell, put it in a 'Non Jumpers Special" category. Or "Whuffo" category. Whatever. Another category on the front page of the forums won't kill anyone, and it would help create more goodness in other Trivia threads. The ranking by "last post" causes things to happen. If it wasn't important, why not list all the threads in Trivia just randomly? Or highlight no thread on the front page of the Forums? Hell, a reasonable Forum would create "quality" metrics for each poster (some sites do this. rank community members based on votes from others, based on their posts). Threads could be highlighted according to "quality" Etc. There's lots of ways to use technology to achieve what I perceive are the real goals. Technology is flexible. The problem is, no one wants to pay for it!

not quite sure if it's a waste of bandwidth. Efficiency is overrated as a metric, and only measurable in hindsight anyhow. Obviously the most efficient resolution to the thread would be a single post, with Dan Cooper's real name in it. Everything beyond that can be considered inefficient. Has anyone looked at the recent study that analyzed how much bandwidth Google consumes on the web every month. Hell, a post here with just text, is so insignificant in comparison. So "bandwidth" is not the right metric. It would be much better if people say what they actually think, rather than trying to use metrics that don't apply. Clarity should be the goal for all human contact. Hell, even happiness is overrated.

"Why don't you get a picture of that house from the back and front and also while you are at it check the building permits - if it was not rebuilt - it may have been remodeled. " I've already said I'm not sure what building is the house. Why are we all fixated on the house? Why not a cow barn? Or other farm building? Did you not see all the farm buildings? I'm confused about this house thing. I have google earth imagery going back to 1990 (b/w) just not as clear. I already talked about the one new building in the field. Why are we talking about this anyhow? Just to argue? Ok. You're wrong. No you are! No you are more! I know you're wrong cause I can tell when someone is lying! Liar! Wrong! (edit) Moon Landing Hoax background info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Moon_Landing_hoax_accusations Note there is missing data. This aligns with the missing data around Duane Weber. See the wikipedia site for all details of the TRUTH! "Dr. David Williams (NASA archivist at Goddard Space Flight Center) and Apollo 11 flight director Gene Kranz both acknowledged that the Apollo 11 telemetry data tapes are missing." "blueprints for the Apollo Lunar Module, rover, and associated equipment are missing" Note that Stanley Kubrick, who filmed the fake Apollo Landing, also filmed Dr. Strangelove, which used the metaphor of smokejumper bull-riding kickers on nuclear weapons, to pass hidden messages about D.B. Cooper, along with an uncanny prediction of South Africa's use of nukes on Mt. St. Helens.

"I will tell you the house that was there was an older house - the old typical rectangular style. The front of the house face was a road or drive on the North side and not the river as Snowmman has said. (I know what a backdoor looks like.) I am not going to argue this - because if the film company has all of the clips they made they would answer all of the questions. In the actual presentation on TV, they did not show the house." uh-oh. Jo is going to figure out that they brought her to the wrong place back then, as part of the cover-up. I knew we should have hired the guys who faked the Moon landing. You go with the low-bid, and look what you get. Caught! I mean, yes Jo, you're correct. Uh. What gate are you talking about Jo? The one with the Tena Bar sign on the left? Or another gate? I think we all agree that it's downslope to the river. Why is that a big deal in your memory? No one disagrees with that.

nitrochute, I just quoted the article as it was printed. My guess is that no one other than Tosaw said it was a pilot chute. And probably Cossey didn't. I mean if someone really ID'ed it as a pilot chute, wouldn't people have been all over that area? I posted the quote because it was weird how it was mentioned as recently as Apr 2008. I think it's like a lot of stuff in this Cooper thing. Pseudo-facts get baked into the history, and then we forget just what actually happened. Or maybe we never really knew. (edit) the reason it came back to my thoughts was solely because it showed that nylon fabric could exist on the bottom of the Columbia for some amount of time (unknown amount of time in this case, though)

There's been a couple of Cooper-related fiction books over the years that we've not mentioned here. Basically they just make reference to the Cooper saga, and tie it into their mystery-related story line somehow. Just noticed there was another new one on 11/21/08 (there were a couple last year, heh?) http://www.amazon.com/UNDER-SUSPICION-Legend-D-B-Cooper/dp/1440450358/ref=si3_rdr_bb_product UNDER SUSPICION: The Legend of D.B. Cooper (Paperback) by James Olszewski (Author) 394 pages Two men on the same side of the law-with two different objectives. While investigating the same case, the situation turns deadly. Jim Harper has been Sheriff of Lewis County for three decades. But when a drug investigation shatters the harmony of his County, he finds his community questioning his abilities. Alan Bradley is a hard driving Special Agent of the Drug Enforcement Agency. A tip leads Bradley to Lewis County where he suspects a drug dealer is hiding. The Phantom file is a mysterious case on the DEA dockets, and solving it would make Bradley a hero. Problems arise, which lead to mistakes and he finds himself unprepared. In order to preserve his credibility, he spin doctors the situation. He resurrects a ghost from Lewis County's past-D.B. Cooper! The public's reaction to the story of this hijacker couldn't be predicted as everyone is caught up in its wake. They clash but there can only be one winner, and it'll be at the expense of the other. Who will find that truth first?

weird. in April 2008, Cossey repeated the "pilot chute" idea to a reporter here. Did he see it, or was he just repeating what he had heard? The reporter is saying Cossey couldn't remember the date? "Cossey has been through the drill before; this is the third time the FBI has asked him to examine parachutes to see whether they might have been Cooper’s. One chute found long ago — he couldn’t remember when — was just a “pilot chute,” used to pull the main chute out of the pack. The other time, in 1988, it was a parachute found by a Columbia River diver seeking clues to Cooper’s fate. “They keep bringing me garbage,” Cossey said. “Every time they find squat, they bring it out and open their trunk and say, ’Is that it?’ and I say, ’Nope, go away.’ Then a few years later they come back.”" full article at http://www.enewscourier.com/statenews/local_story_093112109.html

Hi, nitrochute. I didn't notice that the caption didn't have the year. It was Dec 18, 1982 (the photo is on the corbis site at http://pro.corbis.com/search/Enlargement.aspx?CID=isg&mediauid={8497AA25-A504-449F-AD0F-AF934C0FF259} at the time, Tosaw mistakenly called it a pilot chute? I think I just read a 1985 account that said Cooper had put the money in a nylon bag around his waist. But I guess we know that's not true. I thought I remember Cossey dismissing it like it was a G.I. Joe parachute or something like that. Maybe I'm misremembering. But it doesn't look like any of that, does it? I guess I'm not really clear on how it was dismissed. but yeah maybe it's a piece of ripstop from a tent or a tent fly or something. (edit) I found an article in 1988 where it was still being referred to as a pilot chute.

I was thinking about the nylon scrap Blake Payne recovered per Tosaw. image is attached. While it's apparently not related, it does provide an example of a scrap of nylon that was sitting on the bottom of the Columbia in the area, for some unknown amount of time. original caption (from corbis) "Portland, Oregon: Blake Payne stands in stern of his charter boat late December 18th, and holds up what he thinks is a piece of "D.B. Cooper's" parachute. Payne has been dragging the bottom of the Columbia River for the past month and a half, looking for evidence that "Cooper," did land in the Columbia after parachuting from hijacked airliner. On the stern is "rake," Payne designed to drag the bottom of the river." It is also possible that Blake Payne may be related to Cooper. Since his father could have been named Max Payne, and that sounds faintly criminal. And, he is wearing a funny looking hat, that could be a modified paratrooper's beret? :) (edit) They apparently didn't find much, which might also confirm that the Columbia river bottom is relatively clean.

It's pretty easy to search for drownings in the Columbia where they don't find the body right away, or unidentified bodies. They seem to now find them within a week, and ID the unidentified bodies pretty quick. Here's a recent one in 1997 where I can't find a report of the body found. Pasco is much farther up the Columbia. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/archives/1997/9706050036.asp There seems to be a stream of suicide jumpers off the I-5 bridge between Portland/Vancouver, over the years. It's a pain checking all of the "not immediately found" stories. but here's some more where bodies are not immediately recovered. Not all Columbia. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/archives/1988/8801260316.asp [url]http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/archives/1997/9701020037.asp http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/archives/1994/9403250029.asp http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008030199_webjump02m.html http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19970608&slug=2543567 Regardless of Jo's prognostications about the triviality of "random drownings" vs "major crimes" (I have no idea what she meant) or her knowledge of the amount of searching done (I have no idea what she meant)... the reality is: we have no data on what percentage of drowning victims in the area we're interested in, are never found. It would be interesting to know. Especially any I-5 suicide jumpers, since it's the right area. I remember one (recent) was found all the way up the river by Longview? There's a "Joe Patterson" back in 1977. Don't know if his body was found. (a photographer took his picture as he jumped, actually). (edit) Maybe the picture of Joe jumping to his death will shock Jo to her senses. Any death is important to someone. This is the I-5 bridge. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=TO4LAAAAIBAJ&sjid=vlkDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4203,18962

worrying about no body found in the Columbia is pointless. It assumes, for instance, that all other drowning victims in the Columbia have been found. They haven't been. I don't have the exact numbers. I posted one account from a private plane crash on the columbia, in the '70s where a body was never found. There's actually quite a lot of drownings in the Columbia, every year? I think more than single digits. I've read a couple of accounts where body wasn't found until 2-3 months later. I've read one account that had a kid reporting a body around the time of the cooper hijack, but when LE checked it out, there was no body there. I can't find that article again, and always wonder if there was the possibility of a body washing back out. Be nice if we had all police reports from that week. Here's one where the body wasn't found for 7 months. http://www.oregon.gov/OSP/NEWSRL/news/07_31_2007_dickinson.shtml from http://www.dhs.state.or.us/dhs/ph/chs/data/newsltr/oht50/drowning.pdf Oregon has the tenth highest drowning rate among all states. More than 200 Oregonians drowned during 1995-1997. In that '95-'98 sample, 37% were drownings in a river. (note this isn't breaking out the Columbia, and also doesn't include WA drownings). Males much more likely than females. (by 4:1?) fairly well distributed across ages 0-85+ but spikes at 1-4 and 15-19. NY has the lowest rate of drowning. 28 visitors to Oregon drowned during the same period (half from WA) Also, we don't know if there have been any "unidentified" bodies over time.

http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/6664/6664.ch04.php good read on river channel behaviors. Has nice pictures (of CA rivers) showing examples. "Once begun, the growth of meander bends is self-driven. As most rafters, canoeists, and kayakers know, as water runs into a tight meander bend it appears to pile up against the cut bank. Termed superelevation, this water creates a hydraulic head that sets up a strong secondary flow cell within the meander bend. Water within the flow cell plunges downward along the outside of the meander bend, crossing along the bottom and then upward into the other bank before flowing back toward the cut bank. The intense secondary flow cell created by superelevation acts to accelerate erosion of the bank and the bed on the outside of the meander. This, in conjunction with the high-velocity gradients that naturally occur on the steep sides of asymmetric channel (fig. 4.1), hastens the lateral growth of the meander bend. " ... "Most of the work that a river does is conducted within its channel. The channel cross section and the plan view pattern of channels reflect the balance of energy expenditures by a river as it handles its load and discharge. The overall shape of channel cross sections is presumed by many geomorphologists to be controlled by the relatively frequent bankfull stage events coupled with the nature of the bank materials. Suspended load-dominated rivers tend to have fine-grained, erosionally resistant banks, which lead to the formation of steep-walled, narrow channels that are more efficient at moving material in suspension. Bedload-dominated rivers have bank materials that are primarily made up of coarse-grained, less cohesive sediment. Channels established in these materials tend to be wider and shallower" ... "Point bars develop on the inside portion of meander bends where helical flow allows accumulation of sediments. "

I saw the apparently discolored water too. However, one thing to watch out for: I think there are merges of satellite data with different amounts of sunlight. Note how the sand on the west shore, is much darker than the sand on the east shore. I think it's just because of two different satellite photos. On your question of how something beaches. ...I think just a slight variation of how a log or stick beaches. The water pressure changes as it approaches shore. Maybe some sticks out in the air, so there's less water pressure. Then the friction against the bottom (maybe always there if it was moving on the bottom) is stronger than the water forces. I think it doesn't take much to hold it for a little while, then water recedes and then there's not as much flotation, so there's more friction..so it's a cascading process? (edit) Oh remember there's the transverse flows too in the deep channel? I'll find that pick again...i.e. stuff wants to move to shore?

"I have focused on the inside channel at Catapilalr Isle before - now Im focusing on the outside edge as a pressure route to Tina Bar ? " That makes sense. I think I remember seeing nav charts from the '70s, and it was deep right by Tina Bar back then also. Note it's not deep by Caterpillar Island. What's interesting is that they label the main "channel" as on the west side of the river still in this area. They label the east side of the river "anchorage" Note where they label the "Morgan Turn" Maybe that's the key point where the water flow turns. (attached) But the depth of the water, so close to shore, must be an indication of high velocity water? I think that's what's interesting. The water flow just off Tena Bar, is different than the water flow just off Caterpillar Island.

It is kind of unbelievable that Jo thinks her foggy memory is something people should just believe. I mean my guess at the house might be wrong. There are a lot of buildings there. But there's no way we're wrong on the location. There is a building up right near the main road, but I don't think that's the "home". It doesn't appear there is a separate address for home vs the Fazio sand operation. Both use 12112 NW Lower River Rd. Vancouver, WA. Just reviewing everything: first: what I'm calling a cow feeding area in that field: Okay looking at the '70 and '74 Ckret photos, the apparent cow feeding area in the field right next to the money find location, isn't there yet. In the '79 photo, it is there. But the '90 GE image is more clear, and doesn't have it..maybe it was temporary. By 2002 the images are a lot better, and it's obviously a cow feeding station. In fact looking at it again, it almost looks like both fields used for cows near the Columbia, have runoff areas to collect water/waste before it can hit the Columbia? 2) The new building that's just east of this field. It wasn't there in '71. The 2000 GE image has it. That new building is the reference point for the money find location. It appeared sometime between 1990 and 2000. It wasn't in the 1990 pic or Ckret's pics. 3) What building is the Fazio home? There's some buildings up farther N by the cow field past the N sand operation. But they're metal roofed, and I don't see any cars there. Don't think that's the home. Unless maybe the actual home is farther up the road and on the other side of the road. There's a house up there. 4) Correlating everything: We were initially saying the money was found a little more South on the beach, closer to where the channel comes out around caterpillar island. I revised it up N a bit, just past the sand operation, based on Ckret's photos that had circles in what appeared to be the right place (all 3 photos had circles in close to the same area). Ckret never ID'ed the circles, I think just cause he didn't know. But they were very likely the precise money find location. I had zoomed in and compared all 3 to the current GE and created the montage. Georger posted that montage again just recently. The metal roofed houses are East of that. The one metal roofed building in the rectangular field is used as a reference. (what I called the "new" building that appeared between 1990 and 2000.) My ID of the location of the gate and the bench, from the feet on the ground picture of the Tena Bar sign and bench, I think is accurate. I'm not sure what else I could do. When you punch "12112 NW Lower River Rd., Vancouver, WA" into google, it gives a location centered in a field just E of the Sand operation driveway. I think that fuzziness is just because it's such a rural location. not as precise address ->lat./long as google typically does. Okay I'll compare some online geocoders for 12112 NW Lower River Rd, Vancouver, WA using this site/url http://stevemorse.org/jcal/latlon.php?cookie=&hidden=&doextra=&time=1233900191647&addr2latlon=1&address=12112+NW+Lower+River+Rd&city=vancouver&state=wa&zip=&country=US&latlon2addr=0&latitude=&longitude= Google: 45.71353 -122.752697 terraserver: 45.71478000 -122.75654300 The terraserver lat/long is just about dead on, for the driveway off the main road. I attached a snap showing that location. The google lat/long for that address is off E a bit in the field, as I say.

Sluggo highlighted this a while back from the waymarking site. georger's questions recently about debris ON Tena Bar just reminded me of it. Someone supposedly walked on Tena Bar, and took this photo http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=34aa42a3-7aa7-4874-8d5c-81786362f858 I just looked at it again, and there's some big driftwood on it. This is the sign and gate photo. I think with the recent GE images, I might be able to identify the location of this sign and gate http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=f0a705e8-d63a-4600-a4e6-9ae7febe4b12 I think the gate is the center here in Google Maps i.e. 45.716817,-122.75964 http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=45.716817,-122.75964&sll=45.716817,-122.759648&sspn=0.000601,0.000841&gl=us&ie=UTF8&ll=45.716817,-122.75964&spn=0.000601,0.000841&t=h&z=20&iwloc=addr In fact, I think the bench you can see in the distance in the waymarking Tena Bar sign photo, is visible here in Google maps (I've got a label near it) http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=45.717104,-122.75969&sll=45.717104,-122.75969&sspn=0.000574,0.000841&gl=us&ie=UTF8&ll=45.717104,-122.75969&spn=0.000574,0.000841&t=h&z=20

the money bag may have travelled like neither logs nor sand. I've read about how bottles collect in eddies. That must mean they travel along the river bottom. The money bag may have travelled along the relatively clean river bottom. If so, it's likely it would move in the high velocity channel..(i.e. if it's moving, then it is more likely to be in high velocity) So that might help point to "why Tena Bar"...you needed a high velocity channel that whacks up against a beach...for the money bag to travel along the bottom. (like bottles, say)