snowmman

" you toss in Snow's proliferations .... " Yes the problem with society is the graffiti artist. Everything was great otherwise.

snipped and attached from the first url I posted. Tip of the Day: If you print this pic out and need to stalk Galen, don't throw it in the bushes near his office. If found, the police will be able to trace it back to this thread. (edit) I just noticed Galen is sitting in front of his folder of pics. Everyone has to have their collection of "stuff" I guess. It's like baseball cards! I was using Picasa to look at all the pics I have on my computer, and was thinking of making a youtube vid with Picasa that flashes thru each pic for just 1/2 sec each. it would still be pretty long. Music selection would be key. (edit) Look right here for your pic Jo

Ah! the age-old existential question. We have no choice in our birth, and suicide seems like such a chickenshit reaction to life. So the only thing to do: go fullbore with what you got, till you're dead!

I was just searching back thru Ckret posts, because I forgot how we got on SAGE Ckret said on the original DZ prediction "The attached was created in January 1972 using USAF radar data from McCord, jump time of 8:11 PM based on crew analysis and tests conducted, Wind info from 10,000 MSL to ground, human body trajectories provided by Boeing, time correlation from USAF radar and NWA communication tapes with flight 305 and plane speed and altitude from the flight recorder. " So I guess that blows my theory. The USAF radar data was from McChord, not Auburn. (don't even know if Auburn was there in 1971) I wonder why they couldn't track it with FAA radar? there wasn't any in 1971 to cover that distance? (now there is)

Orange1 said: Hey, the "back at work" comment reminds me of something. We just congratulated georger on being a new grandpa, but didn't we miss out on a proper congratulations to orange1? If so, orange1 showed remarkable restraint...let's see looking back in this thread, yes there's just one single post, here: orange1 said: "(sorry I am a bit slow - must also claim non compis mentis a bit here - severe lack of sleep due to newborn babySmile)" So: I'm assuming we missed out on the appropriate congratulations at the time. If so, Congratulations! (but maybe not so much about having to go back to work now!) (edit) And: I'm not belittling the logic argument, your first sentence was just one that caught my memory. I agree with you on brutal exchanges. People get upset when they see them in text I think. I think text reminds people of books, and they think it means something more than the spoken word. In a forum, it doesn't!

Locations of U.S. operational weather and air traffic control radars. (attached) Looks like ARSR-1/2 in Seattle. Is that an ASR-9 and NEXRAD in Portland? The vintage of ARSR-1/2 in Seattle might mean it was there by 1971? (it's really the Auburn ZSE site) from http://www.ll.mit.edu/mission/aviation/faawxsystems/mpar.html Here's a map that shows circles (effective range?) for all of the current WSR-88D radar installations (notice Seattle and Portland facilities overlap their coverage of the 305 flight path). WSR-88D stuff probably didn't exist? back then though? haven't looked. these are weather radar (Weather Surveillance Radar 88 Doppler)

Yeah, it was interesting that the tubes are identified by name in that bid. But no one else can bid, cause there's only one test set, and the company owns the test set, and it can't be recreated? Sounds fishy. Classic bid that's really a no-bid. What's really funny is I first found that bid on a site that translated it to Arabic. (looks like they're just generically translating all bids) Can you imagine a Middle Eastern firm bidding on maintaining the ARSR-1/2? http://pk.dgmarket.com/eproc/np-notice.do?noticeId=2283186 I was actually thinking of you 377, on the bid. I figured if anyone else might have a test set in the closet, it would be you...but then I saw that there was only one in existence. Have to steal the plans and build one. "Bet those SAGE scope integrated ashtrays got a workout that night." heh! okay let's look at the next version: ARSR-3 http://www.forecastinternational.com/Archive/es/es0059.doc It had a "solid-state" modulator but still used tubes, like you say. see they say "Surveillance radar used jointly by the FAA for en route air traffic control and by the USAF for air defense" ARSR-3 36 made, for 3 customers. $1.6Million each. Delivered '78 to '80. 5000 kW peak. 3500 avg. 310 to 365 pulses per second. can deal with two square meter target to 100,000 ft. The ARSR-4 exteneded the range and is the current "modern" version. from http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=12438&page=9 ARSR No. Radars: 101 Deployment: Nationwide Band: L range: 370 km (ARSR-1,2,3); 460 km (ARSR-4) antenna size: 9 m × 7 m 4 MW (ARSR-1,2); 5 MW (ARSR-3); 60 kW* (ARSR-4) That link also lists all of the 510 radars that comprise the infrastructure today: 156 WSR-88D (national grid) 45 TDWR (at 45 largest airports) 233 ASR ( (233 commercial airports) 101 ARSR So I'm not sure what was at the Seattle ARSR here's current info and a google eyeball of the site: The only ARTCC would have been in Seattle? Haven't found yet what gear it has, either now or in 1971. But I would think it was operational in 1971. Did this center provide the radar for the flight path?? I would think it had the distance capability???? and if it was joint USAF, that might explain the notion that it came from USAF??? Seattle Air Route Traffic Control Center (ZSE), 3101 Auburn Way South, Auburn, Washington 98092 here's the facility: http://www.satellite-sightseer.com/id/13142 Currently: the airspace worked by the Seattle Center includes the states of Washington, Oregon, northern California, and parts of Idaho and Montana. Speaking of high tech: At ZSE (the id for the Auburn site) they use pens that don't work on the shiny flight strip printer paper http://www.faafollies.com/?p=915 I believe that's the only reason WOW signals are not reported from ZSE: they gave them pens that can't write on the paper. Part of the coverup? I'm waiting for the incident that gets root caused to this pen issue.

I've been wondering why the FAA had to use USAF radar for the Cooper flight path. Been trying to dig up what ARSR facilities existed then. Apparently these facilities were joint use FAA/USAF. I wonder if we've been all wrong about SAGE, and whether the flight path data came from joint use FAA/USAF ARSR? It's interesting to know, because of accuracy questions, etc. The ARSR-2 Air Route Surveillance Radar active then used L-band 1280 to 1350 Mhz. Full operation in 2/1/1970 http://nas-architecture.faa.gov/nas/mechanism/mech_data.cfm?mid=241 I suppose some ARSR-1 might have still been in use too? Now: was Duane involved, and why are we talking about the WOW signal again? Interestingly, ARSR-4, the more modern stuff, uses 1215-1400Mhz. The WOW signal was detected around 1420.4556 +/- 0.005 MHz , only 10khz wide. Did Duane somehow modify FAA radar to send a signal on August 15, 1977? If so, why? Was this evidence of his knowledge of FAA radar in 1971? http://www.bigear.org/wow20th.htm What's weird is a bunch of the ARSR-2 systems are still operational? Here's a contract they're bidding out to overhaul the old tubes. http://www.govcb.com/Repair-Overhaul-Amplitron-ADP12029517630001460.htm "The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has a requirement for the overhaul/repair of an estimated annual quantity of 192 each Amplitron Tubes, NSN 5960-00-023-9482, Litton Systems Inc., now L-3 Communication's P/N L4953R, Raytheon Technical Services Co., P/N QK653 and Electronics Industries Assoc., P/N RK7577. Raytheon, who subsequently sold their tube division to Litton, originally manufactured the tubes. Northrop Grumman, Williamsport PA, acquired the Electron Devices Division of Litton Systems Inc. L-3 Communications, Electron Devices Division, officially changed their name from Litton Systems Inc., Electron Devices Division, a subsidiary of Northrop Grumman in December 2002. The proposed contractor is L-3 Communications, Williamsport, PA. The proposed contract provides for major overhaul or modification services in support of Air Route Surveillance Radar Models 1 and 2 (ARSR 1/2) systems. The ARSR 1/2 are integral part of the Air Traffic control system. Raytheon originally built the ARSR 1 and 2 systems in 1957 specifically for the FAA. In 1994 Raytheon sold their tube division to Litton. This acquisition included the proprietary rights for repair of original tubes applicable to the ARSR 1 and 2 systems, as well as the test set for testing rebuild/overhaul of amplitron tubes. The test set is a one of a kind unit, which was built specifically for testing the rebuild/overhaul of amplitron tubes in order to maintain FAA's stringent safety and reliability standards. The amplitron electronic characteristics cannot be measured and aligned without the use of this test set. The repair processes are proprietary to Northrop Grumman however, the FAA has revised FAA Logistics Center Specification, FAA-D-1275, Tube, Electron, Amplitron, which coupled with a company's knowledge and experience should enable other vendors to be qualified to rebuild/overhaul these tubes. However, a vendor must have access to a test set, which will be required in order to accomplish system testing. The FAA does not have a test set to provide to a contractor as Government Furnished Property."

This is not a prospectus for the CooperPonzi fund. Here's the plan. -Fine tune my Cooper bill counterfeits to include decomposition -Swap the counterfeits with Tom K's real Cooper bills. The FBI is given back the counterfeits -Start something like a gold mining exploration fund. Except it's for recovering Cooper Bills -Every year announce that we've found another Cooper Bill and sell it on Ebay. It will be real and pass inspection, since we swiped it from the FBI -We encourage people to invest so we can expand our Bill Finding explorations. -The investment side of the deal will be a Ponzi scheme. We'll distribute 10-15% per year. After a couple years, we'll just take off with whatever we've got.

who cares? you sound like you have a problem with women, georger. Hey, smack me around for a bit. It'll feel better. I'm a better opponent anyhow. (edit) P.S. While I understand that it's cool to have new people in the forum and we should bend over backwards to be nice and encourage it, my current point of view, based on what's been said about Thomas, is that he's just another lunatic. I can't understand why Georger would get all excited about Thomas, yet whack Jo. Goes to Georger's credibility, as the tv detective shows would say.

Hi Georger. Do you have a reference for the FBI saying BTG = DZ? even a ckret post here would do. I'm not sure what information you're referring to. What kind of searching was done? I was reading about the DC-9 (Flight 956) that crashed 30 mi SE of Portland, in 1966, and how difficult it was for them to find/extract. Made me think about how it could be difficult to find a Cooper body, even if it wasn't around Ariel.

Another sensible project involving a portable nuclear reactor (the first? 1960). It's amazing what got done in the past. We should just start doing crazy shit again. Let's just hand out wizzy gear and let people go nuts and see what they can do. Duane may have met Gossett at Camp Century, although I can't find any of the records. from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Century Project Iceworm (Camp Century) Project Iceworm was the code name for a US Army proposal during the Cold War (study started in 1958) to build a major network of mobile nuclear missile launch sites under the ice shield of Greenland. To test the feasibility of construction techniques a project site called "Camp Century" was started, located at elevation of 2000 m in North-West part of Greenland, 150 miles from the US Thule Air Base. The prospect was to build a system of tunnels with total length of 4000 km and deploy around 600 nuclear missiles there, which would be able to reach USSR in case of a nuclear war. Missile locations were supposed to be periodically changed. A total of 21 tunnels with a total length of 3000 m were built, containing also a hospital, shop, theater and a church. Total number of inhabitants was around 200 persons. From 1960 until 1963 the electricity supply was provided by means of world's first mobile/portable nuclear reactor "Alco PM-2A" (edit) according to this book, which uses it for lessons about cold weather construction, the nuke plant cost $6.2 Million and $3 Million for everything else http://books.google.com/books?id=J-alZvaR0QQC&pg=PA531&lpg=PA531&dq=%22camp+century%22+project+iceworm&source=web&ots=Wve2adwz28&sig=Ut7kM29h6JP03lyYCIqezg0RJFk&hl=en&ei=RZeeSYHaM4mMsAOs3PHDCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA532,M1

The Standard Examiner in Utah, had an article interviewing Galen Cook Nov 2, 2008 Good article cause it has more pictures of Gossett than I've seen before. http://apa.olivesoftware.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=U1NFLzIwMDgvMTEvMDIjQXIwMDEwNw==&Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom Click on the "continuation" link at the top to get the rest of the article. Here's something interesting on the Page 4A part. The writer says: "The FBI contends Cooper landed near Battle Ground, Wash. about seven miles north of the Columbia River, but didn't survive the jump because the paracute he used couldn't be steered and his clothing and footwear weren't suitable for a rough landing" That's interesting because I've never heard someone say the FBI thought Battle Ground was the DZ. There's a picture of Galen Cook there too. An earlier article in the same paper in July 2008 shows the son. http://activepaper.olivesoftware.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=U1NFLzIwMDgvMDcvMjcjQXIwMDEwMg==&Mode=Gif&Locale=english-skin-custom I think they're all a bunch of hucksters, they just don't know it. Kind of like the finance ndustry. Most believe they're not hucksters. :) If we knew were Gossetts body was, we might be able to prove with he was affected by radiation poisoning during the years he worked secretly at a portable nuclear plant (PM-4). This has been covered up. Although, I, snowmman, have uncovered the details using such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms.

Well you know about the CIA sponsored attempt to plant a nuke-powered receiver on top of Nanda Devi (himalaya) right? It was supposed to be able to help detect nuclear testing in China. They had problems (weather). Stashed the nuke. When they came back the next year to install it, it was gone. Assumption it got knocked down into the glaciers. It's been written about here and there over the years. The information has been murky. But it's true. "The CIA’s Himalayan operation comprised eight separate expeditions and must have cost tens of millions of dollars in helicopter support, supplies and logistics alone. The devices ran up a bill of millions. The climbers were paid $1,000 per month ($6,200 in modern USD). It was a 1960s US mountaineering dream team and included Tom Frost, who to this day holds true to his oath of silence, Lute Jerstad, who suffered a heart attack and died in 1998 while trekking in Nepal, Jim McCarthy, who has retired to Jackson, Wyoming, and Dr. Robert Schaller, who is semi-retired. Barry Bishop, the first American to climb Everest, inspired these spy expeditions." a good summary here: http://www.indianexpress.com/oldstory.php?storyid=22804 But always remember, there are smart intelligent people involved in all these nuke programs. By fiat. There are some photos that show an unnamed person that looks a lot like Duane, on Nanda Devi, holding the device in 1965. A little known fact I found from that site in india...there were other nuke listening devices... "By 1969, the Indians and the Americans had installed two nuclear devices trained at China, one at Leh, and the other in the Arunachal mountains. In 1970 and 1971, the Leh sensors picked up signals of Chinese medium-range ballistic missile tests, but the real triumph came in 1973, when the sensor plucked data of the Dong Feng 5 tests from the sky. Ironically, the feat coincided with vast improvements in satellite technology. The mountaintop devices had gone the way of the dinosaur." You see, the people who worry about nuke proliferation the most, are those who proliferate!

I know people want to deny the nuclear connections I keep identifying but here it is: trivia from http://www.radomes.org/museum/TriviaQuiz1.html Name the only nuclear-powered radar site. The only nuclear-powered radar site was Sundance AFS, WY (TM-201 / Z-201), home to the 731st Radar Squadron, from 1962 to 1968. Details on the reactor are here: http://www.radomes.org/museum/documents/SundanceAFSWYarticle2000.html Note that's "Wyoming". Smokejumper country. And where Flight 305 landed on it's way to Washington that day. "The nuclear reactor was named PM-1, which stands for "Portable, Medium-power, First one the Air Force owned." It was prefabricated in units by the Martin-Marietta Corp. for an estimated cost of $3.5 million and flown to Ellsworth Air Force Base. From there, the units were trucked to the site on Warren Peak and assembled. The reactor was fueled with about 20 pounds of uranium-235, which would power the plant for two years. This 20 pounds of uranium had energy equivalent to 4.5 million barrels of oil and provided 1,000 kilowatts of electricity and 7 million BTU's of heat per hour. The core of the reactor was about the size of a 55-gallon drum. Inside were 741 stainless steel tubes, each containing about 1.5 ounces of uranium. The core was inside an open tank filled with water for shielding. When operating, neutrons escaping from the core bombarded the shielding water, creating a purple glow."

I was just clicking around their site, and realized I hadn't explored all their data. they have a "radar museum" section that has SAGE documents and training info? also detailed docs on each SAGE site, including McChord http://www.radomes.org/museum/ ID: DC-12 / CC-3 Unit: 25 AD McChord AFB SAGE, WA Early Equipment: AN/FSQ-7, AN/FSQ-8 Final Equipment: AN/FSQ-7 Operational date: circa 1958 Inactive date: DC: 04 Aug 83 Notes: 25th AD, Seattle Air-Defense Sector (SeADS). AN/FSQ-8 at CC-3 ceased operations on 1 April 1966. A SAGE direction center here controlled the Seattle Defense Sector during the 1960s. A Region Headquarters and a SAGE control center were also located here. The CC deactivated 30 June 1966. The DC deactivated 04 August 1983. Current Use: - Former CC blockhouse contains the Western Air-Defense Sector (WADS) JSS Sector Operations Control Center (SOCC) Here are some direct links but you can get here from the radar museum page (the radar museum page is frame based) Here's a personnel roster with email addresses, and years served. http://www.radomes.org/cgi-bin/museum/acwshowroster.cgi?site=McChord+AFB+SAGE,+WA Pictures here: http://www.radomes.org/museum/thumbs.php?pic=McChordAFBSAGEWA&site=McChord+AFB+SAGE,+WA some nice photos I've not seen before of the AN/FSQ-7 "Whirlwind II" Intercept Computer on this page (scroll) http://www.radomes.org/museum/equip/fsq-7.html There's a picture of a MTU (Mag Tape Unit) (cute pics. evidently personal color photos)

Back when we were looking for SAGE info, I joined this group called "Radomes" which is a web-based Air Defense Radar Veteran's Association. I get a quarterly newsletter. there's one or two articles about guys who were at Mt. Hebo. I wonder if I sent the editor a little blurb looking for anyone working at a USAF radar site during the 305 hijack, whether an actual operator from that night might remember something. they're at http://www.radomes.org They have a forum also. I have to find my username/password though.

I thought we discussed the SAGE issues a bunch in the past. I just did a quick scan of posts, but didn't we say that stuff was stored in memory, and they had to selectively store to tape if they wanted to save stuff. I thought the thinking was they probably dumped to tape because it was an incident, and there's a good chance that the flight path came from post incident review of the tape. This was something I posted based on email from a more current SAGE operator. The main point being that post-intercept analysis was something that was standard. I think also that the radar from McChord would have been near it's limits...i.e. that the transponder signal would have been key for getting 305. Now other radar sites were tied into the system, but it's unclear which. I guess McChord would have gotten feeds from all of them, but they wouldn't have been feeds of extra data?? In any case, the only radar that would make sense for maybe painting Cooper would have been PDX atc radar right? the email from a more recent SAGE guy: Edit: Speculating about stored SAGE data and who might have analyzed it for the '72 map: Source 1: I don't know how long the old magnetic tapes would've recorded but yes, the tapes were stored for later review and analysis. The four air defense sectors (later three, then two) retained this ability through the transition to the Joint Surveillance System (JSS) during the late 1970s/early 1980s and still have the capability with the new BCS-F set-up, although I'm pretty certain nowadays all recording is done digitally vice on magnetic tape. One of the primary missions of the 84th Radar Evaluation Squadron (RADES) is post-mission analysis of intercepts, disappearing aircraft, inflight disasters (the STS Columbia's breakup over Texas several years ago), etc.

here's my vote for georger's avatar. when in doubt, always go with the sock monkey.

georger said: "But its my understanding there is sufficient data between the Transcript and the FP map to zero in on a narrow drop zone IF Rataczak's testimony is accurate ... " that might be true. Can Jerry Thomas do it better than anything we've discussed? Jerry must have put something together that we missed, or have new information. And re The March Report. Maybe the FBI is releasing info thru indirect channels. I don't know who would be authoring The March Report, but I look forward to it.

A better question: Since this feeds directly into the CIA/FBI coverup of Duane's involvement, how come Jo has never pursued this? It would seem to be stronger evidence of her claims of a coverup. Jo? why not? When Duane jumped out, they had him on tape. The tapes are gone. Maybe Jo is part of the coverup too?

That would be great if someone figured out the drop zone. There must be new information, because based on the current available information it's not possible to figure out the drop zone. Maybe Jerry found something.

He can't be in Texas. He's in Washington. I've dug up some traces of Cooper moving money to and from Africa, as recently as 2004. I don't know if Orange1 is involved, but the coincidences are pretty strong. attached scans Maybe my information about the gold bar air drop was a little off, and it's happening more recently..say 2004? I could have been slightly wrong. Has anyone looked for Cooper in Lesotho?

"They turned up the length and breadth of Tina Bar and forgot to dig Jo's yard up" well we know they didn't dig much at Tena Bar. But you're right that there could easily be a box buried in the yard of the old place in Florida. Probably has more money in it, maybe from other crimes too. Maybe some weapons. I wonder if Jo can remember any nights where Duane might have been outside, and didn't say what he was doing when he came back inside. Were there any shovels in the house? If so, what were they used for?

Good ones Georger! Hey times are tough, but something popped up on craigslist yesterday. Submitted a resume. Hope people don't mind I had to namedrop this forum a bit. Sounds promising. http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/tlg/1027546814.html LOOKING FOR D.B. COOPER (Portland) Reply to: ocomedy@aol.com Date: 2009-02-09, 10:32AM PST Wanted: actor to play the role of the legendary skyjacker D.B. Cooper for appearances during the 2009 Portland Rose Festival season. You'll do several sightings with little to no public interaction throughout Portland and the metropolitan area (dates to be determined later). You will also appear in the Keybank Grand Floral Parade on June 6th. The character of D.B. Cooper is 5'10" to 6', 170 to 180 pounds, in his 40's with brown eyes and short black hair. There is pay for the role. Please send photo and resume to Angel Ocasio at the AngelO@rosefestival.org to schedule interview. (edit) Also found another place where the world is reacting to our discussions. We were discussing peanut allergies. Orange1 mentioned tree nut allergies. It isn't often that you'll then find something happening specifically mentioning Northwest airlines and tree nuts. http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/02/16/airline.peanuts/index.html