snowmman

oh that's funny. I forgot about the pivot/hinge being metal. And why would she specify two 5-lb charges? It's like she didn't read up on the case. There were plenty of articles where she could have read up on the red sticks. I found another place where they said she used felt pens. Evidently they read one of the descriptions of the printed felt pen note from Cooper, and connected Barb to that, because she liked to use felt pens. They put a lot of credence on her just talking about the Cooper hijack like we have..i.e. she pointed out some implausibilities in how the FBI framed what happened. Look how silly this paragraph is: page 40 "Barb was a chain smoker when we met her. She said at the time of the jump she smoked Raleigh cigarettes. She also said that she still used only Bic felt pens because they were inexpensive and reliable. She had written the hijack note on the plane with her pen" That single sentence about her claiming to have smoked Raleigh in the past, is the only Raleigh sentence in the book. And the felt pen thing is nuts. It means nothing. Note to false confessors: if you publish an ebook as pdf, it makes it easily searchable, and more easily embarassing if it's false!

I notice the FBI, in their hiring blitz, seemed to have picked up some pointers from this site when you guys were talking about DZO benefits. At their job site http://www.fbijobs.gov/11.asp They have a special link "Female Special Agents" at the bottom. There they say: "We have found that investigative teams composed of a blend of female and male Special Agents are much more effective at bringing complex investigations to a speedy and successful resolution." Hmm..smooth talker. Now that's a pickup line! "We need some help solving this DB Cooper case..."

Ooh I bet one of them is a bird book, with cryptic notes jotted down in the margin that all Mean Something. I'm seriously trying to think it thru. Now if it was buried with the money which decomposed because of water infiltration, then the book likely decomposed also. Maybe not the cover if it was plastic, but definitely the pages (the paper would be less sturdy than currency) If it was a bird book with margins with notes, those notes would no longer be visible because of the from-the-edge-in decomposition. So no Orange1, it most definitely can not be a bird book with notes in the margin. (edit) Unless you're proposing the notes were in the margin, but are no longer visible due to decomposition? which is why we don't know what the notes said?

It was insane. Now you've soldered a bit. Can you imagine anyone, who thought enough about the problem, to solder the joint, and decide "staple remover" when it came time to pick a switch. Talk about an unreliable switch! It might accidently close in your pocket. And the contacts are unreliable! A staple remover has jaws that go past each other with incidental sliding contact. And you can't solder to the plated steel on a staple remover!!! A switch is so inexpensive at the hardware store. Even those, would more likely be simple screw down contacts. It's like she was lying in their face, and they just kept buying the story. Maybe she was trying to keep going bigger and bigger all the time with her stories, to see just when people would say "no way". Odd. definitely. But there are lots of odd people like that. We only hear about the ones who additionally say "I'm Cooper" and are connected to someone who then thinks it's worth their time to run a PR campaign for them. (edit) 377: Hey no fair demonstrating you know how to have a life! :)

Barb was a serious person and not Cooper. Im a little disappointed the Formans are not as serious as Barb! Barn had serious issues - what are the Forman's excuse? Okay, it sounds like you may have read the book too, because you're responding the same way I did. Either the Formans are gullible, or they're trying to pull a fast one: i.e. they know the story is implausible, but they want to tell it with a straight face, and think "well it could be true" and think they're doing Barb a favor, and making some money at the same time. Reading it made me feel negative towards the Formans, sorry for Barb, and pissed off that there's yet another thing that feeds the maw of Cooper speculation, and then we have journalist coming in and saying "why the dis" and "what do you expect from a good journalist". Fact checking is a good start. The bomb description is wrong and bad. I will give Barb credit for one thing. She knew explosives. She knew she'd want 6v like I've said before. Way to go Barb. How many of Barb's stories were true? How many BS? Who knows. Doesn't matter. She's dead. Would have been better to help sort things out with her while she was alive. Actually makes me wonder why Barb and the Formans weren't closer. There's this sense of closeness that's attempting to be described in the book. But if they were really close, I can't imagine the level of BS that existed. (you can tell when they describe their interactions). Who knows. Human interactions can be indecipherable.

Hi Georger, I'll be serious for a second. I was wondering if you can't see the sarcasm in my Barb posts. I'm assuming it's obvious. Based on the long history of posts, I actually can't tell what your reaction is. Yes I'm clueless. You do see the sarcasm, right? (edit) The quotes are exactly correct. I was highlighting how the author puts in little touches to try to tug at the reader in certain ways. The book consists of an endless stream of those tugs, which is supposed to translate to truth. As opposite to a small, simple set of facts. It's characteristic of the false confessor books. (edit) In rereading your post, I guess you do. I've gotten used to assuming that there's some insult to some poster or the other, and looks like I misread your message. You're worse than me!

Duane is God. I was looking for more evidence, since Jo said there was a book. I found the book, I believe. It's a children's book. I know Georger will find this useful. I've attached the sketch of Jo and Duane in the book. It's called "Vanished" by Judith Herbst, and covers a number of famous disappearances. "Dan's Daring Disappearance" starts here: http://books.google.com/books?id=No6A1mRJv8IC&pg=PT24 The Jo and Duane story starts here: http://books.google.com/books?id=No6A1mRJv8IC&pg=PT28 "Jo" he whispered. "Listen. I'm Dan Cooper." Jo blinked. "What?" she said. "What do you mean?" She had never heard the name and had no idea what her husband was talking about. Her face was blank. Weber searched his wife's eyes and then, frustrated, cried out, "Oh, let it die with me!" But it didn't. ...(various more details) The whole thing seemed impossible. Whom had she married? D.B. Cooper, Duane Weber, or John Collins? One was dishonorably discharged from the service, one had been in prison, and one was an airline hijacker. And one or all of these men had died in a Florida hospital, known to the people of Pace as a mild-mannered antiques dealer. If Jo's husband had, indeed, been D.B. Cooper, he had pulled of quite a disappearance. On that night in 1971, he had leaped into infamy and vanished without a trace. He had scared everyone but injured no one. He had gotten away with the money but had spent almost none of it. It was death that finally found him, and Cooper had no choice but to confess. Death knew his real name.

Hi nitrochute. (I didn't even catch that. Good catch) I tried to point out to people that the Barb thing is nonsense. I have the ebook. But since the journalist is here, and apparently in close contact with the people promoting this book, and it's a new book and they apparently are trying to boost sales, I didn't want to post word for word too much of what's in it. Suffice it to say, if you guys read it, you'd say "whuffo". I posted two verbatim quotes above that give you a feel for the tone of the book. The bomb description is clearly wrong, and should be enough for people to not worry about Barb's confession.

So if you didn't see Duane reading these books, then perhaps he read them on the plane, and already knew the contents. Did he write in these books? It's interesting they never got bent. I would have expected he would have buried them with the money, rather than take them with him on the escape. Maybe they were buried with the money for a while? But if he buried them with the money, then how did he retrieve them, since he forgot where most of the money was buried. Maybe he buried them with some of the money, the part he retrieved and threw away. But why not throw away the books? Very confusing. Maybe the confusion is an indication that they may have a lot of encoded information by their very presence.

Hi Jo, You said Cooper had both of these books on the plane? So the water damage is apparently from the jump or landing? Any theories on how the books were carried on the jump? Can they be stuffed in a raincoat? I thought you only saw Duane reading one book while you knew him (the Norjak book). Did he never read these books? Also, what were you trying to use the books for? You must have looked inside the books for a copyright date to get a hint of when they were printed. How much before 1971? Or are they not printed material? Maybe a journal of some kind. Still, some dates might be inside. Which?

page 39-40 "The dynamite had been real. According to Barb, "Nothing I've ever done was phony.". The zippered brown briefcase contained two five pound charges and a six volt battery. The detonator was in her pocket. The switch was a staple remover with wires soldered to it. She drew us a picture of how the dynamite was rigged" (ed. note. I am very impressed by both the need to specify that the wires were soldered, and a staple remover was used. If she was still a man, there would have been a risk of penile injury with the staple remover, but she took care of that issue? I, myself, have run into people who solder, when faced with a switch issue, reaching over the table to get a staple remover.)

I'll post some quotes from the Barb book. I'm protected by copyright law, in the context of a book review. Anyone who has the book can confirm the accuracy of my quotes. Page 8 "As our friendship grew we became aware that besides her abilities as a pilot and mechanic, Barb seemed to have knowledge on a wide variety of subjects. No matter what topic arose she seemed to have something interesting to add to the conversation. Still, she was not a braggart and would often start her sentences with "Well, I don't know for sure, but .." or "I think I heard somewhere that ..." Sometimes after a stimulating discussion on a complex subject such as the making of the atomic bomb, the theories of electricity or the workings of a computer I would get out the encyclopedia to see if what she said was accurate. She always proved to be absolutely correct. I came to the conclusion that she must do a lot of reading, but she denied that to be true. (ed. note. It is very unlikely that a research librarian would do a lot of reading. It is interesting she had no negative personality quirks, like being a braggart)

Orange1: we've all talked a lot about rubber bands. The real new angle though is not the rubber bands. It appears to me there's a new willingness to reexamine the "clay layer" data and if there could be errors there. I found an article way back that suggested the money could have been there from day 1. (edit) I even think it was quoting from Himmelsbach, way back when. So having Tom reiterate that theory, implicitly requires reexamination of the "clay layer" data/theory. Ckret presented that as ironclad. Tom is at least resurrecting the idea that it might not be. Now: We don't have all the data. There are color pictures in the Vault, that I snapped from the videos. That's another bit of new data..that there is actually more that we've not seen. So Tom has data we don't. And Georger is able to process data in ways we can't. But we can watch things unfold. And I can make avatars. (edit) Note that along with my snaps from the most recent news vid, I made a post of what appeared to me to be two nice new photos of the bundles found in 1980. They were color photos. We've only seen color photos from snaps of 1980 vids, or recent photos of the Ingram bills. I'm assuming Tom is scanning all those cool photos there, in addition to the color photos of the dig after the money find. (edit) attaching said pics again, in case people missed. There are no good closeups of the clay layer photos. We've never seen the clay layer report either.

(see post above for how I think)

when I read "active investigation", I immediately started up the wood chipper, since Larry had told us there was no FBI investigation going on, before. Which is best for removing fingerprints: muriatic acid and bleach, or brake cleaner? http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_030609_lifestyle_D.B._Cooper_science.d9828e4.html SEATTLE -- Huddled around rarely seen evidence spread out across the briefing room of the Seattle F.B.I. office, researchers say a new theory is emerging in the D.B. Cooper case. "Well in D.B. Cooper, there was a fairly recent surprise," said Chicago metallurgist Alan Stone. Stone is referring to bits of metal found on some of the physical evidence from the 1971 hijacking, the only unsolved crime of its kind in U.S. history. Stone is one of several researchers taking a new look at this old case, and debunking some old myths surrounding the case. Stone can’t get too specific, because he is part of an active investigation. But he will say, "It’s a surprise to find (the metal) where it is.

I was playing with using ABBY Finereader 8.0, an OCR (optical character recognition) package for converting images of text to text you can search etc. Started on the old transcripts but stopped. Obviously Google has very good text recognition now with their newspaper stuff. If Google had to solve this problem, first thing you would do is scan all the paperwork, Then create a searchable database. i.e. think about creating the process for a 10 year project. Individuals don't matter as much as the process. Since the documents age, scanning them is more important than ever. One terabyte of disk storage only costs maybe $200 nowadays. If Google can scan all the books they did, then ALL of the FBI transcripts can be scanned and OCR'ed and made searchable. But then again, Larry doesn't need us :)

Tom Said: "Even more if you know inside info that affects things politically like the fact H was not the lead agent on the job but got all the publicity." That's been obvious for a while. I'm still surprised that guys like Sluggo still want to prop up people's reputations etc. That's what creates politics, alll this "oh you have to listen to me, because I did some crap 20 years ago or whatever" For something hard, you have to throw all that out. Everything is just data. Errors always come from wrong thinking by humans. So inevitably, someone is going to be pissed off because they're wrong. Rather than always worrying about whether someone got their ass kissed enough every day, it's a lot easier to just assume everyone is doing their best, and everyone, from top to bottom, can be very wrong. When someone's wrong, just say "oh, well" and move on. People have too much of ideas of self-worth tied up in being right. Hell, just be right once in a while, and you're doing good enough. Always TRY to be right.

thanks for the update Tom. So how do we get Larry back in, if Larry would be the best added value? What does he want? Does he want anything from us? I always figured it was because there was no longer anything we could contribute. i.e. he found out how to get it in other ways, like thru you. You've definitely added value. (edit) Like people stay in bad marriages as long as they're getting something. Money. Sex etc. They leave when they can get it elsewhere, or don't need it any more. I figured Larry wasn't getting anything he needed, anymore. Fair Enough. Humans should act that way. It's rational.

georger opined: "If there is anything about women that's true it is they always want to be right. Being right is basic survival for women" snowmman says: "If there's anything about men that's true, it is they have a strong need to believe they can pigeonhole women" Let the games begin! Who ever knew that a penis, breasts, some hormones and other assorted parts, could divide humans so cleanly. Better than skin color! yahoo!

"Why did Barb Dayton confess, and for that matter Duane Weber, Wm Gossett and who knows how many others?" Hm. You may not have talked to enough crazy people in your life, if you're asking that question. Maybe start slow. Ask 377 why he jumps out of airplanes. He'll feed you a lot of nonsense about flying and air and blah blah blah and it will all sound rational and well thought out. But he's just nuts. You're asking me "What is rational and why do people do crazy things that make no sense?" Good question. Sometimes the answer is as simple as "Why not?" Crazy people scare society. Everyone wants an ordered world, where they don't have to worry about getting a club on the head while they're sleeping from some nutbag. That's not the real world. (edit) p.s. there are plenty of confessors out there. The real question is not why people claim bullshit. But why do people listen to certain ones? That's the point I was making on the Barb Dayton story. It was obvious why the authors got hooked in. You could also analyze why Jo got hooked in. Or why Himmelsbach got hooked in on Duane. Always look for the hook to the song. People like hooks. Hey do you want in on the second offering of the CooperPonzi Fund? It's an affinity-based Ponzi scheme. Guaranteed returns. It's based on a gold bullion air drop scheme with South Africa. They run gold and uranium out of the same mines there, so it's a sure thing.

Fair enough question Bruce. If you noticed, when you first arrived, there was this flurry of "oh let's straighten our backs and slick back our hair and act nice because here's a member of the 4th estate that might be able to add some data" But it turned out that's not what (I'm guessing) you're about. I remember when Geoff Gray sent me a PM talking about his book and waxing poetic about how the comic book angle was just too good to leave alone. You reminded me of that. Liking the story more than solving a puzzle. Barb Dayton isn't part of solving the puzzle. That's what I think and that's what I said. Simple. Yes, there are plenty of good stories to write. Hell I write them up here all the time. Now step back for a moment and put yourself in my shoes. I've been posting her since last April. There's a lot of water under the bridge. A lot of emotion, a lot of passion, a lot of smart thinking. By a lot of smart, impassioned people who randomly came together, to think about this thing. Maybe for some social fun. Maybe to make fun of whuffos. Along the way, I've come to realize how polluted the Cooper has been by mythmakers. People who love the story. Now the story is great and all that, and story writers should go have fun. I've published stuff on all the song writers that have used Cooper has a meme. Did you know Kid Rock mentioned Cooper in the lyrics to Bawitdaba? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6nvrYopHV8 "For the timebombs ticking and the heads they hang All the gangs getting money and the heads that bang bang Wild mustangs, the porno flicks All my homies in the county in cell block six The grits when there aint enough eggs to cook And for db cooper and money he took You can look for answers but that aint fun Now get in the pit and try to love someone" I'm assuming when you post to the DBC thread, you have Bawitdaba cranked at full volume, all the time. You don't? why not? Here's the thing. In terms of goal-oriented "find Cooper", that book is a negative, not a positive. That simple. You can argue differently; go for it. I am nothing. I'm not some guy that's supposed to pat you on the back and prop you up. There's no Cooper Social Club where we all say it's all good as long as Cooper is mentioned. There's a perfect example of someone gone whacked (at least a couple actually) here on this thread, because so many people have supported so much whacked out thinking on this thing. It's like creating dementia. So: if you think you deserve something from me for some reason: not! Maybe someone else will give you what you want though. But: I'm always interested in stories and thinking. I gave you my feedback. You didn't like it. I've noticed a lot of "people deserve to be treated certain ways because of titles/backgrounds etc". Baloney. A web forum is all about ideas. If you've got strong ones, let them rip! Come on, you're a writer. Is this the first time an editor has said your story is crap? How do you respond? (edit) Oh ps. Besides a lot of general stuff. Barb's bomb description is wrong. That simple. cuts her out of the picture in one paragraph.

"If they didn't have the tie or a picture of it how did the Agent show it to her? I have question this over and over for yrs." Hi Jo. I just cruised thru that stuff in the book because it was obvious McCoy and Cooper weren't related. I'm not interested in looking around for the answer to that question. If you're interested in the McCoy case, and what was reported in the Real McCoy book, you should order a copy online. It's good reading, if you're interested in all aspects of the Cooper investigation. Like all Cooper related books, there are some errors. I've highlighted a few. Too bad we don't have books on all the jump-related skyjackings. The first person accounts might add some insight into Cooper's state of mind (or not).

marketwatch.com is a financial news site that I have posted to before. see here: http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENIE269&=&q=marketwatch+snowmman&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f Just one hour ago, the D.B. Cooper Citizen's Breakfast Club story hit www.marketwatch.com. the story is here: http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/sleuths-seek-db-cooper-clues/story.aspx?guid={401CED82-A58B-472C-9991-CAF69EFDE158}&dist=msr_1 I'm expecting a good pop in shares of CooperPonzi, especially after last quarter's announcement of the improved nuclear business outlook. While CooperPonzi cannot take all the credit for the improved economic outlook, we are proud of what little contribution we can make, as long as the tax rate is reasonable. And you guys think I just make crap up. No apologies necessary. CooperPonzi is closed to new investors, but a new fund may be opened shortly due to demand. This is not a prospectus for CooperPonzi, and all financial advice is wrong.

"It was not just a regular book - it had a plastic spiral binding and the cover was blue" I have noted before that I listen to stories from lots of people, and you're one of them Jo. So fire away. Minimally I'm listening. Most spiral bindings are wire. You're talking about another kind of binding. I'm guessing it's what called a "comb" binding. They are sized for particular max thicknesses. How thick of a "comb" binding, if that's what it was? see here: http://www.gotoforms.com/fel52326_fellowes_letter_size_plastic_14161_prd1.htm http://www.restockit.com/Plastic-Binding-14Diameter-25-Sht-Cap-25BX-White-(GBC4090007).html?source=froogle&Bvar5=100F1&Bvar6=100F1&Bvar7=100F1 a true plastic coil is here, but in 1971, I think it would be less likely? http://www.spiralbinding.com/selectProduct.cfm?subCategoryCode=PLASTIC%20COIL%20SUPPLIES Was the blue cover plastic or hardboard of some sort? In the movie "The Shining", from which I have used pictures of the bar scene with Lenny and crew, the exterior shots in the movie were filmed at Timberline Lodge, which is on Mt. Hood. (edit) Jo: if I am one of the liars, users, or people out for themselves, you can say it directly, and I won't be offended. It will be good feedback for me.

"Hey Snow, you don't have to bash the FBI 24/7/365. NOBODY will ever accuse you of kissing FBI butt so cut em a little slack. I know, you did throw some props to Special Agent C. in Utah. " I did say that Larry looked good in that recent picture, also. I'm a little worried Jerry will think I have a wandering eye :) (edit) Alan Stone is the real deal. He's done some weird science with meteorites and old bronze arrowheads here: http://pubs.acs.org/cen/metallography/gallery3.html The director of Aston Metallurgical Services in Wheeling, Ill., ALAN STONE, makes his living by helping clients solve their metal-related problems. One such problem is "metal dusting," a situation in industrial settings in which the surfaces of furnace tubes, processing tubes, and other metal components turn to dust, sometimes with catastrophic results. Images 1 and 2 in this gallery depict some microscale signs of metal dusting in a furnace tube. Image 3 shows a weld joining two pieces of copper tubing. The individual grains of the metal on each side of the weld are visible as irregular shapes with thin boundaries. Image 4 shows the mix of phases that form when ductile iron is hardened through a hot-flame process. Images 5 and 6 reveal the dendritic, or branched, grains of an ancient bronze arrowhead that Stone bought but couldn't help cutting up to examine metallographically. Dendritic grains form in some cast metals as they solidify from the melted state. The final three images, 7–9, are from metal that made its way from outer space to Earth in three different meteorites and finally into Stone's hands.