danielcroft

Ok, I had some fairly silly stuff happen to me leading up to my A license. I thought it might be fun to share and see what other people had happen to them. Mostly all my fault, actually, all my fault but it only happened once. 1. Landing out on my recurrency (jump 9). I tracked too long away from the DZ, mainly due to mental overload. Pull priorities! 2. Velcro on alti (school) coming loose in FF with my coach's alti being faulty on the same jump (jump 10). I could still see my altitude so it wasn't a loss of awareness. We did pull high on that one because I wasn't comfortable. Better gear check perhaps? 3. Cutaway from self induced line twists (jump 12). Totally my fault, I learned the stupid way to be slower with inputs. 4. Laterals coming loose in free fall while practicing back loops. Clearly not done up right but freaky when your rig starts making you turn. Gear check!!! What about everyone else?

I've got a bit over an hour of tunnel time. I don't know if the more experienced people will agree with my statement but I think the tunnel feels quite different to free fall. I'm sure it'll work really well for you to learn to arch there (get video!) but the air feels very different to me. Good luck, let us know how you go.

We had 20 reported fatalities last year. We already have 19 this year, actually more, that doesn't include the most recent. These include Canada. http://www.dropzone.com/fatalities/2008/North_America/index.shtml By category in order of frequency 2008: Landing Landed in electrical wires Landing Hard landing while making a low turn Landing Hard Landing while making a low turn Landing Tandem - Low turn Landing Tandem - Low Turn Landing Canopy stalled Malfunction RDS entangled in lines Malfunction Cutaway after main malfunction Malfunction Spinning main Malfunction Spinning malfunction - no cutaway Other Suicide - Jumped without Parachute Other Medical issue Other Struck head on tail of airplane Unknown Entanglement with deploying reserve Unknown Unknown - Military HALO training Collision Hard landing due to canopy collision Reserve Problems Unstable reserve deployment No Pull No Pull Hard opening 2007: Other Low reserve opening after canopy collision Other CRW wrap Other Medical condition Other Medical condition after injury Other Heart Attack Malfunction Low cutaway Malfunction Released toggle Malfunction Broken lines on main Malfunction Line twists at low altitude Landing Hard landing while making a low turn Landing Hard landing while making a low turn Landing Hard landing while making a low turn Landing Wake turbulence Collision Canopy collision at 150 feet Collision Canopy collision at 150 feet Collision Canopy collision at 500 feet Collision Canopy collision at 500 feet Unknown Low Cutaway No Pull No pull on wingsuit jump Reserve Problems Main/reserve entanglement

People make their own choices in life. They assume the level of risk that they're personally comfortable with. In the minds of us noobs it's much easier to see things more simply I think - it's very straight forward. We can commit to doing things a certain way because we don't know a better way or even that there is another way. I think there's a lot of gray that most noobs don't know about where more experienced skydivers are aware of these things and make more informed choices. None of the safety devices can be depended on 100%. AADs, RSLs, Skyhook, Audible, Altimeter, Main, Reserve, etc so coming to depend completely on those things may be misplaced. Having been riding motorcycles for several years, I feel that the choices are similar. A lot of people only wear a helmet. I wear full leather, race boots, full face, back protectors, armor, race boots, full gauntlet gloves, etc whenever I ride. Will it necessarily save me? Nope. But I'm mitigating the risks as best I can. I think some people aren't aware of the risk, others don't really care. Some think it won't happen to them and others quit the sport after they realize it can. I happen to agree with you but, honestly, this is a sport (similar to riding) in which you can do everything right, have all the gear and still die. How people choose to deal with that reality is up to them. Edit: This seems kind of relevant: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=663

I asked a similar question in the downsizing history thread but got no answer. I don't think people generally downsize because they've maxed out their old one. It's more about ego than necessity IMO (warning: opinion based on no experience). In a month or two I might think about downsizing but that depends on my proficiency. It also depends on what my experienced friends think of my landings & canopy control. I've already discussed it with a few of them and they think I'd be ok but I don't think I'm ready yet. My flare isn't consistent and in no wind I tend to have issues flaring a few feet too high. I'm ok at PLFing (the other day I had a friend in front of me on the ground who heard me say "um... PLF" after I flared too high, it was a good PLF). I guess what I'm saying is that you should wait & see. Going to the 170 doesn't give you the opportunity to evaluate your skills. A student canopy flies differently to a regular canopy too. You may also try asking around the DZ to see if anyone you know has a 190 you could borrow for a while. I'm lucky enough to have a very generous friend lending me the Spectre I'm flying & another friend is lending me the container. I bought the Vigil in it and will probably be buying my own 2nd hand rig in the next couple of months from another person I know. For the record, I open higher than most people (4500ft) and I take the time to work on drills because it's really fun.

Once on Saturday & twice on Sunday. Weather was crappy, but it cleared up enough for me to jump which was nice.

Hadn't even ever considered the option of messing with my lines that would be beyond stupid. Thank you for the clarification, fortunately in this case it wasn't required.

From one noob to another, there's a lot you can do on any canopy. Check out the downsizing checklist that Billvon wrote: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=47 Have a think about the different types of turns & techniques that you can perform under canopy and like someone suggested go do a canopy control course (I did Germain's). I personally don't think you'd be bored with a 190. I thought I might be (I'm about 185 exit weight so .97 ish) but I'm really not. It's a gradual process for me to find how the canopy works and is quite fun.

Thanks for the description Bertt. I'll definitely check my canopy & lines next time I get a chance - should be Saturday. OP. Sounds like you're soldiering on which is great but it shouldn't be this way. If you're not capable of fully flaring your canopy then please (as someone else suggested) learn to PLF *really* well. That means not going to your knees but up the side of your body - ask your instructor if you're not sure. I'd suggest putting the rig on and going to find your S&TA and ask about how it fits. As you've probably gathered, you could be putting yourself in danger jumping such an ill-fitting rig. Sometimes it takes looking at things from the outside to actually see what's going on. I know when I help my friends riding (I've been riding for several years and help out my friends with technique), they feel (for example) that they're leaning with the bike in corners but they're really not. You may consider getting someone to video your landings to see what is actually going on. I personally find it hard to believe that any instructor or DZ would allow a student to use equipment as you've described so there may be something that they're missing. Who does your gear check?

Not that I have any basis to discuss except my opinion but I know of several people who don't want to deal with the student part. I don't think it's really that bad a thing when you're at a busy DZ with loads of tandems. I think this discussion has come up before and I'm extremely ill qualified to continue it. Suffice it to say that I think my friends do what they think is appropriate for the students. I'll defer to others on the facts however.

Could that mean her not getting to "3" (whatever the hell that means) is a good thing? Or perhaps she's stalling the canopy on landing and hence the ouchy? I honestly have no idea how that would work with a canopy. That is, how far down you can pull the toggles, do they stop? Will the stall mean that they stop? I don't know, just trying to understand how such a poorly fitting rig would affect control.

I have a noob question. Would the OP being that low in her harness mean that her pulling the toggles all the way down would be further than if she were actually in a rig that fit her? I guess I'm confused because I would have thought that she'd be much closer to stall if the three rings are above her head than if they were at her shoulders when doing a full flare. Maybe I'm just not picturing it right...

Mine were until I was given some excellent advice from a friend who was going through the AFFI at the time. I pretty much did the same thing - worked towards my check dive. In my opinion (and fairly limited experience), a lot of the other stuff is quite hard to do when you're alone. Coach dives are good for practicing levels and other relative work, or the tunnel. When you're by yourself you don't have a frame of reference so you could be getting it wrong and not know it.

Clearly I can't speak for everyone but the TIs that I know will treat it like a ride unless you say you're interested in getting your license at which point it's no longer a ride.

I actually did tandem progression. I felt like it was a less dramatic entry into the sport. AFF & S/L both require you to land your own canopy on your first jump. Personally, I felt like having someone experienced helping with the really dangerous bits was a good way for me to learn. YMMV. Good luck.

RIP Maggot. Only got to meet you a couple of times but you meant a lot to my friends. You will be missed. BSBD

I had a really good PLF the other day too. Flared too high & too fast. Felt like the wind popped me up but it was probably just me sucking.

+1!!!! Step 1: get a rig that fits you (better)! I've had several friends going through student that were of a smaller build & female. They told me they had much better landings on canopies that weren't ridiculously large (like a 110lb student under a 280). Clearly that's something you need to discuss with your instructor as going with a smaller canopy also means you'll be approaching the ground faster. If you have a hanging harness for EP practice, you could use that to see where 3 is and have one of your instructors point it out to you. Please find a rig that actually fits you, it'll not only be safer but you'll probably feel a lot more comfortable too.

I'd be totally up for that. This wasn't an instance where someone was flying the wrong pattern though. Someone got cut off for whatever reason on standard landings. People at our DZ are informed of the left hand pattern (we have that too) and we all agree on direction. Sometimes people are silly when there's really light wind but normally it's pretty good. My point was that the potential is always there, irrespective of landing speed/type.

I get my irrational fear when sitting around at home or work, like truly sick to the stomach fear. I only get that before my first jump of the day when I'm actually at the DZ. Try to work out what's actually triggering the fear, maybe you can learn something.

The real problem is that people aren't paying attention. It's got easy IMO to get into the sky so people respect it less (says the 36 jump wonder!). The HP/standard landing conflict is really just highlighting an existing issue that people just don't know how to fly their canopies. I saw this happen today, two people flying standard pattern and one gets cut off to the point of having to turn the other way. The argument is that if one of these people had been doing a HP landing then there would have been injury or death. I'm not saying that that isn't the case, I'm saying that the problem is always there, just on slower approaches you have more time to deal with the problem. I think that's agreed already but my main point is that there's still a big problem with canopy flight generally it's just that the HP landings make it too obvious for people to ignore. But we seem to just be happy to let it fester in standard landings as long as no one gets hurt.

Yes, you have the right but to do so is completely inconsiderate. I'd bet that you can't stand it when there's someone in the "fast" lane doing the speed limit when there are two other lanes. Technically you're right but practically and socially you're totally wrong. If people actually watch traffic they'll notice that the worst jams are usually caused by slow cars in the fast lane and big trucks. To qualify, the stop start is usually caused by people following too close which is usually exacerbated by slow people in the fast lane because all the impatient people bunch up behind them. The skydiving equivalent is having someone hanging in brakes in the pattern, be that a swoop lane or the standard pattern and the big trucks are the tandems. They just go last. There is a solution to this problem that doesn't involve banning anything. Moving swoopers to a different landing area only hides the real problem anyway.

Hi. Should I add a couple of '0's to my jump numbers? Wait until you get to jump your own rig, it's so much better.

Wait, I know this one! Give me a minute... I'll get it... What is Moby Dick?

The example can be used to support either argument I think. I personally would prefer that people land in the agreed direction. What if the 3rd person down lands the other way, what then? What happens when everyone's set up to land in one direction and then FMD decides they don't feel like landing in the agreed direction and then everyone else has to adjust their pattern on the fly. At which point the separation established gets messed up. I know I'm a noob and I have NFI compared to a lot of other people but I hate the idea of carefully setting up my pattern, watching for canopies making sure I'm appropriately separated only to have someone decide at the last minute that they're going to land in the other direction. At that point I'd need to figure out how the hell I was going to adjust my pattern to match FMD and figure out what all the other canopies were going to do to get there too. I'm all for deciding in advance & sticking to it. Downwind, cross wind or otherwise. Relying on one individual to decide is an inadequate plan IMO.