danielcroft

Thank you both. It may well have been the combination of a lazy throw & a tight closing loop. There's the possibility I have an exceptional arch but I strongly doubt that. My instructor and friends offered me some good advice and I've definitely learned a lot. Probably complacency combined with some (mild) gear issues would be the cause. I kind of think I'm doing a little too much with the 4 way team actually, a bit too much on my mind given my low numbers.

I know I'm going to get kicked in the nuts after posting this but I hope it'll help someone think a bit more about the possibilities. I've been jumping at Spectre 190 up until this weekend when I switched over to a Sabre 2 190. They're both a tight squeeze into the rig I'm using (Infinity) but I've been told by several people that it's fine to jump. My packer (also a certified rigger) tightened up my closing loop because it was pretty loose. Supposedly the pack volume of the Sabre 2 is less than the Spectre (416 - 475) but the shape is what makes the difference apparently. I'm using a packer because I'm in a rookie 4 way team and we'd get 1 jump a weekend if I packed it myself. Anyway, 4th jump of the day with this setup. We break at 5, track & pull at 4 only nothing happens. Pilot chute was definitely cocked, I did it myself. Came out of the BOC no problem but just sits there. It's at this point that my inner idiot takes over and I go blank for a second & then start fumbling for my reserve. I thought to go straight to my reserve because my head was fucked not because I had planned to do that (as opposed to cutting first). I think my thought process was something along the lines of "oh shit, PCIT, now what the fuck do I do, um... um... I don't have time for this fucking around - go to reserve". As I was fumbling around for my reserve I was reaching over with my right hand as well as my left I must have got enough air on the PC to get the pin out. I was under my main at about 2k. Flew my pattern & landed. There's so much wrong with this scenario, chief among these is my inability to act decisively. The first time I've been really freaked out by something I've done (or haven't done as the case may be). I talked to my wife (she's a coach), talked to a couple of friends (D lic or better) and talked to my instructor. Spoke with my packer who loosened the closing loop a little bit. I'm going to adjust my EP practice to include looking over my shoulder (was in FJC) to remind myself to do this. I've jumped the rig 3 times since then. I stopped jumping in the 4 way team for the first jump after & pulled high. Went out the door with my eyes closed (deliberately!) and unstable. I jumped the final round with my team & then one solo on Sunday & started feeling a little better. I'd appreciate any suggestions of course and expect some nice sharp shots to the groin region. It wouldn't be dz.com without them now would it?

I've done Germain's canopy course & notice the difference in the efficiency of the wing. If I'm in traffic or lower than normal or just don't feel like it, I don't open the chest strap. It's an optional feature in my book. Who doesn't want a more powerful flare & better lift? Sorry for the OT. Fair enough. I didn't think of the camera helmet. Not something I'm considering at this point in my very short skydiving career.

I'm no expert of course but when I loosen my chest strap (after steerability check!), I reach down with both hands in the toggles like going into brakes and just mirror my movements on both sides. People have said that's not possible on a highly loaded canopy but I'm only loading at .97 at the moment so works for me. Not sure what your WL is but might be worth a try?

Noob: I don't jump unless the cloud base is above my pull altitude irrespective of how much cloud there is. We aim for gaps too but I don't want (as someone mentioned) to have to track away into a cloud.

For student jumps. Just like losing your instructor on a level is a signal to pull. I had my alti come undone on jump 10 (had a coach with me but her alti had broken on the way up). Fortunately, I could still see the altitude so didn't pull ridiculously high (came undone at ~10k). Ended up tracking & pulling maybe 1k higher because I got nervous. Point being (at least for me) that when I haven't developed the sight picture of what the ground looks like at my pull altitude it's pretty dangerous for me to keep free falling with no altimeter. It's also very dangerous to pull high as you mentioned so as I gain experience I can make that decision to track way off the line & then pull at a higher altitude than normal but as a student I couldn't. That's what I was taught at my FJC. I'd been uncomfortable several times during my student progression, once was the having the alti come undone, once was having my laterals come undone. Both times I pulled high(er) because I was really uncomfortable. As a student & a low timer, I really have to rely on people giving me good separation and being at least a little accommodating of the potential for me to become uncomfortable. This is all within reason of course.

Thanks for making me feel a lot less stupid. On the subject of the post, I've been told that rear risers may be an option as well (if you can get to them). Personally, I'm just going to chop. I've had spinning line twists and have chopped. A reserve pack isn't worth my life by a long, long way.

Noob here. I was taught that if I lose altitude awareness that I should pull - period. Is this not taught elsewhere?

I've been told it's "No shit, there I was...", that's NY for you.

If you displayed the same attitude about riding I'd never ride with you. I've been riding for 4 years and ride pretty quick (can get my knee down when I feel like it even though that's considered by most to be dangerous - I see it as skill that can be used in an emergency) but wouldn't ride with someone that's unsafe or doesn't consider death or injury a problem. Riding taught me about mitigating risk and leaning my limits. Being strong enough to stop when either I don't feel something is safe or being told something is not safe by people who know. Would you want your friends to go out & buy a new liter bike & then try to keep up with you in the twisties? It's a recipe for disaster that's been repeated time and again. Obviously I've never seen you fly and maybe you really are careful, I honestly hope that's the case. But your frenetic and near manic posts really smack of someone that's not thinking clearly about even the things they're typing let alone what they're doing. My own personal experience with skydiving has been (very limited so far!) that I was landing my student canopies well and always had standup landings. From jump 6 (or 7?) I stood up every landing, including an off and landing my reserve after a cutaway. I had decided to downsize to a 170 relatively quickly (it'd put me at a ~1.09 WL) after I got my license. A friend loaned me a container & another friend loaned me a Spectre 190. First landing was good second was crap. Every other landing was basically shitty. Each weekend I went out & didn't land well and in control (not just luck) I put off downsizing. Some people had told me that I shouldn't anyway but some of my more experienced friends said it'd probably be ok. I decided that I wasn't ready. I'm trying out a Sabre 2 190 this weekend but I *know* the minimum that I have to do to be safe on the new canopy. I *know* it takes time to learn *any* new canopy, not just a smaller canopy. I put myself into line twists under the student 200 because I *didn't know* these things (or didn't listen ). Do that under a smaller canopy and you're not giving yourself a chance to fail gracefully and actually learn from your mistakes. So my experience (limited as it may be) agrees with what BillVon was saying, it took some harder landings (obviously not that hard and not in the realms of what he was talking about) for me to realize that I didn't know what I was doing and then learn from them. Since then, I've had some of my best landings ever and I'm learning about my canopy still, it's great fun. When you choose to do very extreme things with limited experience, you're setting yourself up for failure unless you're lucky. Luck plays a part in a lot of things but it doesn't help you learn IMO. I hope you're safe and I hope you don't pose a threat to other people because it'd be really shitty to read another incident thread with more than one name in it.

Beware: long slightly OT, I'm a noob at skydiving but not at motorcycling. In the case of motorcycle helmets, a stiffer shell can actually be worse depending on the accident. A stiffer shell (such as CF) doesn't absorb as much of the impact force as a more flexible shell & may actually break. In breaking it would dissipate some of the energy of the impact but obviously not be that useful if you were still bouncing around. Recent testing by some magazines of various helmets showed that, in accidents considered to be "normal", that some of the $90 helmets actually outperformed the $700 helmets. The idea was that the cheaper helmets were DOT approved but not SNELL (different standard for crash protection/energy transfer), the main difference between the standard being multiple impacts on the exact same point for SNELL meaning that the SNELL helmets had much stiffer shells. What this actually does is transmit *more* energy to your head on the initial impact but will withstand multiple impacts on the same point better. The idea of a "normal" accident is a little odd but basically, the theory is that you lowside your bike and slide down the road. You may bump your head (helmet) on the ground but you're not having multiple extreme impacts on the same point. I'm not saying that these are necessary accurate assumptions but the findings based on those assumptions are not only interesting but relevant in the case of skydiving helmets IMO. In my (very limited) experience, skydiving helmets are either CF with very little padding or Pro-tec style helmets with a plastic shell & lots of padding. There are variations of course but the CF helmets aren't going to offer much in the way of give. The real point is the amount of energy transferred to your head from an impact will probably be less with a Pro-Tec style heavily padded helmet than a very stiff CF helmet with no padding. Testing would need to be done to confirm this but we're not talking about black & white here, there's a continuum of injury that I personally think would be more effectively prevented by Pro-Tec style helmets. I'm no engineer & I'm remembering this from reading these articles a little while ago so I may have some terminology wrong but I think the point is clear. For the record, I have a military Fairwind: http://www.unfeathered.com/mifawli.html *** I'm not an instructor or an experienced skydiver so talk to someone that knows before taking my advice/comments to heart ***

I've been riding a motorcycle a few years now, I think that's where I get the "it's time to sit down" training from. ... I have a PS3 though

I didn't get on a load last weekend because of an incoming front. I'm not good enough to deal with crazy weather. I wasn't there obviously so I don't know and I'm a NOOB but sounds to me like you should have pulled off the load, ridden the plane down given that you were on and your instructor should have had you stay on. Weather is unpredictable though and hindsight is 20/20. With a more highly loaded student canopy you may not have had this issue. Lesson learned and you're safe, that's a very good thing.

Thank you. I don't let go of my toggles until I land but I was just curious.

At your crotch perhaps?

Noob question: What if I was in really deep brakes & dropped them? Maybe out of order?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PctXVPNyWKg Here's another solution, have Ranger or Lan on your jump! Great work.

Cool! Thanks for posting!

Or "Dawn's"

What if leaving 10 mins early got you killed? Heaven forbid of course but I found this very funny. I started packing a little late in my student progression but I was packing my own gear. Just as I got off student status I messed up my thumb in the batting cage and *actually* couldn't pack (yes I could pull, it was only problematic at certain angles). My thumb's pretty much back to normal now though so I've been practicing and will start packing again. This Saturday is out though as I have a 4 way competition but Sunday I'm going to have to start packing again. I can definitely relate to the "don't learn by committee" comment, bad way to learn & may cause arguments. The DVD "Packing made simple" is actually very good too and may make some more sense. There's also a "PD Packing" video (Scott Miller) floating around on the web that might be useful, they do some things that are quite different to what I've seen (yes, very limited experience - 1 DZ) people do. ^^ there it is.

Video? Let's see it!

I pull right at 4.5 on solos (I like to fly my canopy) and 4k on RW team jumps. I would be willing to go down to 3.5 but then I don't get much time to learn my canopy so I wouldn't do that unless there was a specific requirement.

I pull at 4k when I'm jumping with my rookie RW team. We still go out first (if we're the largest belly group). The solo FF going out towards the end may pull at 2k. I thought that's what exit separation was for. edit: corrected pull altitude

A bit too close to R&R for my liking. I've had a chop. Jump 12, self induced line twists. Under reserve by ~1800. More stupid than anything but I've learned that lesson.

Bad dog! Don't skydive from experimental aircraft, NO! I've only managed to sit in the door twice & I really do like it. Having said that, I do wear my helmet so I'm ready to go up until the door closes (usually around 5-6k at my DZ).