danielcroft

mmmmm Ben & Jerry ice cream

I was told that due to my malfunction being somewhat low speed the reserve doesn't inflate very quickly. There was, at least as far as I know, no issues with the rig. By that definition then I'm stable right out the door, I do need to bend my legs a little more at times but otherwise I'm good right away. I certainly don't plan on waiting that long on a hop and pop (haven't done it yet), I don't need to look at my altimeter, I just need to count & throw. Same with EP unless I'm below my hard deck (count & reserve). I think the distinction I was making was that I first check my alti at around that height. Fortunately, I was playing around high enough that I had plenty of time to look at the issue and cut away at approximately my hard deck. I've talked to several other people at the DZ (was there this afternoon) and have received some good advice. I will be going to the practice rig and working on my EPs either tomorrow or Saturday as I think I need to work on them. You guys really ought to try to be a little more respectful of each other, we're all on the same team you know?

Yeah, Jerm says they're all navigators now. So not pilots. :)

Thanks dragon2. I'll have a talk to my instructor/coach about what you've said. This & spotting are a couple of skills that I really need to work on. Thanks again. Yeah, we can see the jump run normally but not always. Depends on the winds.

Thanks Doug. The problem I'm having is that I'm not seeing the jump run line when I'm trying to spot so I don't know where to turn to get off it. That's not good I know but like I said, I'm trying to learn to do that right now. I'm good at picking out my local DZ but for some reason figuring out the land marks to know which way the plane is going is tough for me. I should be tracking off the jump run anyway but both tracking & the canopy ride being off the line depend on me knowing where the line is in the first place. I'm talking to my coaches about it and they keep telling me (basically) that it's just practice. Any tips would be welcome. :) My understanding is that you're looking for some landmarks on the flight line (movie reference!) so that I know which direction to turn. Maybe I could just pick something straight out the door of the plane, I guess that makes sense... hmmm, I must try that next time. :)

Same people, yes. They were free falling in front of me yes. They were higher than I was. I was between them and the DZ. I didn't wait around to see them pull. I just rear risered away before it might become an issue. I know I'm a student and probably don't have the experience to say if it was totally safe but they seemed far enough away that I never felt there was an issue. I thought there may have been a potential issue so I turned before it could become one. If I'd stayed on the same course, done my steerability check & chest strap, etc. I may have ended up in the same air space as them. The fact that they were in front of me tells me that I was flying down the jump run line which I really shouldn't be doing anyway - that's one of the things I'm trying to learn right now. :) Main point is that if I see people freefalling in front of me, I think I'm better off making a small correction prior to any issue arising.

You're absolutely right, this is what I didn't do but will in future. As for the stable altitude comments, what kind of exits are you doing to be stable in 3 seconds and what do you mean stable. Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology but what I mean is that I'm in a normal free fall and off "the hill" totally stable and looking at my alti for the first time at like 12/12.5. I spoke to one of my coaches who said that I'm stable right away. I'm not flipping or twisting or anything silly like that. For the record, I've been doing diving exits and am now pretty good at those & will be moving on to floating exits (which kind of scare me for some stupid reason). I could easily pitch in an emergency situation well before I normally check my alti.

I was confused actually. At the time I didn't think it was a big deal or even realize but I think I was expecting something to happen in terms of a chute appearing. When it didn't, I pulled the reserve. I wasn't thinking RSL at the time I think I was associating the cut away handle with my PC which is bad obviously. The fact that I paused for what ended up being maybe half a second and then went for the reserve shows I was paying attention at least. The other odd thing was that I've been trained in two hands each side EPs but I actually went 1 hand each side, I don't know why but now I think I need to practice the way that's natural to me. My friends on the plane exited after me. I wasn't first out we were last out of the otter. They knew I was pulling at 5k, so were they (she was trying out a Safire 149 IIRC). For the record, just before it spun up I remember seeing the inside (right) of the canopy basically stop. It didn't collapse but it definitely didn't look normal.

That's it, they're navigators. Lol. Thanks Kentucky. You're right, I should pay more attention to that stuff. I've been a little overwhelmed with all the things that you "need" to do. Brian's canopy course was awesome but I'm probably trying to do a little too much given my low jump numbers. I don't feel like the choice to jump the 200 was a bad one in spite of the mal. I just didn't understand the different inputs required. People talk about landing & flare when referring to wing loadings & canopy sizes but I guess I didn't put the information together myself until my friend on the radio said after the mal that smaller canopies require smaller inputs. It was probably said but now that I have a very good example of the results I'm more receptive to the message. ;) That video looks pretty close to what happened but I don't remember the weird flip under that that guy did just before he spun up. I was looking at the canopy when it happened and I felt as though it was pretty stable, spun & then went a bit crazy. I wish I had video. Honestly, who knows, at this point I'm never getting to the bottom of it. The lesson I'm taking away is that I caused line twists. There may have been a gust of wind, the brake lines may have been too short. Point is, what I did caused the problem. I'm going to treat my canopies with more respect & practice the coordinated turns that Brian talks about rather than deep toggle turns. I saved my own life 4 times in 3 jumps, I'm ok with that. :D

Thanks Michael, and everyone else, I appreciate the comments. I've read Brian's book and, as I mentioned, I've done his canopy class. I actually know Brian a bit too (such a good person). I guess my confusion stems from me thinking that I had initiated the turn, everything was good, I didn't do anything else & the canopy spun. I feel like the turn in was not connected to the spin & that I didn't release the toggle. I know you guys weren't there and that memory is not infallible (mine certainly isn't) but that's the root of my confusion. I've definitely taken on board the concept of smoother inputs and that less input is required for smaller canopies. BTW, it was a happy ending all around, the main was found and re-attached to the rig. I think there'll be a rematch at some point. ;) A little more respectful one of course.

I'm going to have to check if it's actually a pilot, I'm just going off memory here. I still don't get how I would have spun it up half way though a turn. My body was already traveling in the direction of the turn and everything felt stable when it spun up. Not saying I didn't cause this, just don't understand the mechanics of a canopy that's seemingly flying happily & then suddenly spinning up.

I weigh about 155 maybe 170/180 with gear on. I've been landing well on larger canopies without help and a couple of friends (who happen to be coaches) who have seen me land said I'd be fine on the 200. The thing I hadn't considered is that I need to fly the canopies differently so in that sense, if that's what caused the problem then yeah, I perhaps shouldn't have been flying the 200. On speaking to my instructor (Hi!) the suggestion wasn't made that I'd downsized to quickly. Maybe that could explain it though. The thing that concerns me is that we're repeatedly told that the student canopies have extra long brake lines so we don't stall them so I don't understand how I could have stalled it. If I turned to quickly, how did I manage a stable turn for a while before it spun up? I'm not saying you'd know (thanks for the reply btw :) ), just confused by the incident.

So, I had my first cutaway at 12 jumps this past weekend. I don't have my log book in front of me right now so I may forget some details but I'd be interested in some advice or theories or whatever. Apologies for the essay. Jumping at the ranch, 12th jump, first jump on a 200 pilot (I think it's a pilot anyway). I've jumped mostly 280s, 260 once & 240 once too. I've stood up my last few landings. My first this year was on the 260, I landed out & stood it up. Then stood up a couple on 280s & then one on the 240. All these were doing my own flare (not listening to the radio). I've got a little over an hour in the tunnel & I've done Brian Germain's canopy course, although, I didn't get to jump thanks to the weather. I finally get the chance (and comfort) to jump the 200 and I was excited to fly a more responsive canopy. Paid for the solo & got manifested. Jumped on the otter after chatting to a couple of really nice people in the loading area. They were with me on the plane going out after me. Nice enough to help me with the spot too (thanks guys!). Out at ~13.5 stable at a bit over 12. Tried some loops (back is ugly, front is clean), barrel roll, 360s. Basically working up to my A check dive. I'm also trying cupping to work on levels, bit unstable but ok. Very happy with skydive as I'm flying now as opposed to just falling. :D Wave at 5 & pull (very slow reach, hold pull position for a short time to be stable), under canopy by 4k. Square, stable, slider is down, I see my friends from the plane free falling in front of me so I rear riser to the right. Unstow, & check steer-ability I'm good, I loosen my chest strap. Radio tells me to make a left 90 for ID, then a right 90 then a left 180. By then the radio sees me and I'm good to play. I initiate a deep right hand toggle turn, I'm in the turn and feel like I've made at least 90 degrees. I'm looking at the canopy and I see it kind of stop on the right and then it spins into 5 to 10 twists (to the right). I'm spinning & feel like I'm getting faster. I'm getting whipped out to the side a little. I look at the lines and decide I'm really not going to be able to deal with it so I chop. I wait what seems like seconds without anything seeming to happen (I checked that my RSL was attached before I put the rig on) and then pull the reserve (radio guy is a friend of mine, says it was very fast). SSSS reserve is good, I'm pissed off. Look over my shoulder to see the main floating away behind me (probably staying still). I was definitely above 1500 when I was under the reserve, radio guy thought it was probably 1800/1900. I didn't even look at my alti until after I was under the reserve. Fly my pattern (with a little help) & then stand up the landing. My friends from the plane said they looked over at me & saw everything good, looked back and I was spinning with my legs getting whipped out to the side. They didn't see what happened and I was too high for people on the ground to figure it out too. As I was flying to my pattern, I noticed that the cutaway handle was wrapped around my chest strap. As I was folding up the canopy on the ground I discovered that the reserve handle hadn't come all the way out & I still had that too. Not through skill or presence of mind, just dumb luck. ;) Honestly didn't care about any of it except getting my reserve out. Some things people have suggested: Too deep on toggles -> stall. Gust of wind -> collapse Initiate or end turn too quickly causing the twist. I honestly don't recall letting up on the toggle but I may have. I was in the turn going fine when the canopy spun up. I've had a couple of people talk to me about being more smooth with inputs which I will take on board. I jumped a 220 twice afterwards and stood up both of those landings (own flare although my pattern sucked on the second). I was a fair bit more tentative under canopy for obvious reasons. I'm most pissed off because I don't really know why it happened. Student canopies are set up with long brake lines so that they're not likely to stall so I'm confused.

As a student I would prefer to be told the truth. Tom does a great job (yet again) of answering in a clear and appropriate way. If you're doing a dangerous sport without understanding the risks, you're not doing yourself any favors and (as someone else said) shouldn't be in the air. Although it's kind of weird (maybe?), I've read every incident report and try to understand what happens and what can be done. At the same time, like motorcycling (I do that too!), sometimes shit does happen. You can do everything right and still end up dead. I vote for honesty but not dwelling, let them know you can discuss after if they're interested.

http://www.pierltd.com/NEW/ssg/ssgmalfunctions/malfunctions/downplane1.jpg http://www.pierltd.com/NEW/product_descriptions/miracle_mike.htm Downplane

Not disagreeing with the general commentary, just pointing out that I wasn't there for a carnival ride. I was there to challenge my fear of falling. That's part of the reason I came back. :) I never really had any desire to skydive, it was my wife who wanted to try it. My DZ really is a cool place (except the turbulence can wreak havoc on innocent unsuspecting students who don't get to jump very much but at least we don't get hurt either!) but they're also making a good chunk of change from tandems. I really don't see anything wrong with that. It's been mentioned several times but I agree that people should be given the choice and I was.

My wife and I did our first tandem back in '05. Our instructors asked us if we wanted to pull/learn/etc. I said yes, my wife said no. She started skydiving the following year (it was November in New York so bloody cold) I didn't start till last year. The reason we went skydiving was because my wife always wanted to try it (apparently, it was news to me!). I feel like the use of tandem progression is vastly underestimated by lots of people. I personally felt that I learned a lot through my IAF program that I would have been expected to do by myself in the AFF program. Specifically, landing a canopy on your first skydive is left up to the student in AFF. Most people are injured (except last year) under a canopy. Having a very experienced person to show and then assist was an excellent opportunity to develop an understanding of the dynamics and learn. Being a student, I get to sit around *a lot* waiting for the weather to clear and can get what I think is a good impression of the different people that come through our DZ for tandem jumps. In my experience, most people come for a thrill ride. They come because they wanted to try it once. Yeah, maybe if you trained some of these people as though they were wanting a license they'd be back but I know that I was asked before the jump if I was interested in that or not and said yes. I was given the opportunity to pull but failed (thick gloves thanks to the cold) but I did get to learn some turns in FF and "helped" (I'm sure I did nothing) with flaring. Some people seem to see this as an either or scenario when it's actually many shades of gray. Having been part of and watched the tandem program at our DZ, not only would I say I was given every opportunity to learn but plenty of people choose not to be challenged and may object if that was forced on them IMO.

I have an irrational fear of falling but skydiving doesn't give me that. For your first jump it's all a bit overwhelming but as mentioned, gets better with practice. I used to get really, really, ridiculously (zoolander) nervous before getting in the door but that would subside once I got there & was gone after exit. Now I'm just nervous but it's been a bit better this season. To me, free fall feels like a really long time. It's only 60 seconds (or there abouts) but it feels like minutes to me. On your first jump you may feel your stomach drop with the acceleration but that passes pretty quickly, i.e. you probably won't get it again. You certainly don't feel like you're falling at all because there's no perspective. That's why I think the height doesn't bother me, you really don't have a sense of how high 13500ft is. It's beyond normal comprehension so I just kind of accept that I'm high and move on. Opening your canopy will give you a bit of a stomach feeling too but it really shouldn't be too bad and probably will only happen the first time. You'll also probably be overloaded with information so don't think of your first jump as representative of them all, your second will be closer but each jump from the second should be a good step along the way to a lot of pleasure and a great deal of healthy respect. As far as the actual feeling of free fall, the closest most people get is (as someone mentioned) sticking their hand out the car. I ride a motorcycle and that's more similar but it really is a unique feeling that I think is very personal and one of the reasons skydiving gets in people's blood. There's an intense feeling of freedom and self dependence.

Thanks, not sure which bit though. The weather was what stopped me jumping this time, I don't trust it enough to believe that I'll get to go up in three weeks. What's his course like? I was thinking of sending my wife. She has more jumps than me though.

I always say I'm "nearly a skydiver", not until I have my A. :)

Did mine this past weekend at the Ranch with Brian Germain, great guy, great teacher. Learned a lot, unfortunately the weather wasn't good so I didn't get to try any of it out. I was walking out to the loading zone and there was a big gust of wind across the DZ. I turned around and started walking back. lol 10 jumps and I want more than 11. ;)

So is Brian's canopy course, not only is Brian a good guy, he's a very good teacher. I'm a student still but got a lot out of his class.

I am currently going through the IAF (Tandem) progression. Given that, with the exception of 2007, the last several years have had the majority of deaths caused under a fully functioning canopy on landing, having someone there to look after it was a great opportunity to learn about landings in a safer manner. I still find it concerning that my DZ barely mentions the canopy flows in the SIM. It's up to me to practice them (yes, before decision altitude!) by myself. I'm glad I wasn't expected to land a canopy on my first ever skydive.

I'm no TM or TI but I was hoping someone would indulge my curiosity and explain what a side spin is? I don't want to know how to do it! :)

I bought the DVD on the advice of one of my instructors. It's a good DVD and makes things pretty clear. I haven't watched any others so I can't compare. Definitely worth the money though. I'm a newb too so keep that in mind. ; )