brettpobastad

Wise One! I like that. But I think they should be all capital letters. Like this...WISE ONE. Yea. You're right about that 'bottom of the packing tray' deal, Ed. I sure as hell can't figger out a way to get 'em into the freebag either. So until someone does, try lying them side by side instead of one on top of the other. See if you can go down a link size. Maybe a set of soft covers for the links. Make sure the reserve is the right size for the container. But I'm sure you knew alla that. If all else fails, maybe it's time to switch container brands? Or you could put some of them newfangled soft links on it because PD told you it was the only way to go. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Hmmm? They're much stronger...says who? Stronger than what? Metal? No. I've heard that 'stronger' argument before and I ain't buyin' it. Now it's fair to say that I have never seen any figures comparing the strength of French Links versus Soft Links but I'm betting you haven't either. Somebody at the DZ just told you that, right? But let's say there are figures that show that soft links are stronger. How did they do the tests? How long and at which points did they pull from? For how many years? And on and on. And I'd be willing to bet that over the course of, let's just pick a number, say 500 jumps....that there's a better chance that four french links would retain their shape and strength characteristics versus four soft links. And there's the 'nylon rubbing against nylon' factor as well. And what do you mean by saying that they're more likely to break on opening? Is that good? Are you wanting to build in a 'breaking point' on your system? And unless that Stileto of your's is down in the double digit range and you are closing in on the top ten at next years SWOOP NATIONALS, bulk and weight ain't an issue. And here's the real point: They didn't fill a need or solve a problem! When did Rapide Links become weak, bulky, heavy and hard to use? There is one thing for sure that soft links have over metal links: They are cheaper to manufacture and that lowers the overhead on a canopy. I wonder if that's why they are so popular now? "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

You people don't actually BELIEVE that soft links are an improvment over Rapide links, do you? "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Try this...get your rigger to pack it a little neater. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Howsabout we just tighten up that 'ol French link a bit! "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

"Its a business after all - the numbers won't lie." Your right, of course. But numbers alone ain't gonna keep that thing around. There's a reason why they sell you the value meal cheaper than buying everything individually. And those numbers don't add up either. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

That sounds like a hellava lotta BOOTSY to me! "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

DD, RR and FS That's a lotta technical info! If I read and understand it all correctly, and i think I do, then it all supports my position on using our Cessna 207 Turbine correctly. And what I mean by 'correctly' is a compromise between using it efficiently and keeping ALL jumpers happy and coming back for more. Thank you for your input. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Rex As a followup to the issues that we have been discussing on this thread, I have been timing a few loads in the turbine, here and there. TIMED LOAD ONE: 18-1/2 minutes to 12,500 with a full load (seven jumpers plus pilot). One pass. TIMED LOAD TWO: 18 minutes to 12,000 with a full load. One pass. Warmer day. TIMED LOAD THREE: 17 minutes to 11,500. Six jumpers. One pass. DZO flying. I timed these loads from 'wheels up' to the call for the door. Do they seem to support my position? Brett "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Hey Sid! Speakin'a Racers, we got the rig in last week that I ordered from you and Jump Shack. It fit's GREAT and my customer (Chad Robins) couldn't be happier. Thanks again and I can't wait for you to get back to the 'Shack Brett "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Thanks for the info, J-man! Now if I could just get the DZO at Toledo to buy into it. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Hey Nick! Brett Martin here. I'm Jarrett's dad. Here's some photos I took when he was packing that rig. I'm very proud of him! ...and I got me a new assistant. Thanks for taking the time to respond to his posts, Nick. I know he really appreciates it and so do I. Brett "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Hey Red! Check out Jarrett's post in the General Skydiving section. That's you, bro! "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Rex Thanks for the input. Coming from the former owner of the plane carries a lot of weight. And a jumper as well. Do you get to jump much these days? Have you been to Kapowsin or Molalla? Let's go over your reply, point by point. And correct me if I’m wrong... Our airport is 375 feet above the ocean and we are on the other side of the mountains. Much cooler, denser air. A skydive from 12K lasts, what 60 seconds or so? What would going to 13k add? 5 or 8 seconds? Shit, why quibble over 8 seconds. They only have to stay on the bull for 8 seconds, right! As a skydiver, you should know that 5 or 8 seconds is a lot. But that's not even the point, is it Rex. What we're talking about is giving the jumpers what they want, versus how much it will cost the drop zone. It's a trade off and a gamble but just using simple numbers doesn't do anything for the big picture. And I'm not convinced that your numbers are right, or even if you have them. I know the difference between an Otter and a Turbine 207. Don't them Otters have two motors? And I one time seen twenty-four of them sky-jumpers git in one once. This Turbine 207 is quieter, more comfortable and gets more jumpers higher and faster. Instead of wondering if they might, just maybe, get a four way going to 10 grand if they wait around long enough, they are arguing over whether or not they got 4 or 5 points on that seven way. It's a wonderful airplane and we are lucky and fortunate to have it available. I want to keep it around. We need to use it as best we can for the jumpers, present and hopefully future, as well as the owners. We are lucky to have a local get us this wonderful aircraft. As a matter of fact, I know these people very well. One of 'em used to work for me when I owned this drop zone. We're brothers and he loves skydiving as much as I do (well, maybe not that much) or he wouldn't have taken the steps to get it. Business wise, he was doing more than just fine with two 182's. He has taken a real gamble with this turbine and now that we have it, we cannot go back. This is his legacy at our drop zone. We are trying to entice more jumpers to Toledo and we want them to stay longer, make more jumps and spend more money. And of course, have more fun. Isn't that the point? We celebrate the Turbine 207 every weekend. Even when it's raining. As a matter of fact, I feel a bonfire coming on this weekend. I'll be there. Come on down and I'll buy you a beer, Rex. We do pay for the extra altitude (that we sometimes don't get). Our jump rates are as high or higher than anyone else’s in the region. I usually just drive to Central California or the coast. There are plenty of great DZ's there. It's the big leagues, you know. You spelled Perris wrong. But it is wonderful in the fall. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

RR Hey, right on again, man. I do want to clarify something: Our jumpers are doing a pretty damn good job of ramping up to the turbine. Way better than I expected. For the most part, they are showing up to the DZ earlier, they get their gear packed sooner, they meet the plane. A lot of our regulars are even getting second rigs. What I mean by rushing them is when the weather has been shitty all day long and all of a sudden there's a hole and and everyone's all asses and elbows getting going. Next thing you know is we're at the airplane almost literally being pushed through the door (keep in mind, everone on the load is there. Nobody is running to the plane or gearing up) Next thing you know we're at the end of the runway and the door is still open and half the jumpers don't have their seatbelts on yet. "Hey! Check 'ol Tommy's chest strap over there, will ya" "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

RR I didn't intend for this to turn into a disscusion on maketing and competing drobzones. Even if we had the exact same jump planes as the bigger area DZ's we still coudn't compete directly with them because we don't have any bathrooms! But the big boys don't have our attitude or our miles and miles of open fields or our great nieghbors, etc. Shoobi Knutson told me a long time ago at a Halloween boogie we were were having (we had a Porter) that if we could just get a turbine of some kind on a regular basis that the jumpers from xxx and xxx would flock to our DZ (OK, fuck it...it's Toledo) because of the good times and the location, and the naked chicks etc. The point he was making. The point I'm making here is that there is an invisible line so to speak, that jumpers subconciously use to choose where to jump. This turbine 207 puts us just on the good side of that line. We are seeing a slow but steady trickle of curious jumpers from other DZ's trickle in. Only to find out that...."Whaaat!? It only goes to 11,5?? For 21 bucks!? Our turbine goes to 13,5 and we got bathrooms!" There's more to it than that, of course, so don't waste your time in explaining things I already know. I'm just trying to get our DZO to use the 207 more effeciently and he's not doing that. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Oh, make no mistake about it. I know what the answers are. The problem is my buddy the DZO is tired of hearing it from me. I wanted some back up. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

It's the wife or girlfriend behind the DZO that really runs the show. Christ, everyone knows that. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

near sea level "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Aggie D Thanks for the quick reply. I agree with your thoughts on everything. But consider… Tandem rigs, instructors, packers, manifest scheduling and marketing are all things to consider for a successful tandem operation. The time you might think is being saved by doing back to back to back tandems and putting them out at a lower altitude is more than doubly negated by too few rigs or by having three different types of rigs, or when inexperienced instructors move too slow, and a million other little things. And that’s not the real issue anyway. I’m talking about using the aircraft in such a way that it is an efficient, effective tool to entice experienced jumpers to come to the drop zone and make as many jumps as possible. Tandems and other students are what keep a DZ in buisiness but it is the experienced jumper that keeps the turbines in the air over the long run. I have had many discussions with the DZO. Him and I are close like brothers (a story for another time) but we have not crunched numbers. Don’t really need to. I do know this: If that turbine was even close to losing money, we wouldn’t be having this discussion because it would have been long gone. In a 182, the difference in the time and fuel it takes to go to 12k as opposed to 10k make doing so uneconomical. The difference between going to 13k versus 12k in a turbine in terms of time lost and fuel burnt is minimal. Particularly when compared to the negative experiences it gives the experienced jumper, who pass that along to other experienced jumpers, who make up DZ staff and who recruit tandems and who take out the trash and buy equipment, etc., etc. And your not using the equipment in the way that it was designed (or at least why we use them for skydiving) It’s like if your girlfriend gets a boob job but won’t take off her bra. The might as well have stayed small. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

So what would you rather have? Tandems below you or next to you in the airplane? Remember, tandems keep the dropzone going but experienced jumpers keep the turbine going. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

The DZ is 375 feet above the ocean. The Tubine 207 burns jet fuel and carries a load of 7 jumpers plus pilot to 13k in 18 1/2 minutes "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Fellow skydiving professionals: I need some help convincing a DZO to change a couple of procedures. As a former DZO myself (I used to own the very same drop zone) I know that it’s damn near impossible. But with help from industry professionals such as yourself, we can convince him that it was his idea all along. Here’s the deal: Ours is a small, old school, drop zone in the Northwest. Our jump aircraft have always been single engine, piston powered Cessnas with the occasional Twin Beech or DC-3 for a season or two. Our turbine experiences have basically been limited to leasing aircraft for boogies once a year. We made the big, permanent turbine leap late last fall when we acquired a Cessna 207 with the SOLOY turbine conversion. For the unfamiliar, it is a single engine, high wing turbine that looks like an elongated 206. Cargo door and traditional jump door. Plenty of steps and handles. It will carry the pilot and seven jumpers to 13,000 feet AGL in 18 1/2 minutes. I timed it myself. I should also note two other things: The two pilots (one is the DZO himself) are highly experienced jump pilots and as safe and competent as any I have ever been around but this is their first real experience with turbines. Also, our DZ is 400 feet or so above sea level. We now have a turbine. They go higher, faster and carry more passengers or cargo. Skydivers like that! And because that’s what they are designed to do, the aircraft work more efficiently and are more cost effective when flown to their capabilities. The specifics: Jumpers pay $21 to 12k agl. (The plane isn’t allowed to go higher and often times we get out at 11,5 or less) We have three different altitudes for tandems. Jumpers are being rushed to the airplanes. Here’s what I think: There should be one set jump altitude and that altitude should be 13,000 above the ground. Our prices should fall in line with the rates at other area turbine drop zones. We should have one altitude (13k) for tandems. We should strive to make it easy and convenient for the customer (more packing, staging and loading area, an efficient PA system, etc.) as opposed to simply telling them to hurry up. I have very specific reasons for everything listed here and I have the experiences and examples to back them up. But I want others with similar experience to weigh in first. And please feel free to disagree and correct. I don’t know everything, just most everything. Brett "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Hey Scott. ...good to see you're still around and that you still don't know what your talking about. See ya's in Madras this fall! Brett "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

No worries, little brother! Have fun and be safe and the beer will be on ME! "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"