brettpobastad

I am trying to learn something, I'm also trying to teach something. ...but you haven't been around long enough yet, have you, sonny? Brett "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

What I find quite humoros abut this whole thing is that differant dropzones have differant philosophies about exit order. You show up at a new DZ and, if appropriate, you are told or shown the policies and procedures. Does anyone ever ask the person giving the briefing why they do it this way? Here's what I think: There are two types of separation between jumpers, horizontal and vertical. Realize that when all is said and done, you need equal amounts of both. Vertical seperation happens naturally and shouldn't be fucked with. On the other hand, horizontal separation has to be 'acted upon' or 'reacted to', so to speak. In other words, the jumper can more easily affect it. All things being equal, and taking into consideration the particular needs and circumstances of the individual dz, here's the way to do it: Fastest falling, lowest opening out first. Slowest / highest out last. Freefly, relative work (big to small), AFF, tandem, CRW, wing. Count to six (or whatever) for horizontal seperation. establish landing pattern procedures and no spiraling. Simple. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

No, thank you little brother. Brett "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

I'm done, John. People certainly know where I stand on this issue. The smart ones also realize I'm correct. Brett "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

First of all, I need to make the statement that, yes, anything can happen! We're trusting our life to a buncha nylon and rubber bands. And of course, I wasn't there to see the results of 'ol hook n release' bag lock tandem. So it's maybe not quite fair of me to say this but I will anyway. You didn't have a bag lock because of double stowing your lines. Hook n pile didn't have a bag lock because of double stowing his suspension lines. John, you seem to be onea those newer jumpers that is going about things in the right way. I personaly apreciate that. But be carefull who and what you listen to. If you've seen the movie Spinal Tap, you'll get this analogy....just make ten louder! Brett PS Check out the attached picture. Might Hoop n Load's bag lock have locked something like this? "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

1. Double Stowing your suspension lines is not a good idea because it can contribute to line twists, off heading openings and harder openings. 2. Double (or triple or quadruple) stowing WILL NOT cause a bag lock. These are the facts. Brett "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

You're not going to get line dump if you use the proper stow band, stow your lines neat, stow them the same length a bit on the long side. I don't care if Bill Booth, Ted Strong, Domina Jalbert, Elvis or the good Lord himself, down from the heavens, tells you to double stow....don't you listen to them. DO NOT DOUBLE STOW! "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

JR If you ever run into him to get that logbook signature, have him contact me, I still have a bumper sticker and a beer mug I forgot to give him. Brett Got any good Bob Sinclair stories? "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

SKYDIVE TOLEDO used to be called The TOLEDO PARACHUTE CENTER and is one of the oldest dropzones in the Northwest. It has been in continous operation since 1973. Located at the Ed Carlson Memorial Field just 3 miles East of I-5 near the small town of Toledo (pop. 648) in Southwest Washington State, Skydive Toledo is just a little over an hour North of Portland, Oregon and just under two hours South of Seattle, Washington. Great Scenery and a great skydiving vibe is the best reason to come to Toledo. If your looking for multiple turbine aircraft and 30 ways, you'd be better off looking elsewhere. If a couple of casual skydives over beautiful scenerey with a great view of Mt St. Helens sounds good, then this is the place for you. Amenities are few but it's not unusual to be invited to a local jumpers house for breakfast. Camping and bonfires are incouraged, of course.

Great story, Air-Tee! I gotta nother good Lew Sanborn story, but I'll save it for later. Hey, what about that Phantom 24'? I still have one in my current rig. Who was your roommate? Shoobi Knutson told me several years ago that he had a hand in designing and building them. I've got three or four rides on mine including one just a coupla years ago and it lands great (for a round). Of course, I'm not dragging it earthward at 240 el-bee's either. Now don't start giving me shit for having a round reserve. I met Bill Jones on New Years Eve (or was it Christmas Eve?) at Will Renfroe's house in Taft, California in '97 or so. He's a pretty cool guy himself. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Ahh,haa,ha... You're all right, my man! Brett "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

I guess it doesn't matter which one of us thinks he said it first (I did!) We seem to agree on whats going on out there during the entire canopy opening process. Now if we can only get these other 'Huck-Bobs" to pay attention. Then you won't mind if I lift your design, right? Hey Sparky! If you don't mind me asking, when and where did you make your first jump? Mine was July of '76 in Toledo, Washington. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

I met Lew Sanborn at a traffic light in Longview, Washington. It was way back in 'nine-one' or so. I was driving down the freeway on my way to my rigger's house to work on getting my ticket. On the freeway, I passed this motor home with a USPA sticker and vanity plates that read D-1. OK, I freaked out a little and slowed down next to him, waving frantically and pointing to my own USPA sticker. Lo and behold, he gets off at the same exit as I do and now I'm following him through town waiting for him to stop for gas or something. After awhile, I realize he's heading out of town towards the Washington coast. If I don't get him now, I never will. Finally, a red light! Its a pretty major road but only one lane of traffic and I'm about 8 cars behind his motor home (I never claimed to be either Starsky or Hutch) I make my move! I slam the Camaro into PARK (yes, I had a mullet at the time) and make a dash for his motor home with a handfull of bumper stickers and a TOLEDO PARACHUTE CENTER beer mug in my hands. I'm hoping for a long light. He must have seen me coming 'cause he rolled down the window. I'm jumping up and down like an idiot yelling "You're D-1!, You're D-1! You....YOU! ...ARE ...LEW SANBORN! In hindsite, I think he tried to say something to me but I'm yelling out stuff like 'owning a DZ down the road' and 'father of skydiving' and 'legend of the sport' and 'can I go with you?'. Stuff like that. The light, of course, turns green and now his wife is gently telling him (OK, she was yelling) to go because it's a green light. Wait, maybe it was 'Honey, this looks like a car-jacking'. Well, Lew slowly starts to move forward. The drivers behind us are standiing on their horns. Missus Sanborn is yelling 'Honey...HONEY! Goddammit LEW! I'm still doing my 'Elvis Groupie' bit and the great LEW SANBORN is patiently listening. Finger poised, and pointed out the window. He's probably thinking if only I would shut up for one second, he could say hello. Finally, he says 'Great to meet you. Good luck with your rigger's ticket' and moves on. I'm standing there in the middle of Ocean Beach Highway, outside of Longview, Washington in the United States of America and 20 miles from the dropzone that I owned, holding a bunch of bumper stickers and a TOLEDO PARACHUTE CENTER beer mug. That's how I met D-1. The Great LEW SANBORN. Brett Martin Note: This is a true story, including the Camaro and the mullet. Lew's wife didn't actually cuss or anything, though. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Wait a second....you're not 'Pookie-Bear' are you? "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Really? No Shit! I'll have to give him back 25 points. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Spark First of all, I think we actually agree in principle on the double-stow issue. Not needed, could cause other problems...right? But your statement.... ...doesn't even begin to account for all the factors that contribute to hard openings. The size, type and condition of the pilot chute, bridle length, body position, the jumpers weight, the size of the canopy...and on an on. Including how you deal with stowing your lines. How fast or how slow the lines are pulled from the bag (line extraction) dictates how hard or how soft the 'force' of your 'snatch' will be. (Hey! I like that one! Snatch Force! Somebody should do an all wimmin's 4-way team and call it that.) And Snatch Force will affect the next part of the opening sequence, which of course is 'Opening Shock'. That D-bag deal of your's is right on! That's what I'm talking about That's making my point for me! You do not need to double stow to slow down your opening. A finer point that I think you are missing is that if you do double stow, you may actually increase the overall opening shock. Brett Notes: 1. That bag design looks great. Is that your design? Kerri Farrington has something similar. 2. You put that bag into the wrong hands and your asking for trouble. That type of deployment device (much like a reserve freebag) calls for more care and tecnique when stowing. 3. All you posters out there getting ready to tell me about the team SNATCH FORCE. Don't bother. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

When I sew on a ripstop patch, that is the permanent patch. On a main parachute, there's nothing wrong with this type of fix for small tear or burn holes. And besides, if you do a 'permanent, poindexter manual' patch the right way. It should take you a wholre hellava lot longer and it should be quite a bit bigger than i ripstop tape patch. The only drawback to this method is that you don't make as much money. But why am I talking to you? "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Very cool, brother. Very cool.... Brett www.thepoopsheet.com "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

There's always a chance that anything can happen in this goddam sport! Hell, there's a chance that one of these day 'ol Hook n' pile will say something that makes some sense. I think that the chances of what you are going out of your way to guard against is extremely unlikely to happen. And how you are going about it may create other issues that are even worse. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Hey, sorry Nate! Didn't mean to dog your man. And as you read some of these replies, you should be able to see that just because the feds gave a guy a riggers ticket doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about. Be carefull who you listen to. Just because their 'Senior' to you doesn't mean that you have to take what they say at face value. In regards to what he told you, and maybe I missed something, but...it would be pretty unlikely that a group of lines (still stowed or already unstowed) would find their way into the loop of another stowed group of lines because that stow was too long? I'm not even sure that was a proper sentence right there. I must have mis-read your description. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

For someone so young in the sport, you have much wisdom and understanding, grasshopper. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Sorry, ain't buyin' this one. There has to be something else going on here. I can see a tube stoe, maybe...doing something like that but not any type of mil-spec rubber band of any size. Did you and the passenger wheigh 163 lbs combined? Are you sure the reserve wasn't out and inflated when you deployed the main? That would definately slow you down enough! And if my rubber bands refused to unstow on the ground like they did to you, well...I would, for sure, give them a good talking-to! "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Kinda like fucking a fat chick and not telling your friends, right? No, sorry! I see what you mean. "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

Incorrect. We stow reserve canopy suspension lines in a pouch as opposed to rubber band line stows because it is more mechanically efficient during deployment. The bagged canopy is much less prone to twist or flip from side to side because the lines are extracted from the middle as opposed to from one side to the other as with rubber band deployed d-bags. Lines that are stowed in a free bag pouch do not by design, speed up deployment. The reason more jumpers don't use this type of line stow system is because the manufacturers send us the equipment with the little rubber band stow dealies on the side of the main d-bag! Why do they do that? Because they don't want to have count on the average jumper to stow the lines in the pouch the right way or neat enough. Rubber band d-bags are compromise. Thats why the newer style of bag with the line stow points are closer to the center line of the bag and on the face of it, similar to where the stow pouch is on a free bag. Get it? Line dump is the lesser of two evils than line hesitation? No it's not. Especially on a reserve! "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

What is a 'Senior Packer'? "It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"