gemini

The average age of the GI in Vietnam was 19 and they were forced to make very difficult decisions sometimes. But your point is not valid because almost all the draft dodgers were were at least 22 because they stayed in college under the student deferment and only received their draft notices after they graduated. One more time...these guys were afraid and they ran and hid to leave the rest of us to fill the draft quotas. Blue skies, Jim

I have a hat from the club, does that count? Blue skies, Jim

I believe there was a rule passed several decades ago prohibiting civilians from flying on military aircraft. Seems like every general officer and politician was taking "free" trips (including family) at the expense of the US taxpayer. Unfortunately, there was no exclusion for non-military jumpers. Blue skies, Jim

K is right there is no official record, just like the "State Record" jumps. My two cents which are roughly modeled after the VSCR stuff: A record "hybrid" would be a jump consisting of freeflyers and belly jumpers in equal numbers where no less than 50% of the freeflyers are hangers on or in a contact stand on the belly base and the rest are stingers. Both the hangers and stingers may be in contact with other hangers and stingers as long as the line is docked on the belly base. All freefyers must be docked except designated cameraflyers. Blue skies, Jim

Although we entered the war under false circumstances (Gulf of Tonkin Incident) and allowed corruption to run rampant at all levels, the war against communism was not entirely wrong as most liberals would have you believe. The following was just received: By Thomas P. Cadmus "Thousands of Christians from the remote central highlands of Vietnam gathered in their provincial capitals for a prayer vigil last Easter weekend. As they knelt, according to well-documented reports, communist authorities and soldiers in civilian clothes bludgeoned them with clubs, shovels and nail-affixed boards. The exact number killed and injured is unknown, withheld by a government that keeps its human-rights abuses well-veiled to the rest of the world. After the massacre, access to the highlands by foreign observers was blocked for a two-week period and, following that, was tightly controlled to only certain villages. Hundreds were reportedly arrested, tortured and jailed. This was no isolated incident. Severe religious persecution is standard practice in Vietnam, and it is escalating. Hundreds of Christians, Buddhists and followers of other faiths are in jail today, or under house arrest without charges, for peacefully following beliefs not authorized by the government. Vietnam requires government registration of churches and maintains control over their activities - from charity work to ministerial advancement to the content and publication of religious literature. Religious freedom abuses have intensified in Vietnam despite the 2001 passage of a bilateral trade agreement with the United States and multiple warnings from the U.S. State Department. On Sept. 15, Secretary of State Colin Powell presented a report designating Vietnam as a "country of particular concern" under the International Religious Freedom Act, joining such reviled human-rights performers as North Korea, Iran, Burma, China, Eritrea, Saudi Arabia and Sudan. The report thoroughly chronicled dozens of government-sanctioned abuses, often violent, against many faiths, primarily those followed by ethnic minorities in the central and northwest highlands. An estimated 400 churches have been destroyed by the government in Vietnam since 2000. One Catholic priest, Father Nguyen Van Ly, was arrested in May 2001 and sentenced to 15 years in prison for "damaging the government's unity policy" by writing a letter critical of the Vietnamese government to a U.S. human-rights commission. He remains behind bars, as do at least a confirmed 44 other religious leaders. The Vietnam government routinely attempts to force believers of unauthorized religions to recant their faiths. Some reportedly have been coerced to drink animal blood mixed with alcohol in staged ceremonies to promote the revival of ancient tribal rituals that won't compete with atheistic communist doctrine. A new law, set to take effect Nov. 15, will allow Vietnamese authorities greater freedom to arrest anyone whose religious practices differ with government wishes, even in their own homes. In the crosshairs of these abuses are some of the most loyal wartime allies America has ever known: the indigenous Montagnard people. Approximately half of the adult male Montagnard population was killed in action, fighting alongside U.S. soldiers during the Vietnam War. After Saigon fell in 1975, most of the Montagnards were landlocked and unable to escape, left to face a vengeful new regime on their own. Only a handful made it out. Since then, while the rest of Vietnam has tripled in population, the number of Montagnards has been culled nearly in half through a process some watchdog groups call "cultural leveling." Others call it genocide. Accusations of government-coerced sterilization, property seizure and harassment are widespread. Meanwhile, the Vietnam Human Rights Act of 2004 languishes in the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The bill would simply freeze non-humanitarian U.S. aid to Vietnam at 2004 levels, meaning no new increases in funding until the communist regime proves substantial progress on human rights and religious freedom. The measure, H.R. 1587, was introduced by Rep. Christopher Smith, R-N.J., and passed overwhelmingly in the House on July 19. The Senate version was introduced Sept. 9 by Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., and was referred to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. But without further action, the measure will die with the end of 108th Congress. A similar Vietnam human-rights bill introduced in 2001 passed by a 410-1 landslide in the House, only to die later in committee. At the time, Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., served as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on East Asian and Pacific Affairs, and opposed the bill. In a widely publicized 2002 letter, Kerry wrote that he and Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., alike feared "it may hinder rather than advance the cause of human rights in Vietnam. We are concerned that denying aid to Vietnam would actually slow human-rights improvements." Smith's bill does not deny aid. It merely caps non-humanitarian U.S. aid at 2004 levels until Vietnam proves its human-rights and religious freedom policies are improving. Since the 2001 version was denied a vote in the Senate, the number of killings, beatings and arrests of innocent worshipers in Vietnam is anyone's guess. Reports of abuses, meanwhile, keep piling up. It is unconscionable to fail these prayerful people - so many of whom are allies we left behind in Vietnam - because some members of the Senate won't so much as give this bill its day in court. By failing to act, the committee also sends a message to Hanoi, which covets U.S. aid and trade but, as yet, has been given no good reason to change its draconian human-rights policies. All these former allies - to whom thousands of U.S. veterans owe their lives - want is the freedom to pray for something better. Their faith rests in us. Every American who values freedom of religion, basic human rights and support for former allies in their time of need must contact their U.S. senators immediately and demand a vote on the Vietnam Human Rights Act of 2004. To neglect our former allies once again is, at best, to subject them to communist thought control. At worst, our lack of action delivers their death sentence. As the world's leading voice of freedom, democracy and human dignity, America simply must do better. All it takes is a vote. __________ Thomas P. Cadmus of Michigan is the National Commander of The American Legion, the world's largest veterans service organization." I would like to believe that this report is false, but snopes doesn't have anything on it at this time. Blue skies, Jim

oops even left off gladewater.... Blue skies, Jim

my mistake dave. Just got in a hurry to respond. Blue skies, Jim

I didn't say that. If prior to my "draft" I felt I needed to leave due to what was going on I would and if I had a family I would take them too. In fact, my family fled Syria due to Islamic persecution in the 1890's (We were members of the Christian minority). However, if I had received my "draft" notice I would have fought the system with every ounce of my strength because that would be the only way I could give the next guy some hope that he could also fight and win. Wendy, immigration because you want to better your life is different than hiding from the draft or any other law your home country has you may disagree with. Look at the dz. We have a number of foreign nationals who disagree with the current regime in their home country so they came to the US to live and work. Nothing wrong with that and I admire them for giving up family, friends and other to start a new life. I guess the position I am taking is that in Texas terms someday we all may have to draw a line in the sand and stand and fight for what we believe. The guys that fled to Canada did not fight for their beliefs. I believe that they fled from fear and abandoned those of us who were left to take their place. Was that fair to us? Blue skies, Jim

Yes. He stood up and stated his beliefs and was willing to suffer the consequences of those beliefs. Yes because they didn't give a damn about what was going to happen to the rest of us. I agree with your point, but if they sincerely believe they will fight for their beliefs not run and hide. If I believed in them I would, if I didn't I would be willing to be executed for my beliefs. The ones that lied, ran and hide ARE chickenshit snakes and cannot be trusted. The ones that stood up, voiced their opinion and defended their beliefs, I trust and respect. This of course includes former presidents! Blue skies, Jim

Good lord man, stay out of Leesville. I was there in 1967 and it hasn't changed since then! See the attached map for approximate locations of New Orleans, Tallahassee, Moss Point & Houston (Spaceland & Waller). Hope this helps. Blues, Blues, Jim Blue skies, Jim

Deguello is RW 8-way, 16-way, 10-way Blue skies, Jim

ummhh...think of the difficulty in forming a 100-way anything. Blue skies, Jim

But it was the law at the time and could be legally enforced. Slavery is off topic, but it was legal prior to 1865 in some states and it took a war to get it changed. And during that war, the draft was instituted and someone who received a draft notice could pay someone else to take their place. This practice was not "right" either, but it was accepted at the time. A country must have laws. Not all of them are "right" or equitable or fair to all citizens of that country, but hopefully overtime changes will be made that are for the good of the country. Without laws you have anarchy; even with laws if they are all ignored by the oilice or the citizens you have anarchy. I understand their fear, but cannot condone their cowardice. We all were in fear at the time and would have rather stayed with our families and friends. Some went on to the military and did their jobs, some resisted and were prosecuted or given alternative government service, and some fled the country. All were afraid. Ali was man enough to stand firmly behind his beliefs and he eventually prevailed. I can respect him for that. I cannot ever respect a man who fled his country for any reason. You are correct, it can be legal and morally wrong at the same time. But I would fight to change something I believed to be morally wrong, not flee and hid leaving the problem to others to deal with. Again the draft dogers were not protesting the war. This is media hype. They were afraid to die and left the country. As far as I am concerned they should not have been given amnesty either. Blue skies, Jim

Happy Birthday K! Enjoy your day. Blue skies, Jim

The worst reason in my opinion is peer pressure. This is often disguised. You hear comments such as: 1. He jumps a xx sq ft canopy and I am a better canopy pilot than him. 2. I learn faster than most jumpers. 3. I am a better jumper than my jump numbers indicate. 4. I've done xx jumps on this canopy so need to downsize to an x. What you rarely hear is "I've gotten everything out of this canopy that it can do after xxx jumps, I think I will downsize." Blue skies, Jim

If you have access to Southwest Airlines they have been cheaper lately than Orbitz. I flew to WFFC and Perris this summer for $89 and $69 one-way respectively. They do not participate in the on-line ticket services, so you have go to the airline website http://www.soutwest.com . Blue skies, Jim

Amazing story. Reads like a draft of a screenplay. Kinda reminds me of the Oliver Stone JFK movie. A little bit of truth and a whole lot of rumors, lies and speculation. Blue skies, Jim

bump to hopefully get more responses Blue skies, Jim

Let's see: 1. The draft was legal and had been since WWII in the US. 2. All men had to register at their 18th birthday. 3. The war in Vietnam started in 1954 for the US although it had actually been going prior to WWII without major US involvement until after 1945. 4. Many men upon registering for the draft declared themselves concientious objectors. 5. Each person drafted was selected by a local draft board and sent a letter requesting them to report for a physical and induction in accordance with the law. 6. Men who were married, had certain occupations, were in school, were in the National Guard or Reserves, and those who were not physically qualified were given various permanent and temporary exemptions. Looks to me like those who fled were dodging the draft, so I would call them draft dodgers. As I said earlier the majority of these quys were not protesting the war, but they were afraid they might be maimed or killed so they ran away. Cassius Clay (later known as Mohammed Ali) was a true war protester. When he was drafted, I believe he fought it by registering as a concientious objector under religious grounds. He did not flee the country. Granted it was an expensive fight and almost cost him his career, but he stood his ground. A true war protestor would have stated his beliefs and fought for them especially since all of us knew at the time that if you received the "Greetings..." letter you would probably end up eventually in Vietnam. It became politically correct to protest the war in the late 60's, so the media started calling them war protestors instead of draft dodgers. It's very similar to what is happening today where various terrorists are labeled as rebels, freedom fighters, etc. by the media. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it is a damn duck. Blue skies, Jim

Josh that was a great episode. I saw it for the first time last month when I was in Canada. Thanks for the laugh.... Blue skies, Jim

MeeP, mEEp, MEEP Have to resist urge to post ... Blue skies, Jim

You bet Mac! I do not dislike someone simply because we disagree especially about politics, religion, sports. Life is to short. Besides without all you guys & girls with different viewpoints, life would be awfully boring! Meep, meep Blue skies, Jim

Prayers & good thoughts for your Mom. Blue skies, Jim

Damn Conway, wish I could do something for you. I had heard a rumor that this might be coming, but didn't want to believe it. Let me know if there is anything I can do. See you in the sky...blues, Jim Blue skies, Jim

Divot@jumptalk.com is John Lee's email addy. Blue skies, Jim