Baksteen

Hmz I'm a fairly new instructor and so far I haven't had one of those yet. Been lucky that way thus far Now it seems like I might get my first one Those come in many guises.. I'm always a bit wary around kitesurfers and paragliders. Not that they always have an arrogant attitude, but relatively speaking they know a lot about canopy control (steering). They keep hearing familiar things during the FJC and it's tempting to take stuff less seriously. It's up to the instructor to cure them of that. Once, I had a paraglider ask me the most ridiculous questions when I was explaining malfunctions. I wiped the annoying little smile off his face by smacking my hand on the table in front of him as hard as I could and turning around while saying: "You're dead. You didn't pay attention, you didn't act. You froze, you fucked up and now you're dead. A hush descended over the classroom and then one of the students (also a parapenter) said: "It's suddenly a lot less funny now..." Lesson learned.

Dude - cut it out! Whether they listen to you or not, they're still people. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

I cannot believe you said any of that. Oh, it's a test, right? Okay, Mr. popsjumper. Educate us. What is wrong with what billvon said? I agree completely with him on this. Once upon a time, in the pre-ACF* days, students were taught about something called a "hard deck" (or something similar), which was a certain altitude. At this altitude they were to have solved any inconvenienceceseses they'd encountered, such as a hung up slider, line twists and/or end cell closure. In order to determine whether they'd reached this "hard deck" students were given an altimeter. Of course, this was when students were expected to fly their canopies themselves instead of waiting for their instructors to scream through the radio. * for the old farts out there, ACF = Accelerated Canopy Flight; a teaching method in which the student learns to fly their canopy predictably and reliably by way of remote control by two or, at later levels, one instructor. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

We're a "static-line only" DZ. I wouldn't put out students without an alti - I'd give them mine if necessary. Because noone is allowed to jump without a working alti I'd then be forced to ride the plane down, unless I'd happen to accidentally fall out when watching the exit of my last student. Tandem passengers aren't students. They're cash cows. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

190 and 170(for the very light people) are fine, but such canopies are referred to as 'boats' by some people. Fortunately they are a very small minority. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

I call BS. There's no way Vskydiver would need to pay for a packjob if she didn't want to. She'd only have to wink seductively at some hapless travelling jumper who isn't on DZ.com and he'll be begging her to let him pack for her.... "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

Reminds me of a funny story.. I recently met a person who left their job to get their pilot's licence in pursuit of their dream of becoming a captain on an airliner. That licence is in the pocket, but I know that doesn't mean they have enough hours to fly an airliner, or even something like a Caravan. So I told said person that they might like to become a jump pilot and that way build some more hours and work their way up to bigger aircraft. The person gave me a condecending look and literally said "that no airline would take a guy seriously who spent their time on a job like flying skydivers" or [towing advertisements] or for that matter any other kind of GA. They then went on to say that the first thing to do was to find a job with an airliner and then start building hours while flying for them. Since this person was easily over thirty (conservative estimate) I just shook my head at them and walked away. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

I don't know, but I'm guessing that all three of your 'cases in point' have something to do with the 'Dude' getting into the pants of the newbie... As for the last one, that will start me off on a rant of my own. I keep hearing the argument that tiny wee girls should fly tiny wee canopies (150, 135, 120) asap, because they are "underloading the big student canopies" and "aren't in control/have no say in where they're going" and "cannot flare such boats". I don't buy it. Even with my exit weight of 220 I have a WL of .8 under a Manta. A couple of hundreds of jumps ago, you'd hear experienced jumpers talk about Manta's as "they flare like a baglock". I don't know, but I have seen students make perfect tippety toe landings under lightly loaded Mantas...and indeed did so myself when I re-enacted my first jump for the occasion of making my 300th jump. Point is, Manta's (and other student canopies) just don't flare the way experienced jumpers are used to, but they DO flare just fine - if you know how to do it. So why not put "tiny wee girls" under a 210 or 190 at the smallest for their first couple of hundreds of jumps? Can't penetrate into the winds then either sit it out, or learn to spot. As to the flaring issues, I'm guessing that an 80-pound girl simply lacks the arm strength to flare *any* canopy. Perhaps she should work out? Rant over, flame on. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

1. The moment I landed from my first jump. 2. at 100 or so jumps. I was determined to all my downsizing on club gear and then buy gear which would last me at least several hundreds or jumps. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

Man.. and to think for me mid-twenties is already uncomfortably warm. Come to think of it, I prefer girls in their mid-twenties instead of their mid-eighties too. (Skymama will probably ban me for this, but it's worth it ) "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

10 lb isn't that exciting; it will make a difference of ~0.1 in wingloading. That kind of non-compliance isn't what will kill those hot shots - excuse me; "fast learners". As to the additional 20 lb of lead at some point he'll be found out by the DZ staff while strapping on all that lead. Person gets a warning or grounding or in extreme cases can even get his license and/or any rating they possess suspended. At least, those are possibilities over here, in accordance with the Ducth Basic Safety Regulations. In practice, the instructor on duty has a certain leeway in how to deal with and/or enforce those BSRs. But the BSRs dealing with wingload, canopy size and currency at least exist, so the instructor has always something to back up his/her decision if a person is making unsafe decisions as to canopy size and won't listen to reason. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

Thank you for the additional information.

Great story, thanks for sharing. Out of interest, which kind of ADD were you using during the second incident? "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

That's quite a few IFs you have there

No need

I teach students to leave the brakes stowed and to refrain from flaring, both for Biplane and Side by side configurations. Downplanes are to be cutaway immediately, irregardless of altitude. They've got 500 square feet of fabric above their heads - why risk upsetting the stable configuration they are flying by flaring or by releasing the toggles? Use very small rear-riser inputs to turn into the wind and to prepare for a PLF. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

The fact that you're a pilot might actually work against you. Pilots, paragliders, kite surfers - they all know something about (canopy) flight/canopy control. But being taught stuff in a skydiving ground course is one thing, muscle memory quite another. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

twenty jumps on a 280, sixty on a 240, twenty on a 210. Then on to the 190 which has served me well for at least 200 jumps. Got into CReW and made some 50 jumps on a Lightning 175 (with and without some lead). Now I'm going to try a Lightning 160. For freefall I'm keeping that nice Storm 190 with the awesome flare power. No regrets. I'd rather wear some lead than try out a canopy which is too hot for me. And should I mislike the 160, well - it's back tot the 175 for me.

Standup landings are overrated. Landing safely is all that matters. Nice to see you passed level six - Keep 'em coming! "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

Yep....the way you see some people fly you'd think that a down/cross-winder is the end of the world with black death at the end of it. But I heard that your canopy bursts into flames if you don't land directly into wind Exactly. That's why pond swooping had to be invented: A long and dirty downwind swoop followed by a quick dunking to douse the flames. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

Well, I drink craft beers and scotch, and they said really nice things about those people, so I'm saying that it's spot on. BTW, alcoholics go to meetings. If you're not going to meetings, you're fine. Do boogies count? "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

I'm still in the diary-phase. When I JM a load, I especially like to have one of my students sign off the jump. If I'm feeling particularly nasty I'll even ask them for feedback. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

While CReW definitely focuses on the finer points of canopy control, the landings are not much emphasised. And let's not kid ourselves, the landing remains the most important part of any jump. Besides, nowadays the wingload for the best CReW teams is what; 2.0? 2.4? CReW is certainly heaps of fun if us pups take the right approach to learn it. However, if people take the Sangi approach to CReW, you're looking at a double fatality in the making. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

As Dragon2 once pointed out to me: Remember that you'll be loading your reserve that much heavier too. Sound advice. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

It's not my fault if everybody else on the load is a go-on-green-lemming.. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom