LawnDart21

Hey Jeff, I was just talking with Phil the other day and he told me all about how you were now out in AZ flying your ass off. That is f'n great man! Congrats! I am glad to hear your out there having such a blast. Keep in touch. (lawndart21@dropzone.com) Noonan -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Considering your reply presumed to speak for all 357 people, that they would in fact jump with thier AADs off, I applaud you for knowing so many people. (I think I know 15 people total in my life that I would actually feel comfortable speaking on thier behalf, you know 357..............) And then, and I quote: "So here's a question. You are on the 400 way. You're down to the last jump of the attempt. When you get a pin check before exit someone notices your AAD is off. Are you going to back out?" That is simply not a possibility Bill. With the container that I jump, the AAD window in up against my back. I turn it on at the beginning of the day, and check the window each time I put the rig on while on the ground. My "pin check" request at altitude would consist solely of a main pin inspection, perhaps they also peak at the reserve pin under the flap on thier own. (Go ahead pick that apart too, I invite you). There would be no way anyone would be able to notice my AAD was off. But I'll answer your 1 in a million question anyways. If on the way to altitude, I decided to take my rig off and stretch out before the attempt........and someone else happened to notice that my AAD was off, I would put my rig back on and jump the 400 way. I wouldnt even bitch about it............ Happy now? -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

If you pack your rig on a carpet as most of us do, there is a sufficient amount on static electricity on the floor, which pulls lint and dirt from the carpet into your metal cutaway housings. It doesnt take long to build up either. Think about it, you throw your rig down 5-20 times a weekend to be repacked, it adds up. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

"If you can't handle a 100-way without an AAD, you shouldn't be on a 100-way with an AAD." Just your opinion. Lucky for both of us you dont organize bigways then, because they'd only be 10-ways............... I CAN handle a 100 way without an AAD. I am just SMART enough to say I WONT jump a 100 way without one. If your soap box gets any higher you'll be able to log getting off it as a base jump. Your opinion is just that, your opinion. I'll bet if you asked most people on a 100 way if they would still jump it without thier AAD you would get some "nos". Does that make them any less safe? Nope. Does that mean they don't deserve to be on the 100 way becuase they are "negating the additional safety" as you said. Nope on that too. I trust ME and MY ABILITY on 100 ways, I dont trust my AAD, and I dont trust all of the other 99 people swooping in and getting back out to do it perfectly safe. I jump 100ways becuase they are fun, and yes the risk is worth the reward, and I jump them with an AAD, becuase in the unlilkely, yet possible event that I get knocked out in freefall by someone else, I wont go through a house or a car at 120mph and ruin someone elses day. If you approached every jumper on the world record jump and said "hey we took your AAD out while you were dirt diving becuase Hooknswoop says you shouldnt be on the jump with it", do you HONESTLY think they would have built a 357-way? -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

The best thing to do is ask the LO before you get on the plane if he/she or someone they recommend can give you a pin check when you are nearing jump run. It solves the problem from the get go. Also, you will never find a jumper unwilling to give a pin check, so don't ever be afraid to ask. And if you go to the LO, you'll find the best suited person for the job. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

If its an injury swooping, I can't say it would really be fair to attack them, because every swooper eats dirt periodcally, its just part of the learning curve. The safest safety nazi will still leave a divot from time to time, its unavoidable. How big of a divot is acceptable?, now thats where the debate should start.............lol -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

I can only think of one type of jump I wouldn't make without an AAD, really big ways. Too many variables with 80 to 100 other people trying to get in to the formation and then turning around and getting back out. I witnessed a collison at 12,000ft where a tunnel visioned jumper fullout tracked right through another jumper flying their slot waiting for the formation to build. How he wasnt knocked out cold, I will never know. It was like a car wreck. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Great question Derek. I answered no for two reasons. 1) I got through the first 1750 skydives with a set routine & set decision altitude. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? 2) I have two cars. One has seat belts only. The other has seatbelts and airbags. I drive them both with the same amount of caution. Blue skies, Tom -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Kris, Its a nice change to hear someone with such a responsible outlook on canopy progression. Binkster, Just remember: If you swoop, eventually you will crash. It's only a matter of time and how much pain is involved. How much pain is entirely up to you. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

What does NSFW mean? -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

I'm gonna call truce and call it a day in this thread. Lets simply agree to disagree. It was a productive conversation, but its starting to go in circles. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Why don't we just agree to disagree and call it a day. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

I dont think my posts were snobby at all. I quote you: "but no one should be put down, attacked, or dismissed without consideration" I didnt put anyone down. I didnt attack anyone. I dismissed the advice, but I considered it before I dismissed it. Where is the problem? -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Yeah, I'm so throwing stones........ And my point was that IMHO he's wrong, a coach is simply more likely to berate a student than an AFFI. Why? They are newer to teaching, and some feel that they have more to prove. End of story. That does not mean I think every coach would berate, nor does it mean I am attacking coaches as a group. But that isnt going to prevent a handful of people that have thier coach ratings from saying "Hey, I am a coach, so he must be talking about me, and I would never do that, so he must be wrong." -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Good input, I had to assume when I originally posted(given that I post at work and cant always go into detail.....lol) that whoever shortened her brake lines would be wary of caveat #1. Caviar #2: My thought on shorter risers would be that it would make her flare shorter and less effective. What do you think about someone showing her the safe way to wrap the brake lines around her fingers to shorten them on landing? If that solved her problem, it would indicate that the brake line length is the answer. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Thank you Sparky. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Okay, so maybe my issue is here, and I quote: "he was just extending the 'be careful' advice." For better or for worse, I guess I just have a problem with someone telling me I should "be careful" that is so new to the sport. I am careful. You dont stay in this sport very long if your not. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

For every fatality you have collected info on, how many non-fatal low turn incidents have there been? Go back and redue your Low Turn eval, and add in all of the countless low turn incidents where the "I'm Bullet Proof" jumpers were lucky enough to not kill themselves. Your numbers will change. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

You said: "Maybe that's how it ends up happening in the real world, but that doesn't change the fact that you are criticizing coaches as a group. " If that is how it happens in the REAL WORLD, then how is it unfairly cirticizing? Get a grip larsrulz. I'm not criticizing coaches as a group. I am a coach too. I dont know what it is about the internet that makes it required that a simple single statement be over analysed and picked apart word by word. If you think I'm criticizing coaches as whole, then you missed my point completely. So be it. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Good for you for stepping up here and setting the record straight. Am I the only one wondering why dtpilot didnt have the common sense to talk this out with 1cameraguy as an adult IN PERSON, rather than shout all over dz.com about a perceived injustice that wasnt even an injustice? dtpilot, next time sort out your issues in person not over the internet. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Yes, 1) Shorten your brake lines. 2) Buy longer risers. Presumably your risers are 20" stock risers. You can buy 22" risers, that will add 2" to your flare. 3) Do both. Blue skies, Tom -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

Amen Bill, "and have landed it ten times without serious injury, thus proving their competence." Its then the 11th landing when they cut off 30ft off the ground and have to make an evasive manuever that causes the headaches............but they know best. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

"If you think you've grown out of this risk...." Where in my post did I say ANTHING about risk? I was talking about the "I'm bullet proof" mentality that is periodically exhibited by "some" skydivers. By no coincidence, that mentality usually shows up around 200 jumps and can stay as long as 1000 jumps. (Hence my statement about 200-1000 jumps). Is 1000 jumps an arbitrary number? Of course it is, would you prefer I use 197-986 jumps? And yes, the "I'm bullet proof" mentality does seem to dissipate after 1000 jumps because they either 1) matured and witnessed other peoples injuries, 2) injured themselves, or 3) hooked themselves out of sport in one way or another. So those "bullet proof" individuals that are still in the sport after 1000 jumps, tend to have out grown that mentality. If you READ my post, you wouldn't have been so quick to judge me. Go make a 1000 skydives and then come back to this thread and see if you agree with me or not. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

As long as some jumpers in the 200-1000 jump range continue to believe they are bullet proof, we will continue to read the words "Low Turn" in the thread titles in the incidents forum. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.

I don't see how I lost my "bet". All I said was that I bet the instructor didnt have an AFF rating. Simply being "rated" as a instructor has nothing to do with it. -- My other ride is a RESERVE.