skygypsie

waited to long to read this & take your advice..I can't delete it

Thank you ! Update: Attorney retained for civil litigation from a firm other than presiding county where land is owned. Side benefit... her best friend growing up is married to the son of our county's only judge hearing these cases & she seems to know her way around these cases, well. We've gotten greedy now due to jerk off's failure to step up & his ( their) efforts to skate, so going for full restitution w/damages. Sheriff's Dept. concluded their report & turned over to DA to include 3 Felonies, for timber theft per DNR & US Forest Dept. Stats, criminal & willful damage to property & criminal trespass, due to his removing the logged boundary markers & survey post established. All 4 landowners registered on their deed will be included in all legal pursuits. ( 2 sisters & their husband's...wouldn't want to be sitting at their Thanksgiving table ) We're seeking restitution for a number of punitive remedies through the criminal case as well, per attorney's advice, in the event he ( they) file bankruptcy. A private Forestry Consulting Agency was retained to determine stumpage value. Per WI. Stats., once that is determined, out of pocket attorney fees are then waived, & will be included in claim against the Defendant. The Forester will be taking a look at the damages tomorrow & will also determine value of wood removed & restoration costs, so as to seek 2-4x the value per tree in punitive amounts. He will turn over his reports to the DA & our attorny. Professional tree service was contacted to determine value of trees per species to the area: Evergreen species having life of 50 years = $20/ft Shade trees w/ 20-30 year life = $12-16/in. Hired a new "certified" survey done, which concluded our land boundaries & his ( theirs) is consistent to the original & confirmed he ( they) did us wrong ! Our out of pocket costs since destruction of our land complaint filed 10/28 to date = $3000 It is likely mediation will be ordered. If neither Party can come to terms, looking at 1 -3 years before it is resolved. No doubt forfeitures will be costly, so it may be likely he ( they) will be ordered to pay an enormous amount, in addition to ours & their, attorney fees, court costs, yadayada. All the dumbasses had to do was call us . Good news: We got a temporary camper moved in & electrical service installed on 1/2 the land he left us. The remaining 1/2 is still full of their debris & downed trees. We've been ordered to leave it alone until all investigators have concluded their business on it. The rest is now a waiting game Hopefully we can continue our plans to start the build & get well /septic in next spring... Otherwise, it looks like it'll be the Tin Can cabin, a porta potty, garden hose & sponge baths... for us in the mean time. Regardless, we ARE moving there permanently then... we both have been offered fulltime DZ Staff positions in the area & commuting 7 hrs. one way is out of the question ~ SKYDIVERS ROCK ~

Whew...it's rampant, it appears throughout relationships I didn't bring up the 'attempts or direct threats". The night I was served, I wouldn't take it seriously because I thought he was still having side effects from the surguries, pain meds, etc...so I refused to move out. He let it known immediately, he wanted & was going to, keep EVERYTHING ! I moved into another room to give him some time to get it together, still not knowing he had this plan in motion for at least 3 years. One night after I came home from work, I saw him sitting on the his bed holding the 9mm he kept loaded in his night stand. We were both big into hunting, having our own personal hand guns, as well as rifles & shot guns... But I remember thinking this doesn't look good... Ya Think I put my shoes back on & picked up my cell phone, just in case, & as I went to leave the room I was in, he came charging at me, putting the loaded 9mm to my fore head, saying "I'll blow your head off before I split 1/2 my net worth with you... You have 5 minutes to grab what you want & get the f@#$ out of here" Know in my mind if someone pulls a gun, they plan to use it, so I ran out the front door dialing 911. The Sheriff happened to be a good friend of my family growing up, & he said he was coming right out to arrest him. This is the dumnb ass in me...I told him ... "no, I think he's just messed up from all the meds & stress he'd been under, I will leave." I eventually got an apartment, there was no working it out, so the divorce was filed. It was then, it was found all the hiding he'd been doing, throughout. Our divorce hearing was scheduled 10 months later. I originally left with a back pack & my Harley & that's all I got from the settlement...other then the order to pay the $500/ mo. for 2 yrs. till I was done w/ Nursing school. I was working full time days & school full time nights, because I wasn't eligible for much in school grants, loans based on our tax fling from the year before of well over $150k combined income. Guess who benefited from the the tax refund ? There had been no paper trail of assets, as he hid & moved to others names & nothing I could do about it, after the fact. I rode the HD to the hearing from my apartment 12 miles away. When I rode in everything was fine, however after leaving court, I soon found out the hard way, the cotter pin to my back brakes had been pulled... Go Figure Lesson learned...if they seem to good to be true...they are ! My relationship with my husband now, is full of pot holes, "debates" & challenges, we don't even attempt to pretend nor hinder each other, control -v- control status is not part of our game plan & it works well for us. Finances are mutually made, spent independent & integrated & we both tend to call it as we see it & smooth out the ruffled tail feathers as we go ! It's a great & trusting relationship...we know each other's lines not to cross, but sometimes need help from the other to get over our own ! My Life is Great because of him, because SKYDIVERS ROCK & to quote Boothey: " Chicks Dig Skydivers "

yes I did...overall , but wondering if you're handing out a trophy or other winner's prize It's amazing the pay off one gets from negative life occurences & still have the ability to trust someone completely...though that has been narrowed down to a tiny handful of good peeps

Small town & my son & his family still live there... I moved, they would've been left with the small town fall out ! Also, he had some pull as former EMT Assoc. President...shortly after I moved on, he got pulled over for crossing the center line. Blew a .28 breathalyzer w/ an oz. & loaded 9mm. There was a big article in the paper, but he paid an atty. $12 k...it never went to Court. The case file mysterously disappeared

Ditto

Yep, you misread...for 18 years my money was our money, as well. We built the house, we made the mortgage payments, car payments, insurance payments, trips, toys on & on & we had the savings ! I personally did all landscaping, lawn maintenance & upkeep, inside & out, plus worked a full time job, as well. By the way, I had substantial earnings during a major portion of the marriage, myself, but entrusted him to be our head of household. He hid his ( our) money, spent mine & WI. is a Marital Property State , but if there was a dirty dog hiding his bones....not much a person can do to prove otherwise, but learn from it

Though I was shocked & put into a whirlwind of trauma & change...it all worked out to my favor...relationship & quality of life wise

I'm so hoping the US Forestry Rangers & DNR will be thorough & get on top of that... but will also do my own detective work, as well. I did find out today, due to both culprit land owners living in 2 different states, & the violations took place in another, as well as, a different county from where we reside...if charges are filed, the case will be heard in Federal Court Thanks for your advice..it is very helpful !

Color me STUPID & gullible & too entrusting !! In a past life I was married 18 yrs. to a GM skilled trades worker who made up to $100k/ yr. He was self appointed, in charge of all finances, including requesting I put my weekly pay check into a joint account. That same account was the household bill paying account. I was given a weekly allowance for my personal use, which was fine, because I've always paid my share & my own way & things were being taken care of just fine We had the $500,000 house, 2 ATVs, 2 new "GM" vehicles, 2 HD's, 2 boats, yadayada. Everything was great..vacations to Cozumel, we both enjoyed hunting & fishing trips..or so I thought. That last year he had 2 serious surgeries back to back & was laid up for 6 months. Sadly, during his recup, my mom got seriously ill & died suddenly. I hadn't seen her for 3 months prior. He was nursed back to good health by me, as the " dutiful " wife Within 2 months after my mom died, he went back to work. 4 days later he came home from work & dropped an unexpected bomb on me...saying I was being served that night. I asked.." served, what do you mean served, with what ?" He said he wanted a divorce & minutes later..a knock at the door...I got served divorce papers. Come to find out for 3 years prior he'd been having an affair with my best friend, had been hiding all assets & monies, for those same 3 years prior, & closed out all joint accounts & taken out over $200,000 home equites loans & quit claim the house to his out of state daughter..all w/ out my knowledge nor consent. He later voiced, he would have had me served sooner, but needed someone to take care of him when he had the surgeries. Obviously, because I had no access to finances I ended up with a pitiful attorney & he had the income & great attorney & based on nothing we had appeared in either name, no proof ! I literally ended up with the clothes on my back and my Harley...though he was ordered to pay my attorney fees & was ordered to pay me $500/ month for 2 years, until I was done with Nursing school I enrolled in at 48, after realizing I had to get on my own feet. It's interesting how I chose Nursing In hindsight, the a$$ bite jerk did me a great favor... had he night been such a loser user, I wouldn't have ended up with the wonderful life and man I have now !

To the last 3 posters...you're opinions are exactly how we feel & we why we will stand firm on this. We wanted the trees as they were. It's the major reason we bought the land ! It's also curious where so much of the cuts of oak, pine, birch & maples have gone, though some cut logs are stacked neatly throughout. He had to have had help...110'x 220' of very thick woods, cut down in 2 days . An estimate of trees down calculated by this formula per DNR & US Foresrty Dept. (Also, per a chart of values per species= $97- $350 each.) No. of trees on an aver sq. yd. ( approx. 1 per sq. yd) = approx. loss of total trees per the lot.

This is the extent this low life is... I received a call from the selling realtor of both parcels, to us & them. Evidently, rather than making a good faith offer to settle, nor any other recourse for his responsibility, he's trying to put it on the realty agency. It makes no difference to me what, if any, they relayed during their purchasing transaction...it had nothing to do with us. Dumbass did the damage, held the chain saw & did the dirty deeds Settling with offering us his land & good riddance as a jerk neighbor would be great, as a start... but the amount of damages & losses we have doesn't come close to the value of his land !

Since this is just unfolding I'm doing as much homework as I can, to hold down costs of the eminent attorney retainment ! I did find out he owns a nearly $200,000 lakefront vacation home within 4 miles from this newly aquired piece adjacent to ours, just to build a boat 'garage' on. Our's was/ is, the sole purpose to build our permanent primary residence, hoping to relocate to next spring. Obviously, there is now abit of concern about the "neighbors" This piece is deeded in his & his wife, plus his brother in law & his wife's names. Both couples are non residents of this state. He's owned the lakefront home since '99. It's a very LOVELY place, by the way I have the addresses of both their out of state residences & will check the public records of each, to see their value, etc. I figure it'll give me a better idea of what kind of lucrative fighting $ power they have, to fend this off indefinitely, yadayada ! I'm definitely not going away or giving in, regardless

That's exactly how he came across when I spoke to him before we visually saw the extent of his actions by his saying: "... we just want to all get along & we won't stop you from clearing your land..." As if to say we wanted it, we took it, let it go If he doesn't settle to our liking...we're taking it to the full extent. If that's to be the case, hopefully a judge will see it this way, as well, & set an example for any future thoughts to do this again !

In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- you are one of the posters from the women's forum and your responses to this post are just the lack of logic that makes me proud i was banned from the "women's posts" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tsk tsk tsk.... and here you are posting ... on date night.... Whats a girl to think BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA --------------------------------------------------------- was thinking that very thing myself & wondering why all the uncalled for insults coming from "PH*****PH***" ???

Law enforcement who's filing complaint & pursuing charges & prosecution, passed on to me he intends to go 'observe' what exact damages he did create per new survey posts, today. No doubt he has already contacted an attorney for the what if's, he's possibly looking at. With just a rough minimal estimate of our losses for a number of grievances, we're seeing close to $50,000 in actual & other damages. The area forest ranger & DNR have the expertice to determine actual value of trees lost & loss to wild life habitat conditions due to adjoinment to US Forestry land & ATV trails. We may be willing to settle for 1/2, just to keep from a long dragged out process & costly out of pocket expenses, to us as well...just to get on with our plans & build! It's probably unlikely he, nor the other 3 Deeded owners will resolve to any amount close to that & will take their chances with the judge. Tomorrow I'm scheduling an attorney consult. In the mean time, the other enforcement agencies ( DNR, & U.S. Forestry Dept) are now involved to help ascertain actual damages, losses & violations per their departments & Federal & State Codes. I doubt they will resolve to anything remotely close & will take chances with the judge. If it were me, I'd choose to settle 1st, but then again... if it were me, it'd never had occured I'm so dumb founded as to how this sort of thing could possibly go on, or to how dumb f*@#s think it'd go without consequences Thanks to all for your positive comments & opinions for remedy...it does help w/ the anger

I think it would be nice to see a "Junior Rigger" or maybe call it just plain "Rigger" that's a step below a Senior Rigger. Main packs and simple parts replacement only. No reserves or sewing. ________________________________________________ Totally agree with you ! At one time I thought about getting my riggers ticket, but I no longer have any desire to reserve pack. I'll let hubby continue to do that However, I highly feel tandem & student packers MUST be trained thoroughly & held to some standards of certification req's...seen too many ignorant pack jobs/ outcomes because of hasty, unknowledgable "just close & get it off the floor" packing ! So how's it going Joe...long time no see

I would support such a change applied to owner-jumped mains. I figure an owner is smart enough to appreciate the risks involved in having a stranger pack his rig. I'm not so sure about student or tandem equipment, though. Should equipment "for hire" require a higher standard of care? Mark --------------------------------------------------------- Absolutely ! I've been packing as Lead Staff Packer ( tandem, student rigs) for 5 years. I can't tell you what I've observed coming from the " just taught because we are short tandem packers & have a big tandem day lined up"... & the issues coming from that. I strongly feel all "for hire" packers of tandem & student rigs, should have to take a course, test out & prove they can see, handle & know what every rig packed is all about. Too many guess, rather than: " when in doubt, pull it out...ask & repack " It's not to !

I received a call this am., from one of the sheriff's deputys that responded yesterday. Contact was made with the @$$ bite that did all the damage, informing him ( them) our proerty is posted in multiple places " No Trespassing" & the entire lot has been legally marked & roped off. Any further invasion on to the land &/or removing or relocating surveyed posts are criminal & will be arrested immediately. Further processing of incident reports, photos & other evidence taken will be turned over to the DA. w/ in the week. He ( they) were advised to seek remedy w/ us before charges were filed, but evidently he's balking & resisting resolution. Also, the area US. Forestry Rangers Station & DNR Station is located 4 miles away. We were told they & county deputys will be monitoring & patroling frequently, since we live so far away & can't ! It would appear this will continue to grow into an expensive, dragged out big deal Thanks & BlueSkies to you all for comments, advice & input ... SKYDIVERS ROCK

Happy Birthday Jan...wishing you a great day & only BlueSkies days to come

As far as letting McNasty buy it, we don't know what to do at this point ! We put every penny we had into the purchase, fees & signed a $20,000 contract to have the septic/sewer & foundation in, & put a required down payment of $ 10,000 down. The soil test, land permit, driveway permit, building permit & already paid excavator has already cost us @ $4000. We were thinking "obtaining" Nasty McA$$ Holes parcel, would be a start to a resolve, but replacing the trees is impossible. He ( they, 4 Titled owners on their Deed), do appear to have $. He owns lakefront property @ 4 miles away. After looking up the records at the County Court House, Fair Market value for that property: $198,000. Both couples are out of staters..MN., & SD. & planned intended use for our property they attempted to adopt plus the one they bought next to us: a garage for their boat At 1st, the Sheriff's Deputys told us upon arrival...this would probably be handled as a civil matter. From the front at the road, it was not visible to the degree of damage, as they saved us the front 220'x 200' of trees, from our original 220'x 490'. That was until we took them for a walk & they observed the 16 survey posts, flagged in pink & stacks & stacks of freshly cut logs logs, downed trees, totally cleared land & debris throughout. We also showed them the dated pictures we'd taken each time we were there, showing the condition of the land at the time we bought it a month ago, & the dramatic changes taking place each week since. Who knows how long any justice or settlement will take. This was our piece of heaven...before too old to enjoy... 55 in a week, & w/ cancer diagnosis < 1 yr.ago. It 's intent was for a few years peace & enjoyment in my favorite envirnonment, then for my husband, then promised to my son & ultimately my grandson as:" Nonny & Brad's Cabin" He's already wood burned us our the shingle to hang, there ! This isn't a case of time is money. Time is everything... I never realized how the loss of trees could generate so many tears... 50/50 anger & disgust ! I DO NOT COMPREHEND SOME PEOPLE, THESE DAYS

I slept like a LOG ... whoops sorry (Hope you get your property issue sorted really soon) ----------------------------------------------------------- Glad you did ... Property issue...bad, bad, bad ! We went up today to see just how bad. It was worse then we could've imagined. The dumb a$$, a$$ hole actually took out more than 1/2 the entire 2 acres, completely cleared. Fortunately the re-survey w/ postings throughout, was done this a.m, before we got there & gave clear evidence of the wrongdoing ! We had the County Sheriff's Dept. come out & take a look. They were there 3 hours gathering photos, videotaped both properties & measured & counted trunks & limb girths & dimensions... one deputy saying it was the worst case like this, seen in his 17 years on the department. It is estimated well over 200 fully grown & healthy trees ranging 20' -50' high were taken down Also, too many new growth stubs, to even count. They are recommending multiple felony charges due to guess'itmated costs of just the property damage & loss' alone . The US. Forestry Dept. & DNR will also be involved because some of the trees 'harvested' were downed & fell across State ATV trails & natural wild life habitat...& just left We're just sick about it !!! It made for a very long & exhausting 1000+ mile round trip drive, today ... as far as getting it worked out real soon...not thinking so I do appreciate your thoughtful comment, though!

cool, i can't sleep either... because of work xD ------------------------------------------------------- ditto, it's been months since a good... all night sleep

Since I can't do much till Friday, when we are able to go there to get a better idea of how much more cutting or our trees & tagging our property has occured, but sit on my hands & refrain from calling the a** holes that did this ( I don't need harassment brought down on me, as I can get very verbally aggressive )... I did contact the DNR substation 3 miles down the road. They are going to check into it, as well, or so they say... as I'm growing more & more cynical of any entity or system being on the up & up... Based on the State ATV trails, patroled & under DNR jurisdiction, abutting our back lot line & State & Fed. Forestry Dept., they may have violated criminal Forestry Dept. Reg's. Though it is privately owned, any trees per the area cut without owners permission, may be a criminal offense. Also, I did research WI. Stats. Since we have already voiced & established concern of "aggravated possession" to many authoritive figures, when we initially observed the intrusion & cutting of our trees, & by physically establishing the log boundary markers & roping off our area, based on the plat & surveyed posts, it gave reasonable notice to anyone/ everyone, there was at a minimum...a potential discrepency in ownership rights, trespassing & incursion. If they did begin to build, or have built a structure on any portion of our legal description of our land..encroachment violations, as well. Even if this trespass & destruction was not done with intentional malice, they were bound to take reasonable precautions before making any physical changes. They have appeared to have violated State laws. Proof is not an issue, as by speaking directly with one of the owner's who admittedly stated, they are the one's who cleared & cut prior & since, & by admission of "removing the markers & by eyeballing & walking off their land width in determining the clearing they did do..." Therefore, we do have a claim for damages, but the kicker.... To bring cause of action against them, it has to be done in the jurisdiction of primary residency of both Parties, since neither Party has a habitable dwelling established on the land(s). We live on the other side of the State of WI. The jerk owners are brother in laws; 1 living in MN., 1 in SD. The other issues that was presented to me by a real estate atty consult & is foreseeable, if they Quit Claim the Title of Warranty of Ownership before action is bought against them, we are screwed. Also, if the Realtor who's daughter owned the land at the time of the sale is liable for any misappropriation & knowledge of encroachment & is causable, we could bring action against him/her. Unfortunately, as pointed out to me in a pm by one thread poster, be aware of the good ol' boys syndrome...the Realtor is also the County Appraiser & Township Council President Our dream of a little cabin in the woods & getting away from the jerks of society has quickly become a nightmare Thanks to you & all that have taken the time to comment. It is appreciated all the input & feed back! You wouldn't happen to be available, would you ? ~ You all have yourselves a BlueSkies & Safe landings kind of day 'Gypsie ~