lancefrazier

you are an idiot, too. and jumpdude is a retard. and popsjumper better be careful with the ball bat, feeble old man. will this thread get locked as well, billvon? blah blah blah... well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

you are an idiot, too. and jumpdude is a retard. and andy better be careful with the ball bat, feeble old man. will this thread get locked as well, billvon? blah blah blah... well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

where did you receive your training in dog/chicken enjoyment recognition? what parameters would indicate distress in a chicken's demeanor? so, the BIRD with a cranial capacity of a peanut was terrified by freefall, while the terrestrial, intelligent canine dug it? spare me... well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

now, now, hallux, skydive nashville still operates. just without a plane, uspa group membership, staff or students. let's keep it fair. skydive hendersonville, however, is struggling. http://skydivehendersonville.org/ Well, there ya go again crying about a USPA GM Membership????? WTF, why are you soo damn worried about a USPA Membership? There's still no law that says that a skydiver or a DZ has to be a member of a club.[/reply right you are. however, the uspa, for all it's flaws and folly, is no "club". it is a fairly effective professional organization intent on providing guidelines for us as skydivers to follow so we can maintain self regulation. self regulation is a state of bliss compared to the mess skydiving would be in if it were regulated by a bunch of laws. a bunch of laws would be the stuff you guys were ignoring when that beater cesna went down. i understand you finally renewed your individual membership, well done. well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

why don't you red eye it to come jump with me, ya ape? well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

now, now, hallux, skydive nashville still operates. just without a plane, uspa group membership, staff or students. let's keep it fair. skydive hendersonville, however, is struggling. http://skydivehendersonville.org/ well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

Finally, Something we can all agree on!! the "we" is broadly inclusive, jello... well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

Katie, I'll stand tall next to what I have done here. It is afterall hating a concept not people. Let me ask you something since you insist on poking me. Are you going to teach your children that the Skyride way is the way to treat people? Do you want Ben and Cary to be role models to your kids? I'll ask this question to all of you. Are you going to teach your kids that the end justifies the means? That is a quote from Cary. Are you going to teach them that it is ok to take money from people that you didn't earn? That if you can get someones money by any means that you earned it? If you answer yes to any of these questions you sicken me. chris, the melodrama of your post sickens me. we've already unpacked the ridiculous notion of the whole moral foundation of humanity being encapsulated in the skyride business model in another thread. spare me. well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

Get your facts straight lady, No logo was used in any advertising, nor was the Humane Society's name. You should read their letter of rejection, then you'll have a clue. For once, he's right, AFAIK. I reviewed the copies of the advertisements that I have, and none of them included the Humane Society's name or logo. I may have not seen all of them though. We'll just have to accept that the boogie was a joke done in extremely poor taste with no intentions of donating any proceeds until called out on it. If you guys want to survive and keep your DZ open, do yourselves a favor and rename the boogie to something more politically correct. You might need a permit to hold a fundraiser if what I read earlier is correct, and you will need permission from the beneficiary. I can see how last year's boogie was hastily done and poorly planned. However, the attitudes you all have displayed since leaves much to be desired. I think we're about ready to close this discussion out and re-focus back on Skyride in the other thread. billy, you advising someone to assume a more politically correct position is, umm, strange. are you feeling ok? people, you are sensationalizing the most poorly conceived, spur of the moment, ridiculous non event in modern skydiving history! long live cat aids! well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

a "scam", by definition, requires a victim. who suffered? the poor souls in the attached photos? we had 25 fun jumpers, 20 or so tandem students and 10 staff members that had a wonderful time. the mike paiser space laser appreciation boogie on april 25/26, 2008 will be even more tastless, insensitive and awesome. the recurring assertion on your part that we are somehow lying to/scamming/or providing a disservice to our fun jumpers and students cannot be substantiated, period. sorry jeff, but a real dz has opened in "your" market. modern equipment, qualified instructors, well maintained safe aircraft and esprit will outweigh your lies, anonymous tips, muckraking and dumbassery. from the ntsb report of the plane crash that your funjmpers and students nearly suffered: "The pilot owned and operated the airplane since he purchased it in 2003. The airplane had not received an annual or 100-hour inspection subsequent to the pilot purchasing it. In addition, the pilot did not hold an airframe or powerplant certificate; however, he performed all of the maintenance on his airplane." that is a scam, pal. thank goodness it was not a tragedy. at every turn you are a disgrace to this sport. offering a prospective aff student advice like this: "Why pay $150 up to $250+ for a jump when you can do the Static Line First Jump Training course for $195 which includes your first jump, then the Static Line jumps for $65, then, when you come off the Static Line, the price drops to $45, then when you come off Student Status, the price is $23? Why pay an average of $200+ per jump when you can get 2 to 4 jumps for the price of 1 AFF jump. You may notice that the other user here who is advertising for a certain DZ is attempting to dazzle you with some really killer prices and packages. Then you will notice that he goes on to mention that you will have to pay $150 for any jumps you "Need to repeat". Hence, "Failed" a jump?? How can you fail a jump? You jumped, You landed, You lived, You passed! The reason the AFF DZ's mention that is because there is a high percent chance that you will have to "Repeat" (?) a jump or two. They do that so they can get you back for another jump or two. But They will never admit that. The most that should happen if you missed something on a jump is that it should be logged in your logbook and attention would be given to that area on the next jump or before your "A" License check dive. And if an Instructor says you can't log a jump for one reason or another, they are lying. YOU JUMPED! YOU CAN LOG IT! Even if you didn't get a passing score. Also, here's a couple of really good references that will help you to make an educated decision about where to jump. http://funjumper.com/skyride/ and http://www.1800skyrideripoff.com. After reviewing those two references as well as the suggestion that the other user earlier in this thread offered you, you will see that the user that is offering you all those dazzling prices and packages works for and is advertising for the company which is the same one you asked about at first in this thread, is the company that all that evidence is warning you not to do business with." is not helpful to him or the sport. (btw, kermie is doing his level 4 aff at asc as soon as the weather breaks.) I'm amazed that cspence, andy, billy vance and the others tolerate your presence in their camp. chris has done great things for the sport from videographer to boogie organizer, andy is a professional instructor who takes great pride in teaching people how to skydive. billy has a list of accomplishments as long as my arm. they have a rational postion to boot. what are you bringing to the game, joe dirt? Divert attention so the issue will go away? are you fucking kidding? the cat aids boogie will become an institution! have you seen these sweet t-shirts? thanks for the advertising. all this publicity and controversy over a silly name for a weekend of jumping and fun has provided much promise for the next cat aids boogie! NEWSFLASH AST is owned by cary quattrocchi, who also owns asc and skyride! gasp, who would have guessed? unfortunately for your argument, there is no skyride party line. there is no modus operandi. we're just a bunch of retards livin it up and having fun. we had fun. you should to, sometime. "Look back through the threads, you will NEVER see a post from me that slams someone's skydiving abilities, equipment and not even their currency." because you are in no position to, jeff. we are! well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

"Apathy is not neutral. It can be, but it's not "on purpose." right you are, sir! neutral means finding yourself midway between extremes. think ph balance. apathy implies not even being involved. apathy, breaks down to "without emotion",... modern usage tends to bend the prefix "a" to a meaning more akin to "contra". one who is apolitical is without politics, while atheism has been appropriated to mean refuting religion, or even god, it really means simple without religion. most skydivers are in fact apathetic to skyride, and the allegations made against it. only some have made it into a moral campaign, a fixation so strong it tends to even replaces skydiving as a passion... well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

I noticed that also, most young skydivers seem to be little wormy dudes. Must be the beer and ramen noodel diet. beer AND ramen? that would be a feast. it's either or for me... well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

i'm 6'4", 275lb. my rig was sized for someone considerably smaller. it was a good deal, and new leg and chest straps from mike g. and it's perfect in my eyes. i spent ten years hanging in a tree climbing rig. they weren't custom fitted. it's not really important to me in a skyjumpin' rig. chances are that the gear you jumped as a student was made for someone smaller anyway. don't be afraid of good enough as far as size, it it's a good deal price/quality wise. have fun! well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

well said! "People who choose to oppose Skyride can put their focus on that. Expecting anyone who opposes and fights anything must also oppose everything "evil" is not practical nor even possible as their efforts would be too spread out." -inversely, those who don't choose to fight the things others choose to fight cannot be deemed complicit, or accused of contributing to the problem. unfortunately the adage "you are part of the solution, or part of the problem" doesn't bear out in real life. people aren't compelled to be either. "As for drugs, many people think they should be legalized and may not have a problem with drug trafficking, regardless of legality." -that's crazy talk "I've gone and hung out at ASC and had a great time. I have many friends that choose to jump there. However, since I oppose their parent companies business practices I choose not to contribute monetarily by jumping there. That's what I chose to do. What other do is not my concern." -entirely too sensible! cheers, bolas! well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

my apologies, could you clarify for me? well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

i remember mark. when i made my first post on this forum, he was really loud about this whole issue. something happened, mark's gone real quiet. any idea what it was? well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

I'm not sure what companies you're speaking of, but I'll guess Wal-Mart is somewhere in there. I personally don't shop at Wal Mart, but I'll be honest, it's not because of their international wrong-doing. It's because their stuff is junk, and the stuff they have that isn't junk you can get some place else. Back to the topic. Lets say I do shop at Wal mart, and in turn I support everything they do wrong. Then I come online, and chastise you for working at a Skyride DZ (which I'm not even sure you do). Am I a hypocrite because of that? I can see arguments for answering 'no', but I'll suspend them, and say sure, I am a hypocrite. How does that justify you working for a company you know to be involved in dishonest and misleading business practices, and that is clearly taking advantage of a great deal of DZs in this very small industry we're involved in? How does anythng I do justify your affiliation? How does anything anyone does justify your affiliation? How do you justify your affilitation? dave, the point is we don't feel compelled to justify ourselves. we don't feel like we are doing anything wrong by working here. NO MORAL COMPULSION. ray kroc (founder of mcdonalds), decimated the the family run burger joint nationwide. he bought the "speedy service system" and the golden arches from a couple brothers named mcdonalds. by his own admission, his most satisfying moment was opening a Mcdonalds across the street from their joint a few years later, putting them out of business. mcdonalds is a freakin' american hallmark. why don't you run down to the one on your local street corner and call their employees out... and pick me up a two cheeseburger combo, you can fax it to me.... well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

My guess is: I just work and jump here. I have nothing to do with Skyride business practices. BUT I'm more than willing to take the money they earn from those practices. Lance, some of you guys over there are good people...some are not. As far as the Skyride jumpers are concerned, you guys aren't blind. You guys aren't totally in the dark about what's going on. All some of us are saying is, how can you justify participating and supporting Skyride by working for them? Your answer seems to be: Other people/companies do it so it's OK if I work for people/companies that do it. I just don't understand that mentality. On top of that, don't you see that Skyride is doing major damage to the skydiving industry? Do you think that those who get ripped off are telling their friends what a wonderful industry skydiving is? Do you think those who read and see the negative exposure we are getting from the print and broadcast media are thinking that this is only one business out of hundreds? Something to think about. One other thing. let's both refrain from posting dumbass, snide comments back and forth. If we can't have a discussion without resorting to that shit, save it, stow it and let it pass. I will even if you won't. Thank you. Just so you know....I would love to see ASC as an independent DZ. You guys could have all the fun you wanted and not be contributors to the Skyride business practices. I would even come over and jump with you guys periodically. (OK, so that might not be so deirable on your part but I would offer, at least.) What we hate is hypocricy. Others get on here and try to tear us apart for working for an "evil" company yet they are willing to go give their hard earned money to companys that have an international track record of abuses. I cant speak for others but that is my mentality. you just earned second prize, a hop and pop. well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

My guess is: I just work and jump here. I have nothing to do with Skyride business practices. BUT I'm more than willing to take the money they earn from those practices. Lance, some of you guys over there are good people...some are not. As far as the Skyride jumpers are concerned, you guys aren't blind. You guys aren't totally in the dark about what's going on. All some of us are saying is, how can you justify participating and supporting Skyride by working for them? Your answer seems to be: Other people/companies do it so it's OK if I work for people/companies that do it. I just don't understand that mentality. On top of that, don't you see that Skyride is doing major damage to the skydiving industry? Do you think that those who get ripped off are telling their friends what a wonderful industry skydiving is? Do you think those who read and see the negative exposure we are getting from the print and broadcast media are thinking that this is only one business out of hundreds? Something to think about. One other thing. let's both refrain from posting dumbass, snide comments back and forth. If we can't have a discussion without resorting to that shit, save it, stow it and let it pass. I will even if you won't. Thank you. Just so you know....I would love to see ASC as an independent DZ. You guys could have all the fun you wanted and not be contributors to the Skyride business practices. I would even come over and jump with you guys periodically. (OK, so that might not be so deirable on your part but I would offer, at least.) andy, the question has been answered already. my point is that the most strident skyride haters are guilty of hypocrisy, because they take a moral high ground on this issue that they don't apply to other sectors of their life. i respect everyone having a cause. johndh1's signature "Boycott Aruba - No Natalee, No Justice, No Tourists' is a cause, shutting down a startlingly aggressive booking service is an agenda. can we agree that there is a difference? likening skyride to drug trafficking and slavery is ridiculous. inflicting some melodramatic moral imperative on skydivers is unreasonable. disagreeing with it and taking steps to that effect is sensible. asserting that "skyride jumpers"(there is no such thing, andy) are morally deficient, liars, and crooks for not being interested in what skyride does is pointless. you will be perpetually disapointed with the answer you will get from us regarding this question, "All some of us are saying is, how can you justify participating and supporting Skyride by working for them?" simply put my friend, we do not care! "Your answer seems to be: Other people/companies do it so it's OK if I work for people/companies that do it. " "I just don't understand that mentality. " - of course you can andy. all of us suppress our morals and ideals daily in order to be able to live in a society. your steak/chicken/pork chop last night was almost guaranteed to be the product of a packing facility staffed by immigrants who are underpaid, mistreated, and subjected to barbaric working conditions. how did it taste? it's called cognitive dissonance, it's a mechanism we all use to get by. like chris is not concerned with the origin of his underwear, wendy did not care about how the marbles got to elgin, and there is probably some issue that really important to me, that doesn't concern you. i take issue with a lot of things that go on at your dz. you'll never see me author a thread to that effect, much less indict you publicly for working/jumping there. you'll never see me jump to cary's defense, he doesn't need it. you will however get an earful from me when you and others attack me and my friends personally. " Lance, some of you guys over there are good people...some are not" the same is true for your bunch. i'm also weary of the saccharine, conciliatory tone this conveys. i don't need an occasional warm fuzzy from people who attack me, my friends and my dz. to me it seems like a feeble attempt at making sure we don't start dragging everyone elses laundry into this dumb ass forum. i spent most of the summer at the farm, you know that, i hang out there on a regular basis. jello and i never have this conversation in person. only here. why? because we have better things to talk about! "One other thing. let's both refrain from posting dumbass, snide comments back and forth. If we can't have a discussion without resorting to that shit, save it, stow it and let it pass. I will even if you won't. Thank you." calling retards retards pleases me. it pleases me as much as recognizing people's ability to make a logical argument free of personal attacks. good, thoughtful posts do show up in this thread. "Just so you know....I would love to see ASC as an independent DZ. You guys could have all the fun you wanted and not be contributors to the Skyride business practices. I would even come over and jump with you guys periodically. " we essentially are. asc jumpers jump at the farm and vice versa. feel free to come over anytime. andy, you and i have walked by each other a hundred times and never spoken. next time i see you, i'm shaking your hand. to summarize my position; if you hate skyride, congrats. campaign against it, picket, petition, set up a legal fund to fight it. however lend yourselves the legitimacy borne of rational thought. don't make us, your fellow jumpers out as wicked because we don't share your zealotry. everyone fights the battles they see fit, i'm about to go battle these dirty bathrooms. lance well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

see you fellas later. i'm going to bed... well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

so, skyride represents the devil to you, but walmart is is your shopping venue of choice? i bet you live in some shitty little town that walmart has dislodged all the local retailers from. that's voting with you wallet! john, put the bong down, broooooo. well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

More than you'll ever know Skippy. fairly cryptic, should i worry? well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

Yes, I'd estimate that those who are included in the percentage would drastically over-estimate that percentage to make themselves feel better about being part of the problem. They trained you well....deny, deny, deny. who trained me, andy? do you think there's a skyride indoc process or something. geez... well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

I will. And tomorrow I will shred Beaver Creek. Thanks for the Sweet Dreams. One day, you'll probably be saying to me around the fire, "I just didn't realize what all was going on?" and I'll say, "There, there - you were young and dumb..." Been there, done that. sure thing, john... well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo

dave, slaver is a word, it means what it sounds like. you make a logical, organized argument. well done. i don't begrudge you your position on drug trafficking, or skyride for that matter. lance well im not a skyride fan by any means, but this sport is and always has been rich in moraly questionable behavior. -parabuteo