Jewels

You Backstabbing trouble maker you SHHHHH!!! You'll ruin my nefarious plan if you give away all my secrets. TPM Sister #102

I would be up for helping out with something like that. If you can get information on how we can donate, please post it! Hospice care was invaluable when I lost my father. It takes a very special person to be able to handle the demands of that kind of working/volunteering environment. I'd be glad to support them. TPM Sister #102

By the way, I have tried to make clear and hope by now that everyone understands, my question was NOT a complaint about anything. League is *great*. We have learned a lot, had a lot of fun, made a lot of new friends and if it was not for league, I would not have tried the one lonely tandem I have to my name. I don't want my original question to lead to a discussion that paints an inaaccurate picture of things. Life is good at SVCO. Please don't misconstrue this discussion to mean anything else. Thanks, too, to those people who have read this thread and understood--I just had a question!

What's the one from Much Ado About Nothing, where he's talking about bestowing all of his tediousness on what's-his-name? (Yeah, that's a particularly helpful description, I know.) TPM Sister #102

I have one of both (good and bad): Sprint actually did something almost right for once and I went into the store and got information without feeling the need to assault anybody. (I consider that pretty good for a cell phone provider.) On the other hand, I bought a $20 stapler this morning and the guy at the register tried to sell me a $3.00 replacement program for my STAPLER, just in case anything goes wrong in the next two years. Could a stapler fail within two years? Yes. Would I keep my paperwork for two years on the off chance that I had to replace it??? No way, no how, nuh-uh. TPM Sister #102

But I would not tip him for that service Hear that, hooknswoop?! NO TIP FOR YOU!! TPM Sister #102

Cool! That's what I had in mind, back in the beginning . . . you know, when I thought that maybe three people would read the post at all and then maybe one of them would say something vague and non-responsive in return. I'm joking about that, obviously, but I do think there's some value in shaking the tree to see what falls out. I found out, for example, that there are a lot of different positions on this (more than I expected, anyway) and that people really feel strongly about it no matter WHAT position they're taking. I also found out that coffee, donuts and beer are good tips, although not necessarily *together*. Oh--and I found out that before I start my next thread, I really should buy that helmet from hooknswoop. . . . TPM Sister #102

No worries!! You (you, Diablopilot, party of the first part) are correct when you say that you (the hypothetical "you") should be willing to perform your job responsibilities--all of them, all the time. No disagreement there! We (the global "we") all have parts of our professions that are more enjoyable and some that are less. It's still our job to do them. TPM Sister #102

heeheeehee you never know what's going to happen with a thread you start. And here I thought it was an innocent question! I mean, my life could always use some spicing up but next time I think I'll try it a different way.

JGarcia is right. Different flying requires different kinds of energy. If one muscle group starts getting weary, switch off and do something else for a couple of rotations. You can definitely stretch out your endurance that way. (Sit-flying arm exhaustion comes to mind. You'll know when it's time to switch to belly.) You might see if you can take a water bottle in with you, too. Staying hydrated helps. TPM Sister #102

Sorry, yes--there are always two in the tunnel for that. Nobody complained about head-down coaching being difficult. I just picked something to use as an example. Just because it's harder for me doesn't mean it's harder for them. TPM Sister #102

Hmmm. I appreciate your point, but I still think it's fair to acknowledge that it might be more demanding to coach head-down for multiple people in an hour than to work on some other kinds of skills. I also suspect it's more *physically* demanding to work with us than it is to work with some other groups. (Shoulder pain, anyone? ) I'm not advocating a slow-down in service or lesser service, even if we collectively ask for more in terms of instructing/coaching or if the instructor goes into it with the expectation that they WON'T get a tip in the end. The fact that we have a slot together for league just intensifies the requirements of the instructor for that time period and I acknowledge that. TPM Sister #102

I am REALLY glad that this was your experience at SVCO and I echo the sentiment whole-heartedly. There's not a prevailing negative attitude there AT ALL and I certainly hope I haven't suggested by my question or any of my follow-up comments that there is. I consider SVCO to be top-notch all the way around and I'm proud that they're my home tunnel. The tipping issue has to do with appreciation, NOT, as you point out, as though it is due. TPM Sister #102

I don't know that the reason I started the thread is all that helpful to the discussion, but please don't read anything significant into it. Here's the background: I have casually discussed the tipping question with friends (some who are in league, some who are not) from time to time. One of the points that came up in our conversations in the context of adult league was that for an instructor to take league for a full hour is a lot of work, especially on nights when there’s only one instructor covering it and particularly now that most of us are beginning to try more difficult things. There was some sense—whether or not correct—that some of the instructors might not look forward to taking league, primarily because it IS a hard hour. Some of us wanted to do something so that taking league might be a little less of a groaner for the instructors. *I* wanted to step it up in the tipping department but I also understand the other side for those who might feel that instruction is a basic part of what they’ve purchased and not necessarily something that should be compensated for “again.” There was no discussion among us about who wanted to tip and who didn’t; no one opted in or out of some sort of tipping plan; the idea was just to do it, but not with the notion that everyone had to chip in. I don't think that should change. We just wanted "tipping representation," if you will. I believe every instructor who has said that they don’t expect a tip. On the other hand, I think there’s a continuum between “it would really be nice” and actual expectation. I’m pretty sure that some instructors weigh in more heavily on one side of the continuum than the other, and that’s okay. That’s why I raised the question about how much of a tip is appropriate. I wanted to have some sense for what might make an instructor feel like their hour was worth the extra effort. There’s no ulterior motive. I'm not critical of people who don't want to tip. Tipping should never be about whether it's OWED or it isn't. Otherwise, it's a fee, not a tip. If anyone from league is eavesdropping, PLEASE feel free to correct me if I’m not presenting this accurately. I'm only able to present it the way I've perceived it; I'm not The Voice of League. TPM Sister #102

What this place needs is a bunch of appropriate .wav files. TPM Sister #102

No question! Anybody who comes in on their own time definitely deserves to be paid for doing so. TPM Sister #102

I have playoff tickets!!! and my team is going I'd definitely share YOU HAVE TICKETS?!! TPM Sister #102

Yum! I miss Atlanta from when I lived there during law school. I don't know about Harry and Sons, but I miss Six Feet Under and whatever that place is over by the Carter Center--something about Two Licks, I think. Great, now I'm homesick for Atlanta AND hungry! TPM Sister #102

Boo, you're no help! The kids want to see London, Paris and Barcelona (or Madrid) all in 2 weeks, so I'm trying to figure all this out. No time for both! That's how I shop, too--Get Both!! But, okay, if you really do get just one stop, go to Barcelona. Or make it three weeks and do both anyway! TPM Sister #102

I vote for BOTH. TPM Sister #102

Please take my reply in the respectful sense it is intended. I understand what you are saying and I agree that there are other costs that make the expense of tunnel time pale in comparison. It's my choice to fly in the first place. I am willing to tip--I WANT to tip--and I have no problem with the concept of that. On the other hand, please remember that the wind tunnel doesn't exclusively belong to the skydiver anymore. There is a HUGE base of business from those who do not skydive and those who never intend to skydive. I, for one, am somewhere in the middle with only my meager tandem and the lure of AFF--but no real jumps to show for it. WILL I become a skydiver? Maybe. But, the target market for most wind tunnels seems to be "anyone who will pay for tunnel time," as far as I can tell, which is substantiated by the number of tunnels that aren't located next to a dropzone as much as they are next to tourist venues. If there is a genuine interest in making bodyflight a "sport" of its own (or whatever label you would like to use), then it has to be financially accessible to do so. I am stretching the budget to spend as much as I do, and I agree that everyone has to know their financial limits. But a 20% increase in cost every time you go (on an already-substantial tab) means that the actual price to play is higher than it appears--and you don't improve at any helpful rate by dropping by just once a month. That's why I appreciate all of the comments that have said "something" is fine--even if it's a $5 or $10 gesture, or goodies, or something else that won't break the bank. TPM Sister #102

LOL--no worries; I hardly think you've had any offensive opinions that should make you a target! I just thank you for your input and appreciate getting your two cents (or your 20% ) as to what constitutes an appropriate tipping range! TPM Sister #102

I had no idea what I was doing when I started this thread. I'm wiser now . . . but I'm still not smart enough not to "go there" one more time! I'm still having trouble, even this many posts into the discussion, differentiating between attending, instructing and coaching. Maybe that's a difference that's obvious to you if you're an instructor. We don't have an "attendant" status at our tunnel, obviously, but it sounds to me like everyone agrees that being an instructor is more than being just an attendant. So, instructing has to do with safety, but if it's also being more than an attendant, I assume it also means it's something more than spotting. I tend to think of a very short list of safety-specific things: wear a helmet; don't stand up when you're learning to sit-fly; if you lose your balance when you're sit-flying, go to your back instead of your belly; if you cork and go too high, don't ball up, etc. So, short of the dos and don'ts, we're dangerously close to that whole "attendant" thing again. On the other hand, if I ask you to teach me head-down flying, I think that's coaching. "Teach me" ANYthing sounds like coaching. But then what do you do with the earlier example that teaching a flyer how to get off the net from their back is a matter of instruction for purposes of safety? To me as a flyer, that still looks like learning something new. I'm not thinking about whether I'm being taught that because it's safer for me to know. From my perspective, I just learned something new and, I can tell you for sure, it never once crossed my mind that I was being taught to do that for safety reasons. That was just the next thing I needed to learn to keep the progression going. So, the lines get blurred. I'm not trying to make this a semantics game and as a practical matter, I assume that most of what I want in the tunnel is coaching. It's just that the words "coaching" and "instructing," alone, don't give much away as to the distinction. I'm just curious. TPM Sister #102

SVCO is great. I have time at 6:30 on Friday and might drop in on Saturday morning. Maybe we'll run into each other!

Nice to have you here! I love all those tunnel hours you have. I'm very jealous, but it will be my pleasure to try and catch up! TPM Sister #102