maadmax

[ That is quite good.

"If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning." -C.S Lewis That is quite good.

Making the value system of the Creator, your value system.

One can use God as a psychological crutch if that's useful, but that's no reason to truly believe in such a magical being, nor all the crap that's unfortunately associated with religion. Knowledge conveys power and control. Knowledge of physics affords endless opportunity for innovation. Knowledge of God allows us to know and love ourselves as well as those around us.

. This thread is about agnosticism, not Christianity. Be a good sport and have a go at the atheists. Agnosticism is just a luke warm philosophy for those who have arrested their spiritual development.

I rejected god because I couldn't square the idea of a good and all-powerful deity with a world in which little kids get cancer, and where earthquakes, floods, and other natural disasters kill thousands of innocent people, and leave countless others injured, homeless, and suffering. There is simply way too much misery and pain in this world, misery and pain that has nothing to do with human choices or actions, for me to believe in god. Why is pain and suffering such a deal breaker for the existence of God? We live in a universe defined by physical processes that science is just now beginning to understand. The natural process is life and death amidst a changing environment. Even though we are in the world, God gives us a mindset that is not of the world.

I have no idea why He would be offended by a cross. It just seems a cross may not bring back the best of memories. Strange that I would agree with you on something, I have never had much use for the cross icon. Now if there was such a thing as an empty tomb icon, that would be something I could really appreciate. ...

QuoteI am curious how people (not only Christians) rationalise their beliefs? I rationalize/test my faith/understanding of spiritual reality by what works. If you know the Truth, then the Truth should set you free.

First there needs to be evidence that a "non physical" even exists. Just because humans imagine a spiritual world doesn't mean there really is a spiritual world. Science deals with everything around us. Science is a method for understanding what is around us and cutting through the illusions that are a part of the human brain. It's a way or method of testing everything so that we can better understand the world around us and filter between real and illusion. You can 10 people the same "scientific facts" but the metaphysical realities they create for themselves out of those facts will all be different. I am all for scientific discovery, but that is only a small part of the comprehensive picture of reality. ...

My life isn't any worse without the Bible or God. You will need evidence to back up this claim that with out the Bible their life would have somehow been worse. You will never know how nice it is inside until you come in, and then once there you will never want to leave.

Fables and fairy tales. Max. There's no truth in Genisis. You taking meaning from it is about you(and your indoctrination) and not about how "special" the bible is. Maybe so , but I for one never argue with success. The answers found in the Bible have enabled millions of people to live fulfilled and successful lives over the millennia that would have other wise wasted their existence.

Atheists are in desperate need of new material. The topic of this thread is ridiculousHere you go: http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/ You won't read it though...it'd make your kool-aid taste bad. Genesis along with the rest of the Bible has the answer to the only question that really matters. How to resolve the depravity of man and know the God of our creation.

Plenty of controlled studies showing that prayer is useless in healing the sick. PLACEBO works far better. For those who know God and pray utilizing the power of His Spirit, prayer has a 100% success rate in healing a broken spirit.

Easy answer. God promises to forgive your sins and heal your soul. Everything else is secondary and will be dealt with in the new heavens and new earth Makes perfect sense. (except for the following: god, sin, soul, heaven, and "new" earth) I agree, which is why I concentrate on the simple things I have some control over. Like loving God with all my heart and loving my neighbor as myself. I also am thankful for the arms I have, but know I can trust in the provisions of God should I loose one or both. ...

Zero. The number of amputees that God has cured is zero. You can try to finesse the question any way you like, the number of amputees that God has cured is still zero.Yup. Despite all those prayers, from all those seemingly deserving amputees, god hasn't healed a single one. Kinda makes a person wonder... Easy answer. God promises to forgive your sins and heal your soul. Everything else is secondary and will be dealt with in the new heavens and new earth.

If all that exists is a result of physical forces then God consciousness for millions of people must be a natural occurrence of the random nature of matter and energy. So what's your point? Point being, there are those who have blunted their metaphysical/spiritual senses, and claim reality is limited to physical observances. Physical forces have created sentient beings capable of observing its creative handiwork both on a physical and spiritual level. The spiritual mysteries of God must be embraced spiritually.

Sure it has. Science has done an excellent job of proving that you don't NEED God to produce a universe i.e. there are simple physical processes that can produce universes, galaxies, matter, energy, planets, atmospheres, organic chemistry and simple life. Since scientists have such a good handle on how the physical processes create the universe, why do they have such a problem with how all of those physical forces create faith and a personal relationship with God? If all that exists is a result of physical forces then God consciousness for millions of people must be a natural occurrence of the random nature of matter and energy.

Dwelling on the Truth or fiction about ancient historical events is interesting, but I see it as more of a hindrance to the real purpose of the Bible. God gave us His Word so that we might live life more abundantly. Loving my neighbor as myself is minimally impacted by God creating the world in 6 days or 4.5 billion years. ...

However, given the choice of being a blissful junkie or living a life of pain, I am cool with the pain. BSBD, Winsor We are in agreement on one point anyway, your embrace of self inflicted pain is obvious. Blindness does not nullify the reality. ...

Jesus never claimed His name would double as a magic incantation. He did promise that through Him we could know God and live life more abundantly. He did deliver on that promise.

Insightful article describing how science and religion shape our created realities. While just barely touching on spirituality which give both, science and religion, their meaning.

Who defines "self destructive evil nature?" The people who wrote your bible? I don't harm anyone. I don't steal. I don't do anything criminal. I don't do anything that would even go against your book. Yet, you claim everyone has a "self destructive evil nature." That is an awful large claim to make. Well Fly, if you are indeed as perfect as you say, then I bow before you. My own experiences and observations of human nature tell me otherwise.

Not the case at all. The argument is Christians claim that the laws in the bible are laws dictated by God and God alone. Much that is in the bible can be found in writings that predate the bible. Same goes for the Sermons on the Mound. Near everything in that portion of the text can be found in the Tao, which predates the bible by several thousand years. If Jesus did hold sermons on the mound and actually preached the words in the text, he might have very well been a follower of the Tao. He may had only been preaching from the Tao, and not from some type of God. Taoism was extremely popular throughout the region at the time of Jesus. It would appear that those who wrote the books in the bible took the teachings from others and claimed that their God gave them the words which to write. Given this, the bible teeters on plagiarism. The Bible like many other religious texts give guidance in defining moral issues. But the real purpose of the Bible is not to compile a moral code that none of us can follow anyway. It is to expose our self destructive evil nature and give us a means of escape through the Grace of God. ...

The real problem is I tried to believe. Tried to feel the holy spirit move inside me. I realized I was faking it out of fear of hell-fire and brimstone. So I stepped away. Why is it that when you don't believe in God you are somehow 'fallen' in nature, unrighteous? I live ethically and honestly. I live well aware of the consequences my living has and how far it resonates at times. If I am only guilty for being true to myself, to those around me and not living a lie, then so be it. I am not worried about my salvation. I applaud your action. If knowledge of God is not real or understood then you do more harm acting like it is than just stepping away from it. In the mean time God is reaching out to you. He will reveal Himself in a way you can understand if you do want to know Him. It will up to you to remove the stumbling blocks.

Can't wait!!! It will be nice to see the Boogie Days return to Monroe once again.