maadmax

Man, I've been trying for 40 years to do whatever I want without having any consequences. But life just doesn't seem to work that way for me, or for anyone else that I know. So if you're aware of someone who has figured out how to escape the consequences of life, please send them my way, because I would love to learn how to do that. It is easy as pie. "Deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow Him."

I would also like to point out that there is no evidence of anybody being saved from anything by the Bible. There is no evidence of any life after death or of any soul or spirit that lives on. So what you have is a lot of claims with no evidence. You are correct, "eternal salvation" is a hope. Salvation from a wasted life is a reality for me, here and now. Only God knows where I would have ended up without the guidance He gave me through His Word. Praise be to God for what He has enabled me to do with my life. ...

can assume that because it says its from "God" that it must be. You guys are very good at rationalizing and ignoring the inconsistencies in the Bible. What the Bible says is important, and the apparent contradictions need to be sorted out. But what It does is much more profound. Despite the nit picking by those who have blinded themselves, the Bible has given a way of hope and salvation to countless millions of people throughout the ages. Myself included.

I don't think you will find one person here who does not support your right to believe anything you want. You will find opposition when you want to control the lives of people based on your bronze age superstitions. As commonly seen with the seek and destroy method. Counter with misinformation since there is no comprehension of what point is even being refuted. First off, iron was the metal of choice during the axial age. God's love was the timeless message, that was and is the answer to the problems we face in our daily lives and the world. ...

Damn it, I do NOT want to inflict my belief on anyone! And I will post that over and over until people believe it! It is comically obvious that the goal here on SC is not in inflict belief but to seek and destroy anything that is not understood. Those who fail to grasp the meaning of life will be damned if they sit idly by and let anyone else present evidence outside the holy grail of contemporary scientific thought to the contrary. They ignore the gaping holes the scientific method will never solve. But instead present their gospel of meaningless and futility as the answer to mans aspirations.

Indeed, it's the non-believers who try to put that burden on them when, indeed, it's not necessary, not required nor even relevant. --------------------- Religious have no need to prove their beliefs with logic, and if it's purely personal and nothing more. Then they should refrain from arguing with Atheists who suggest God doesn't exist, it takes two to have a debate. ------------------------------------------------------------ Simple as that isn't it. What we're seeing here is vitriolic people failing to understand that. What we are seeing here is egoism at it's worst - "My belief is better than your belief. I'm right, you're wrong!" And it's most vitriolic from the non-believers. It's almost like they can't sleep at night until they sway someone to their way of thinking. ------------------------------------------------------- But then they shouldn't come into threads about the existence of God and try debate when all they have in their arsenal is "I believe it to be so, I have faith". ------------------------------------------------------------t non-believers wouldn't have anyone to bash! Seriously though, I'm with you on that sorta. There is no debate going on here. It's simply argument. It's rarely a good idea to argue with anyone about anything. ------------------------------------------------------- Except you've had a whole bunch of people try to make their God's existence seem more realistic by trying to cater to the scientific minded, albeit with flawed and incorrect knowledge of science. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ummmm....yes and no, as I read the posts. Yes, some have done just that and as we know, that just doesn't work. So, do you bash them because of the beliefs or do you bash them for the mis-use of science? That answer is obvious, right? You talk about their mis-use of science. And, OTOH, the non-believers have done the same. They have demonstrated that exact same flawed and incorrect knowledge of science by asking science to prove or disprove the existence of God - blatant mis-use of science. How can anyone reasonably ask science to do something it cannot do and then use that as support of his argument? Unbelievable....no puns intended. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again, pure unadulterated bullshit. Damn good post Andy. ...

Uh, that's exactly the point: he does know what is right, so he's being a hypocrite. emmm, that's my point. Why is this any different than all of the other laws that are passed and then broken by the lawmakers who passed them? Does that somehow invalidate what was right about the original law? Or maybe this case is special because it has something to do with gays?

Just because someone chooses to engage in sinful behavior doesn't mean they don't know what is right. If the sinful activity of law makers is used to justify what laws they pass, it wouldn't take long for this country to completely collapse. ...

Those are the ones who need to "prove that their God exists." Or, maybe they just need to relearn the humility love and compassion their God teaches.

If we didn't rely on science for answers and lived on mythology we would still be convinced the world was flat and we'd live a life based off ignorance and little advancements. If they want to sit back and live their life being religious that's fine. But then they shouldn't come into threads about the existence of God and try debate when all they have in their arsenal is "I believe it to be so, I have faith". Except you've had a whole bunch of people try to make their God's existence seem more realistic by trying to cater to the scientific minded, albeit with flawed and incorrect knowledge of science. Science obviously has its place in solving the mysteries of the physical world. But that is only a part of our reality. We are also spiritual beings with a strong desire to know the truth, what ever it may be. One of the hallmarks of evil is laziness. To many people make up their own truths instead of working to find out what is really True. My proof is the dynamic power of God's Word as revealed in the Bible and its effect on my life. Similar experiences is why so many people believe what it says. Life on this planet is proof that physics can create and sustain metaphysical intelligence. What is your proof that intelligence is not an intergral part of the universal physical forces that control the universe/multiverse? But yet you get on these forums and say there is none. ...

Indeed, but the burden of proof is on those who think one exists in the absence of any evidence. Nope, those who love God have no burden to prove anything. If you can't see God for yourself nothing we say will convince you. No worries, everything will be revealed soon enough.

Well, again science can address those laws of physics, but not their "meaning and purpose". The "god" you reference here has been referred to as a "knob-turning God" who set rules of the game (the "laws of physics") so that everything else (formation of galaxies, stars, planets, life, evolution of self-awareness) would necessarily follow without the need for further intervention. I don't think this is what most people conceive when they think of "God". Rather, they believe in a personal, interventionist God who sent His Son to die for our sins (in the particular case of Christians), and who decides everything that happens to us, good or bad. That's quite a different sort of a deity. Any chance you'll be at the DZ on Sunday? It'd be great to catch up with you. Don Yes, that is the God I know. ...

The mysteries of science are for us to discover. Science has yet to explain the meaning of life. That's something science will never be able to answer, as science can only consider phenomena that can be observed and measured in a replicable manner. The "meaning of life" is inherently a value judgment that can't be measured or tested against a null hypothesis. Maybe we can agree to disagree about that. A snowflake can be a beautiful, intricate structure, but it is assembled by very simple rules of ion pairing and hydrogen bonding as water molecules dock into the growing crystal. No divine guidance is necessary. For me, that doesn't lessen the beauty of the snowflake. Don Yes, snowflakes are amazing like the rest of the universe that follows the laws of physics. The perfection and consistency I am referring to is the immutable, omnipresent, omnipotent laws of physics and properties of matter, To me that is what demands an analog of meaning and purpose. To rule out meaning and purpose because it is difficult for some to conceive, is no different from those who associate some mysterious phenomenon to a god because no explanation has been found. ...

Basically, the system is structured so as to allow evolution to happen. If someone was to argue that 1) the system as it exists was "designed" by God", and 2) the system is incapable of allowing evolution, then I submit it is that person who is suffering from an "inflated ego", imposing constrains on "God" that are not at all evident from the way the system was "designed" and all the evidence from biology and paleontology. Anyway the whole argument is moot for most people. Evolution is a statistical effect (resulting from the combination of: mutate/recombine genomes, select, reproduce, repeat ad infinitum), it's no more "personal" than entropy, or Adam Smith's "invisible hand". That evolution is a biological fact says nothing about the existence or otherwise of "God", it only demonstrates that Genesis (or any other creation myth of any religion) cannot be literally true, and must be taken as allegory. See all of the good discussions you miss when you don't come out to the DZ. I always thought the take home message behind Genesis was that God created the universe while not being very specific on how He did it. The Bibles is a great resource for understanding the spiritual complexities of life. The mysteries of science are for us to discover. Science has yet to explain the meaning of life. The sheer perfection and consistency of science only makes sense to me if it has a meaningful, purposeful, counterpart. ...

Damn, I was having that dream for 15 years after graduating from Vet School. I wonder what it meant.

Cluelessness score = 10 Now I get why atheists so confuse me. They are looking for people to prove to them that Leprechauns exist. That responsibility rests with The King of the Leprechauns alone. I have accepted the over whelming proof Leprechauns have given me. THEY ARE REAL!! Let me play, let me play. INTELLECTUAL INTELLIGENT ANSWER SCORE = 0 300LB INTELLECTUAL GIANT SCORE = 0 MOST IMPRESSED BY THEIR OWN INTELLECT SCORE = 10 GRASP OF REALITY SCORE = 0 COMPREHENSION OF LIFE'S MEANING SCORE = 0 Sorry, the sum of your combined scores does not make a passing grade. Please try again later. ...

Not in the least, the burden of proof always rest with the person making the claim. If I claim there is an invisable man under my bed, and if you disagree, do you bare the burden to provide the proof to prove me wrong? Unless I provide to you convincing evidence, you can reject my claim outright. Now I get why atheists are so confused. You are looking for people to prove to you that God exists. That responsibility rests with God alone. I have accepted the over whelming proof God has given me. HE IS REAL!!!

I am not the kind of douchebag who would consider giving you one That's my point...I think you would, if you had more muscle than brains. You guys abuse your intellect in the same way a bully abuses his strength. I know some like to think they are intellectual, but I am still waiting for an intelligent counter argument. All I hear is , dats tupid, your tupid, you don't even gots a clue, God is not real because people in Africa suffer, all you got to say is the dumbest tings I ever hear. God can't exist because He doesn't meet my expectations. and on and on and on. If there is anybody among the intellectually gifted with the answers to life's mysteries I am all ears. ...

And what blows their mind even more is that our God is personal. +1

And the "intelligent mind" to which you refer requires orders of magnitude greater "irreducible complexity" than that which actually exists. Try again. Interesting, William of Ockham, was a theist. I doubt he would agree with the way you are interpreting his philosophy. ...

But leaving that aside... so what if there was an evolutionary advantage to religion? Has absolutely nothing to do with whether it's true. Agreed, but the one thing I have noticed about Truth, in any area, is that it remains after all of the chaos surrounding it has subsided. We are engineered to want the Truth. If there wasn't Truth in the concept of God, He would have died out long ago.

Well, fine - then call spiritual belief it what it is: pure faith. It is what it is, nothing more or less, and those who choose to be guided by it, choose so because that is their prerogative. And if that works for you, that's fine with me. But stop assigning it attributes it doesn't have, or using logical fallacies like reversing burdens of evidentiary proof. Because when you cross that line, it simply becomes intellectual dishonesty. Personally, that's really the only time it pushes my buttons enough to even participate in a discussion like this. Yes, the only way to access God is through faith. But once that threshold has been crossed, the spiritual riches God has in store for us make the leap of faith worth the risk. Proof is irrelevant. God is either real on an individual basis or He isn't. ...

Well if all of that is true, then atheists must be an evolutionary dead end. ...

Maybe, but I get an A+ in knowing the Truth and having the Truth set me free. And, I ain't got no burdens . ...

Because it's an easy cop out for lazy people. When posing the questions about what we are doing here, instead of saying something like this: "I don't know yet but if I study it using the scientific method maybe someday I will" The lazy say: "It's too complicated to understand so it must be some mythical being that is up there making it happen". Whaat? Our history speaks for its self. We are a species with an intense thirst for God. ...