masterrigger1

Sparky, I've got it but it seems that you don't! If you can not read from the TSO that the manufacturer Shall supply a Copy of the instructions to the user for continued airworthiness, then I don't know what to do for you! Here it is again- It is a written FAA procedure From TSO-C23d (2) The manufacturer must furnish to the user of the article one copy of the data and information specified in paragraphs c(l)(ii) and c(l)(v). This data and information is necessary for proper installation and use and for continued airworthiness of the product or article. “ Here is another place you are off track.. I never stated that there was a FAR XX.XXX . Sometimes in the FAR's two things make a ruling. I disagreed with Derek's statement that you only had to "understand the instructions" vs having them. It just so happens that 65.119 states that you can not deviate from procedures prescribed by the administrator (FAA) here it is again... From 65.119 (e) Pack, maintain, or alter a parachute in any manner that deviates from procedures approved by the Administrator or the manufacturer of the parachute; or (f) Exercise the privileges of his certificate and type rating unless he understands the current manufacturer's instructions for the operation involved and has— as to the quote about "barracks' lawyers.. I am quite tried of it all also, but I am also tried of mis-informing young riggers. This is a case that could poise very big problem. Suppose a young rigger reads and believes Derek's statement and also does not have the instructions. That same rigger later is packing a rig(that he thinks he understands the instructions to) with a 357 pilot chute and pulls the lower mess over the tophat and keeps the pilot chute from launching. The scenios are endless..... The FAR's are written so that 99.99 % of the population understands them. It seems that no matter how the FAR's are written, certain people will always try show that they are "smarter" by circumventing the rules, reading between the lines, challenging the FAR's,etc... . Just look at all the post they make. In this business one needs to use common sense and err on the conservative side. Using Chuck Smith's quote,"Just have the damned instructions readily available!!! " MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Sparky, I merely pointed out in the TSO requirements that the manufacturer shall supply the user with instructions and those instructions shall be used to continue the airworthiness of that parachute. That would be at the repacking of the parachute. What does this have to do with pack? From 65.119 (e) Pack, maintain, or alter a parachute in any manner that deviates from procedures approved by the Administrator or the manufacturer of the parachute; or (f) Exercise the privileges of his certificate and type rating unless he understands the current manufacturer's instructions for the operation involved and has— The part from the TSO goes along with both above but the part where you cannot deviate from the procedures pretty much sums it up. I will list it again.... From http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/00493AC675EDA12E86256DA500600EF7?OpenDocument (2) The manufacturer must furnish to the user of the article one copy of the data and information specified in paragraphs c(l)(ii) and c(l)(v). This data and information is necessary for proper installation and use and for continued airworthiness of the product or article. MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Derek, It is regulation to follow all of the FAR's and associated documents. Therefore, Following the TSO requirements is regulation. You remind me of the person or persons suing McDonalds because they did not placard the Chesseburgers as to being full of fat! Remember it is easier to be a smartass than be smart. So give it a break! MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

I guess not as I never said "it" was a FAR! The FAR's are very sparsley written as you well know. When further definition is required, the preamble to the final rule is used. And yes, the preamble is considered law or rules. From TSO-C23d (2) The manufacturer must furnish to the user of the article one copy of the data and information specified in paragraphs c(l)(ii) and c(l)(v). This data and information is necessary for proper installation and use and for continued airworthiness of the product or article. “ While TSO-C23d is not a FAR, it is a requirement for Approved parachutes. It clearly states that a manual be supplied to the user and that data is to be used for continued airworthiness. There are several other references within the Rules and Rulemaking if one would like to go through the trouble of finding them. Yes. I could! We could do it like last time. That was when we agreed via PM, that the fastest way to resolve the last issue, was to file a formal complaint with the FAA. When it came to fold, you changed your outlook and tried to make me look like a vilian. That issue is still to be resolved as there has not be a final ruling by your FSDO. I have not persued that issue since you changed your mind. If you change your mind again let me know! MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

By "it", do mean an FAR that says you must have, have open, and/or, have open to the correct page, the manual for the container and reserve when packing? I didn't see any FAR's in there with any of those requirements. The title of that document is, "Chapter 110 Inspect FAR Part 149 Parachute Loft" dated 8/13/93. Are you aware that FAR Part 149 no longer exists? If it isn't an FAR, then it isn't an FAR. Again, can you reference an FAR that supports your position? Derek Derek, I guess you can not read...again! Go back and re-read thmy last post really good. 149 is no longer, but the inspection part of the handbook is still used. If you stur around in the inspector's handbook you will find it. I simply do not have the time to educate you! I never said that you have to it open and to the correct page, but the average person would. MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

I must have missed one! Any way digging through this stuff is always amazing! http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/examiners_inspectors/8300/volume3/media/3_110_00.pdf One place I found it was in the Inspector's Manual for Observation in a parachute loft. This is the same format that also was used for Certified lofts. All though there are no longer any Certified lofts, this procedure is still used for inspections of just lofts and manufacturers. There are several more places if one really wants to look! MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Pete does do good work! But we probably do more relines a year than most. We do a ton of relines every year. Feel free to contact us. MEL Skyworks Parachute Service Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Do you mean this document?: http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf35/53725_web.pdf I couldn't find anything in it. Also, the pre-mable to a NPRM is not an FAR and if it isn't an FAR, then it isn't law. Derek No, it is not the Pre-amble that I am talking about. I am glad you went to law school Pre-ambles are law! They further define the rule. Each subpart has a pre-amble. A pre-amble is the subject matter and intent for which the rule is written. Call Don and get him to give it to you. MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Sure it is! Riggers pack approved parachutes don't they??!! The knowledge area is tested in regards to the manufacturer's instructions and their use. The written knowledge test shows that you know and understand the FAR's and their intent. (b) Pass a written test, with respect to parachutes in common use, on— (2) The manufacturer's instructions; No, it is not the PTS handbook. It is an Order Number provided to Inspectors and DPREs. I will have to get the # from the shop later today. The reference material is required by the examiner because the rigger applicant HAS to use them. It is in the pre-amble to the rule making. Have your local FSDO Show it to you. There is a reason you have to READ, speak, and understand the English langage to become a FAA certificated rigger!! Common sense prevails here! MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Again, yes they are required. First let us go to This.. § 65.115 Senior parachute rigger certificate: Experience, knowledge, and skill requirements. Except as provided in §65.117, an applicant for a senior parachute rigger certificate must— (a) Present evidence satisfactory to the Administrator that he has packed at least 20 parachutes of each type for which he seeks a rating, in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions and under the supervision of a certificated parachute rigger holding a rating for that type or a person holding an appropriate military rating; (b) Pass a written test, with respect to parachutes in common use, on— (1) Their construction, packing, and maintenance; (2) The manufacturer's instructions; The test questions (320 of them now) include 4 of which specifically point to having the instructions at hand. Also, in the FAA/DPRE handbook, Manufacturer's instructions are considered required equipment that is listed through out Part 65. MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Yes, you are required to have the instructions on hand. How can you understand them if you do not have them???? The Harness/Cointainer's instructions take presidance over the canopy manufacturer's instructions always. MEL FAA DPRE FSDO CAE-13 Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

*** Most of the manufacturers made them during the transition period of Type 8 to Type 17 risers. Bill Booth once stated that using the mini rings on the standard harness rings made the riser geometry out of spec. Just about anyone who makes risers could make some for you. MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

I probably have either meet you are jumped with you there. I lived in SLO town for 2-3 months in '92. September - December I believe. I actually am going back there in two weeks for a month. Did a couple of demos for Al Stevens. One was near the Santa Maria Airport at some community festival. Bill Norman was on the load. That was about 2 months before he had his incident and 4 months before Al went in. That place had the best sunsets ever!! Yep, good memories, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

The grommets today are cheaper made, even the SS ones. Because of that, you need to sand the forging/stamping cracks from the top of the grommet before starting the installation. I use 120 to 180 grit sand paper to do this. If you look really close, you can see the little cracks that are at the top on some of them. That is one reason why some split during installation and some do not. Blue ones, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Tom, You could if the Harness carried a FAA approval along with the chest mount and it's Canopy. What someone should do is put the chest rings on a existing manufactured base rig's harness. Then use a already FAA approved chest mount system and TSO the system. It is quite possible that the "new" Harness could be considered a major repair OR a remanufactured componet, thus a major short cut in the long TSO process.I would have to look into it to be sure. Short jumps, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Rob, The Rig(one approved harness, one approved container, and one approved Canopy along with the unappoved Canopy and container) must have an FAA TSO to jump from an airplane in the USA. Regardless of what other countries the rig has been certified; if it was built in the USA and is being jumped in the USA from an airplane, the rig must carry a USA TSO. Even if a German or other non-national was jumping it here! All of those rigs carry an offical USA TSO, not just the ones from their respective countries. To make a legal jump, the Harness would need to be FAA aproved along with thw Chest mount parachute and container. Hope that clears it up for everyone, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Sorry Sparky, But I will have to totally disagree with that. The type of line has a lot to do with the opening. The dacron will "grip" the slider grommets more than the Spectra line material. Size of the material has a lot to do with it also. MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Rob, I know that PISA did in fact make them also, but the ones that I found had a label that stated "made in England" as I recall. Also, there are still a few Swifts that had an AD complied with. That AD was put out because of poor flying and flaring. They had the wrong ribs installed in them. That info (along with the serial numbers that were affected)is in Pointers Manual. BS, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

You need to also check and see where it was manufactured! Some where manufactured in England and made their way back to the USA. These have NO TSO attached to them. I have found three in the last few years. BS, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Actually quite the opposite with today's canopies and 26 -28 inch risers. We also make risers to the users specifications. MEL Skyworks Parachute Service Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

You got that right! Those young'uns ought not to fuck with their elders. That's OK Chuck ... His canopy is due in to the shop tomorrow and we are going to "Pimp his Ride" and get it back to him on Wednesday in enough time to kick so butt.... ( we Hope) BS, MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Were Cypres loops around when Racers were TSO'd? Derek *** ummm.... No, but I think John added it to his technical sheet. I know for a fact it was added when we did the TSO for the racer Tandem!!! MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Kevin, Form 337 comes to mind, although no one ever uses the correct procedure. AC43-210 lays it out for ya! I just happen to go through a FAA course in OKC, OK last week regarding some of that material. http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa337.pdf Also look up the AC. MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Contact Don Kirlin @ Air USA and set him up with a ride in a L-39. Don resides in CO and the business is in Quincy, IL. 450 Kts of prue fun! MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

Sparky, You are right. I got to thinking about it. If you are doing a field modification or major repair to a certificated componet, you have to go through the FSDO anyway. You have to have written permission to do the work! MEL Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com