DSE

You're input was in email and unstructured, the online form fits into a structured process so that things don't get on the list incorrectly. That is the case here. I will remove you and if you decide you would like an entry please complete the form. We are equally stubborn with our rental forms now also, in the early days we accepted emails but it lead to some errors, so now it is all form based. My input was public, here on DZ.com, in this thread. Everyone can see my input. You didn't ask me to go to an online form, and if you were stubborn about it, you would have. You did tell me in private mail that you'd "really like to have me on your database." Of course you would; for SEO, it ties my name and Elsinore to your marketing effort. You get more benefit from it than anyone else. That's not how "independent" nor fair, nor community service works. There have been no private exchanges related to my info. If you insist on marketing a brand of suits on an "independent database" and do not allow for a coach to make commentary about his/her skills/school/unique teaching, whatever, then please remove me from your list. It's my mistake for believing what you'd said upthread.

please note the incident you refer to involves camera wings, which aren't part of a normal swooping regimen.

I did have a private chat with Omnia about the inaccuracies and concerns. If it's truly "independent," then advertising would be equal to all parties or none parties. Having "exclusively Tonysuits" beneath my "endorsement" isn't appropriate, and it is indicative of the marketing vehicle you're creating. The footer can easily be disabled for that page, and should be, IMO. No one "had" to fill in any blanks. I shared with you what I was open to sharing, and you chose to generate more information than I offered. The way this appears is exactly as feared by myself and others, but I went along with it due to your assurances, and will go along with it if you make the corrections. Otherwise, please remove me from your "not-independent" list used predominantly for marketing your services. IMO, this conversation needs to be public so that folks understand what you're doing in the background.

It still says "Exclusively Tonysuit" beneath the page (not truly independent, I guess) Information gathered (from DZ.com, i'm guessing) is not accurate; I gave the info I was willing to provide but someone filled in blanks for me without my knowledge. There is no "about me" in there, and if you're going to fill in the blanks and have a manufacturer listed, then it's only fair you allow for a paragraph of coach commentary. I'm hoping to see these errors and omissions alleviated pretty quickly.

All my rigs have em', whether used for AFF, fun jumps, or wingsuit jumps. I'd advise against a larger PC that often accompanies a wingsuit mod, you'll be changing PC's at some future point anyway. I wouldn't worry about the bridle length.

Tell that to the pilot that has to deal with the body and/or damage to the airplane after the newbie hits the tail... Me...I'll be late for the wedding. or: "Can you wait til me or one of the other coaches is available?" "If that's a rental, they're not allowed until you demonstrate you've had an FFC with someone we recognize as a qualified coach." "Talk to the school manager, he'll give you some options."

Just wait'll you see the new PCS-12 wingsuit being developed by a leading manufacturer. It'll make your meager 6" package look like a whopping 12" of snow! It also doubles as a rudder. The Penis Compensating Suit will give you a massive package, bad-ass big arch skillz, and even though your arms are bent way back and your head is up, you'll still a super cool kid. Buy two and you'll get the covered main and built-in reserve tray with special "unzip after malfuction" feature that everyone is begging for. You can buy/rent/borrow one sight unseen, no experience required. Order now, and you'll get the free zipper lubricant, handy how-to guide, and we'll even throw in pockets for weights (weights not included, see your local quarry or hamburger joint). Supplies limited, so don't wait!

Butters... how 'bout you give it up. It's clear you have a hard-on for large suits, you know you can't fly one, and we all know that you know. One day you'll realize that small suits are only for...... skilled WS flyers. Order yourself a P2 and get it over with.

Right. Some people think she's a drooling retard, when in fact she's simply average. Me? I don't want average sitting in the Oval Office. We ought to be aiming quite a bit higher. I beg to disagree. If she's average, then I'm a rocket scientist and you're about to win an NPP

Come on...fess up, you're running for the BOD aren't ya. You've obviously been studying the secret operations manual! So...we spend 100k a year in salaries and other expenses on "sport promotion" and now an additional set of funds are being taken to do the same. USPA has had several chances to get promotional content on computers and software from two of the largest software/computer companies in the world (for 2500.00) but couldn't "justify the expense." 2500.00 divided by 1M accesses=.0025 cents per impression. Figure the demo team and sport promotion might reach 1M people per year at large events and television. That works out to be more than a dime per impression. .002 vs .10, and the .10 competes with existing, contributing demo teams? I'm very confused.

These don't have waveoffs. I believe there are quite a few "instructors" that don't teach waveoff.

I've not done any WS jumps from a Navaho, but have done RW and ISP coaching from a Navaho. I can't see any reason why one would be worried about it, not if they know proper wingsuit exit processes. In a P2? As long as the arms stay shut down, I'd have no worries (but this is also dependent on jumper skill/heads-up ability). It's not terribly different from a King...I've got hundreds of WS jumps from a King.

I feel that there is no aircraft/wingsuit combination that should be restricted. I do believe that there are -people+big suits+certain aircraft that should be restricted until they have the skills that offers the pilot, aircraft, and DZO an assurance that they won't have a tailstrike.

fun how we're getting inquiries from all over the globe, and a couple BASE people asking if they can jump BASE gear from an aircraft. Word of advice to those flying an Apache; if you don't have your handles exposed, and can be pulled with the proper minimum forces, you won't be allowed to compete. The "I'll unzip my suit in case of a malfucktion" concept won't fly at this event.

With hundreds of students in virtually every language and age group imaginable, haven't yet had one forget to wave off. It's ingrained from the first demonstration of the jump. If we are to teach AFF Cat 3/Level 1 students to wave off, we can sure as hell teach experienced skydivers the necessity to waving off. Campos said it best.

Wingsuit coaches, at what altitude do you have your students deploy on FFC's and post-FFC coaching?

+1. Anyone who thinks teaching to wave off is not needed during a FFC shouldn't be teaching a FFC to anyone. It boggles my mind that this was even a question. I stand corrected though....there is such a thing as a dumb question. I have a feeling Butters found the same FFC video I was pointed to recently (series of them) where the student doesn't wave off, and when asked about it, the instructor allegedly said "Wave offs are not necessary for the first flight."

What "extreme leg wing pressurization" is found in student suits? Should suit size, pressurization play a role in whether a waveoff occurs? And...if one can't wave off in a carpet suit, one probably shouldn't be flying one, should they?

Absolutely. For many...an FFC with an instructor is the *only* instruction they'll ever get. Care should be taken that the student knows to at least do this minimum thing, same thing we teach in AFF. It's a safety valve for those around them.

I voted. How's yer leg?

I can't think of any. The odds of having gear stolen is very low. And the odds of being injured or killed are very low. So when you put those two together, the odds of being injured or killed on stolen equipment is even more unlikely. But it's bound to have happened somewhere along the way. And if it has, would anyone else have even known that the equipment used was stolen? Certainly the victim isn't going to admit it. And if others knew it, they probably would have done something earlier to get the gear back to the rightful owner. So even if someone is injured on stolen gear, it is unlikely once again that anyone will know about it that would report upon it. FWIW, in the current case at hand, the victim didn't know it was stolen until after the incident occurred.

Oh, no question. It would be awesome if everyone in the formation had suits that were perfectly tailored to their flying a vertical stack. When I was there, I wished I'd brought along my Xbird (I only brought my Sbird). It's similar to the problem I have when I travel and want to film FFCs - I often wish I'd brought my Mbird (but I usually don't because I don't want to go over the 50lb checked bag limit). I suppose one of the differences between us and RW is that our suits are a lot more expensive, so not everyone who is going to participate will have the luxury of getting the perfect suit for this event. I mean, a lot of folks only have one suit and don't have the luxury of having 2 or 3 (or a fleet of them). And, of course, the suit you picked might not be the right tool for the job: if you buy a suit because you're interested in "max hang time", it might not be the best tool for you for "tight flocking". Can it be done? Sure. Is it harder? Definitely. If your point was reality, we're in complete agreement. But the reality is, it seems the majority of wingsuiters out there have little peni and therefore compensate accordingly. They can't fly a Phantom or other small wing that would be better suited to the goal, even if they did own one. The opening jumps of the first vertical kinda demonstrated this. Remember, Andreea, myself, and several others removed our larger suits and put on Phantom 2's. The first and last photos bear out the quality that came with downsizing the suit.

Don't you think you can view any number of videos (if not all of them) and find something not well-done. The channel you took that from has some FFCs that are of significantly greater concern. If we're going to start down the road of critiquing every video that's up in the cloud...folks'll fee less incentive to post em. Of course commenting on unsafe actions in formations or FFC's is fair game but this is a bit different? You sure this is the direction you wanna go? [edited to respond to Skwrl] I'm not entirely sure that you didn't deliberately leave "skills" out of the list. Any AFFI or RW competitor will tell you "Dress for Success." Same goes for wingsuiting, IMO.

maybe organize a tandem RW jump with your friends. Have em' build a round on you in the air. Matt is particularly good at organizing these and making them fun.

you coulda hit him with your Book of Mormon. Still shaken from that thing.