Royd

So where do you think this country would be if Hillary could wave a magic wand? Seriously. Ze papers, please.

I've seen quite a bit of new construction and I know that if someone isn't holding the contractor's feet to the fire, there'll be enough good material thrown away so that for every 15 houses you could build one for free. The homeowner ends up paying for it. This is the problem with a bottomless source of funds with no serious accountability. Private money tends to end a lot of the waste.

I am indeed taken aback when I see a pregnant woman drinking heavily . . . Where we differ is that I don't think either of those things should be illegal. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's her body, it's her fetus. She can choose to kill up until the last second before delivery, but goes to jail because she killed it on her own. Somehow, I'm just not getting the picture. This might require govt intervention, or private coercion in the least. I quess it's no longer her body to do with as she pleases.

I believe that in a few years there is going to be a lot of opposition to abortion by women who have had one, and realize exactly what they have done. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So you're saying that despite the 'It's my body, my business' mind set, deep down, they know that it's a shameful thing which they have done?

As much as it is looking around at my fellow jumpers chest straps sometime before they leave the airplane.What are the chances of it actually causing me harm?

Many of them probably would have been taken care of by family members, just like today. Numbers? No, but as I posted, we have couples chasing to the ends of the earth to get a baby. Maybe it's just the chic thing to do. I just want to be like Madonna and Angelina Jolie. Are you saying that all of the ducks need to be in a row for the next 20 yr. if you plan on having a child? We now have 30yr. olds living at home with mom still making their beds. A little adversity can be a good thing.

Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We now have couples running off to foreign lands to get children. Maybe they just want a cute Asian baby. Who knows. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The thought never crossed my mind. Are you saying that abortion is a white woman thing? We just wouldn't understand. Now, there's a stereotype.

He just wants it to be funded with private money. Other than that, the whole thing is just another slippery slope. Crossing one threshold never seems to be enough for those who believe that science should have no moral limitations. I'm sure that someone has a vision of growing bodies in a lab for spare parts.

People who don't have a lot of regrets don't dwell on it as much. It's in the past. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You mean like those who don't want to get stretch marks or have to give up the party life? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My point is that any woman who can have an abortion simply for the sake of vanity or convenience, and shows no sign of the gravity of the action that she has taken, is, indeed, a very shallow person. I believe that in a few years there is going to be a lot of opposition to abortion by women who have had one, and realize exactly what they have done. Many womens' organizations want abortion to be the first solution to the problem. Anything less sheds light on their true politcal agenda. It is a sad commentary on the moral direction of this country.

OK, so hypothetically, we implement your plan... Then what? You mentioned earlier "There are 40 million dead babies..." Well, some of them would be close to 50 by now. How many potential geniuses, entrepreneurs or philanthropists have we destroyed? And for those who weren't the brightest, we wouldn't have had to replace them with illegal immigrants. They probably would still be voting Democrat. When you spread that 40 million over the last 40 years, I'm sure that society could have easily absorbed them successfully. We now have couples running off to foreign lands to get children. Maybe they just want a cute Asian baby. Who knows.

Why not? We've spent tons of money over the years keeping perfectly healthy, lazy adults alive. Why not add one more burden to the huge social experiment?

You mean like those who don't want to get stretch marks or have to give up the party life?

This should be the moral option as the first choice, which is presented. It goes against the politcal agenda of groups like planned parenthood, and other womens' groups, therefore, it's going to be on the back burner as an option.

Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Correct me if I am wrong people, but abortions (not counting medical issues where the mother's life is at risk) are NOT performed at the late stages of a pregnancy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They are really rare and almost never done.. yet that is what gets all the air time and pictures of torn apart babies in the Pro-Life mind set.. you hear far more about partial birth abortions.. yet they are the rarest of them.... nasty pictures make for better press ya know. So, why did the pro-choice group even feel a need to travel down that road except to make a point?

That's because it didn't have a post dive discussion. So, what did you like about the dive. You have to use the stadium approach when entering the formation. Just because you've taken grips doesn't mean that you can stop flying.

Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First, if we will not protect the most innocent amongst us, what does that say about the moral degradation of our society. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You know very well, that I am referring to the unborn child.back at you

Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Abortion is outlawed = crime, homelessness rates go up = society at large suffers/pays. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You missed one. The Socialist party has a lot more voters to put on the govt. dole. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not hardly, but they have missed a grand opportunity. They could have had 40 million more subjects, claiming that they saved their lives. The ultimate victim!

Tunnel vision for sure. You missed one. The Socialist party has a lot more voters to put on the govt. dole.

To be able to live in a particular climate or environment. If the child can live, even in the artificial evironment of a neonatal unit , until it can survive on its own, it should be given a chance to reach its full potential.

I have an idea. I will now argue the other side for a minute. Liberals are big on science for science sake, so we need every opportunity to expand our knowledge and technology. And, hey, the child was going to die anyway, so why not use it to our advantage.

I have several arguments and I may not be able to put them together in an orderly fashion, but I'll give it a try. First, if we will not protect the most innocent amongst us, what does that say about the moral degradation of our society. We have watched the downhill slide in many areas, but the abortion proponents, commonly known as pro-choice, have taken it to the max. Originally, they burned them alive in the womb with a saline solution and had to abort them in the first trimester. Then, they simply ripped them apart and removed them piece by piece. Now, they can wait until seconds before the child takes its first breath, turn it around, deliver it feet first, stab it in the back of the head and suck its brains out? My main argument here is that if the child is viable, either on its own, or through the use of medical technology, at the time the decision for abortion is made, why does the child have to die? At this point, it is usually about destoying the life of the child, which says a lot about the woman in question. I guess the women's lib movement has proven that no one can tell them what to do with their own lives or bodies. How can those who so fervently embrace the individual rights of the woman to do as she pleases, turn around and embrace the " It takes a village to raise a child" mentality? If one person has the power of life and death over a child, just because it's in the womb, why shouldn't another person have that same right in raising a child as they see fit? We have govt. intervention because someone left their 8 yr, old child home alone while they worked or took care of some business. We have no problem with allowing the woman the right to choose whether the child lives or dies, but we are aghast if we see a pregnant woman smoking, drinking, taking any number of recreational drugs, or engaging in some other risky behavior that might damage or endanger the potential child. The irony and the hypocracy is that it is generally the same group of people who are pushing both agendas.

Are they considered Cougars if they are toothless?

If you are only loading your canopy at 1.1 to 1, you are probably one of the slower canopies on your DZ. I'm usually with the first group out of the door, so we are breaking off at 4k and opening at 3k, and I am the slowest in the group. Most of the time, the landing patterns seems to be helter skelter. Maybe it's because I'm still new in the sport, and I'm usually the last one in with my group, but when the pattern does get stacked with everyone evenly spaced horizontally and vertically, I just want to say,"Yea Baby, that's what I'm talkin' about."

Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...a nicely stacked pattern is not only orderly, but a thing of beauty. Any thoughts? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, seriously. Does there seem to be any effort at teaching about stacking the pattern, other than an occasional word.

a woman has carried up to the point of viability, she has had plenty of time to think about the situation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It would have been a relatively short, boring thread if we just simply answered the question with a yes or no. No?