vortexring

That's an interesting view. What examples would you state to support your argument? I'd appreciate reading them. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

You should hear the Vulcan bomber. Now that's loud! Still, maybe the Russians might have a reply. But then again, I remember the flap over the MiG 29. It wasn't until Germany became unified and the West got to really have a look, and realised that despite being a manouverable machine, the avionics were crap. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

That wouldn't be difficult would it? Someone said this regarding the news report from The Times: 'Not exactly earth-shattering. I don't think there are many people left in the world who actually believe the US Governments version of events. We all know we were lied to in order to get the war America wanted. It's just a shame the media keeps debating what the public already knows.' I'd imagine most people would agree with that statement. So whilst it's becoming more and more popular for journalists to write critical stories of the apparant lies over Iraq, it'd be nice to eventually know the truth. The most credible reasoning I've come across has been from Naomi Klein. I still like to think our leaders are motivated for the long term common good. Certainly more so in Afghanistan than Iraq, but I do wonder sometimes. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

How would I know? They seem to be credible to great amount of credible people. Really? Didn't you say 'and while religious people believe I'm doomed to hell for not accepting Jesus Christ as my savior'. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

This should be an interesting read. It's a book by Ron Suskind where you can read about the headlines it's making on numerous websites: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article4466512.ece http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1041916/Bush-faked-letter-linking-Iraq-9-11-led-US-Britain-war-Pulitzer-prize-winner-claims-explosive-new-book.html http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12308.html If you're interested his webite is here: http://www.ronsuskind.com/thewayoftheworld/ edit: A brief description: 'In a sweeping, propulsive, and multilayered narrative, The Way of the World investigates how America relinquished the moral leadership it now desperately needs to fight the real threat of our era: a nuclear weapon in the hands of terrorists. Truth, justice, and accountability become more than mere words in this story. Suskind shows where the most neglected dangers lie in the story of "The Armageddon Test"—a desperate gamble to send undercover teams into the world's nuclear black market to frustrate the efforts of terrorists trying to procure weapons–grade uranium. In the end, he finally reveals for the first time the explosive falsehood underlying the Iraq War and the entire Bush presidency.' 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Is it? It said this in The Times: 'It is very rare for the United States to request the extradition of someone accused of a cyber-crime. The fact extradition was requested at all, suggests that they are taking this case extremely seriously.' http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1607497.ece So I'm still wondering why. Maybe it simply is to make an example of him. But if he didn't access classified material, why go to all the bother? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Have a look at this: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=102085 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Yeah, agreed. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Sure, it improves hand/eye co-ordination. I remember walking out to my training aircraft with the instructor for my first flight using the instruments.(You wear a 'hood' on your helmet, so simulate being in cloud/IMC) He basically said, don't worry, you'll be crap compared to the younger guys. On asking why he explained because, being older, I'd not been part of the playstation generation like the younger students. Have a look at a WAH-64 cockpit, especially the cyclic and collective and you'll see what I mean. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

And while we're on the topic - having spent the past two years in part of the former Ottoman Empire...gee...let me think... Really? Didn't you chat with them? Didn't you eat and drink with them? Meet their families? I've been lucky to do so with Muslims from all over the world. That includes where you are, Macedonia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Jordan, Turkey, Egypt, Kenya, Kuwait, etc, etc. Funny how I didn't meet that many called Mohammed in Kosovo. Funny how I'm not full of hate towards them as you are; last two years I've been risking my life on military operations. In fact, make that 15 years. What have you been doing in the last two? Looking at a computer screen? They're pretty secular around here though. They don't much like anybody (and that includes spinach-chinned religious whackos) telling them what to do. Who's a spinach-chinned religious whacko? edit: If they bother you that much, why not join the infantry? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

SO WHAT? If they're so easily offended, then maybe it's themselves and their death cult they should be examining, not critics like me or Wafa Sultan. Not really. Any normal person would be offended by such remarks portraying them and their culture as you did. Why do they need you defending them, anyway? It isn't like they can't look after themselves. They don't need me defending them. I found your original statement mildly disturbing, and as you later asked for an explanation, I gave you one. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Why do you need an explanation for the blatantly obvious? Your posts would be deeply offensive for all the perfectly decent millions of Muslims in the world. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

I think anyone putting their personal details available online is simply asking for trouble, whether it's through Myspace, blogs or even here! Besides, with quite a few people now mentioning they're being stalked online here, how can you tell? I thought you'd have to be registered to send PM's, and if it's a bogus ID, surely there's an IP address worth investigating? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

These occurances have been reported regularly over the years, with civilians also reporting seeing and hearing things too. From all over the world. Whether the occurances are true or not, I cannot say. I didn't see them. Sure, it is funny. I did say it was a third hand story. Of course such stories tend to be general nonsense. Basically the guy telling me was quite credible in my opinion. And the others too. And members of my family have witnessed some inexplainable stuff. So I'm fairly open to it all. Maybe they're all lying through their teeth. I just don't think they are. I'll look around and see if I can find you link, as there were some recent incidents reported by the tower, the Met men, and civilians around a base in the UK. Who knows? Maybe they're in the same Premier Nutter league as Mckinnon. Seems there are a lot of nutters cutting about, who once, and still have prominent and credible jobs. edit: At the end of the day, this is an amusing report more than anything else. I especially enjoyed reading Mckinnons report of the 'lady' in NASA who airbrushed out the UFO's from the pictures which were to be released to the general public. Hilarious. But hang on a sec, if the UFO's were making themselves so obvious, wouldn't there be lots of astronaut reports too?

Even before 9/11, government laws were cracking down on computer hackers. Stiff penalties, including fines and jailtime levied to anyone hacking into any computer system. This included script-kiddies, like this guy, that hacked into any college computer without authorized permission to do so. I have no doubt this guy downloaded some scripts from the net (which any 10-year-old can do) and used them to break into some computers. For that, you get fined and jailed by the US government, if you get caught. I highly doubt he got close to anything "confidential", much less classified. The implication is that he broke into classified systems - bullshit. I've been there, and I know the security measures - they simply aren't connected to the Internet. Not much fun if you watch TV and like to imagine that all these classified systems can be hacked, but the truth is if you don't have physical access to these machines, you can't get in (assuming security standards are being followed, and yes, we were routinely audited). And physical access is much, much harder. He claims he talked to government employees, but do you believe what other people on the Internet say? Probably just some people with "issues" or kids having fun. He claims he did this and that, but just couldn't seem to produce any evidence of what he says he saw. It reads like a guy with a delusion of grandeur making some small-time hacking seem like the greatest story ever told. Mckinnon is nuttier than a fruitcake, that's quite obvious. I'm still curious why the US is making such an effort to extradite him. He himself readily admits to being an 'amateur' hacker. He said himself any fool could have done what he done. He also admits to drinking and smoking grass as he done so. So it does seem far more likely he's being delusional. But why would the US go to such efforts to arrest such a small time fool of a hacker? Just to make an example of him? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Cheers for the link; I hadn't read that part in the few articles I'd read. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Maybe they put us here on earth. And spiders! 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

I believe there is hidden knowledge of UFO's. Dunno about anti-gravity and what have you. I was chatting with an Air Traffic Controller who mentioned an incident where one of his mates witnessed a blip on the screen travelling at amazing speeds. An then witnessed lots of Official Secrets Act papers being shoved in front of him, demanding his signature! And sure, it's a story a bit like I-knew-this-guy-who-knew-this-guy...but funnily enough, I've spoke with other controllers on different bases... 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Really? I didn't read about that part - have you a link? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/4977134.stm Poor lad, he's going to the European Court of Human Rights to avoid being extradited. I read in the paper the Americans will fight him all the way. They want his ass. And when they've finished with it, he'll be taking it into the US prison system. You can see why he's worried. edit: And I reckon he's not making up the 'UFO' stuff either. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

What a ridiculous statement. Have you ever met any Muslims? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

I'd see it more as having driven America in bad ways. Such as Afghanistan. http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2370271 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

There's something mildly disturbing about this post. . . 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Maybe 'cos they thought they'd need to look after you.