vortexring

So what is your opinion? We naturally evolved to what we are today? I don't completely believe God created us, it just seems more likely some form of intelligent designer did! As it says on the NASA website: "the method for ensuring that all of the right components find each other in the right quantities and under the right circumstances has yet to be identified." 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Answered* answered in the other thread. So we don't see everything as upside down? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Well, here's the full text here, with an argument too! 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Sure do. What I find difficult to understand is how we could evolve to where we are now without intelligent design? Even Darwin confessed, "To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree." Wouldn't it be more likely we evolved through deliberate intelligent design? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Darwin confessed, "To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree." 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Indeed. An area (and there are many), worth highlighting is: "Many of these troops and their leaders through general officer level are on their 4th or more combat deployments since “911.” We have suffered 36,000 US killed and wounded. Their families are getting tired. The country is not at war. The Armed Forces and the CIA are at war. We are at the point of breaking faith with our troops. Much of our ground and air equipment is falling apart. The anemic US Air Force and Naval modernization programs will place us in great risk in the Pacific in the coming decades. The Armed Forces are under-resourced and inadequately sized for the national security strategy we have pursued. There is a serious mismatch between ends and means. We are going to wreck the US Armed Forces unless Congress and the next Administration address this situation of great strategic peril. (How many NATO countries involved in Afghan. are saying literally the same thing?) 11. SUMMARY: We cannot allow ourselves to fail in Afghanistan. NATO is central to achieving our purpose. This is a generational war to build an Afghan state and prevent the creation of a lawless, extremist region which will host and sustain enduring threats to the vital national security interests of the United States and our key allies." The subject of Pakistan, whilst covered, isn't covered in depth. Sure, he says: "We must do no harm dealing with Pakistan. We clearly can strike directly and covertly across the border in self-defense. We must never publicly put the Pakistani military in political peril with their own people." But this; from another article, has more pertinent information regarding the two countries: "In theory, the Pakistani government has signed up to the war on terror and is trying as best it can to help us. But in practice, it is playing a dangerous double game. The Pakistani government, army and intelligence services all have their own distinct reasons for keeping the Taleban in business. The Pakistan army effectively ceded Quetta to the Taleban six years ago, for example, hoping their brutal methods would deal with local Baluchistan separatists. Inside the UK Ministry of Defence the name Quetta is spat out like a curse by British commanders who know they are fighting a lopsided war. ‘We have to start looking at this area as a whole battlefield, Pakistan included,’ one senior MoD source tells me. ‘Because that’s what the locals are doing. We have to think the same way.’ But they cannot admit as much in public. Handling an insurgency is one thing, but any war involving a nuclear-armed country like Pakistan is almost too frightening a prospect to consider. Quietly, the problem of Pakistan’s terrorist-infested border areas has overtaken Iran to become the British government’s most acute foreign policy challenge. In fact, the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (Fata) of Pakistan can lay good claim to be the most prolific terrorist zone anywhere in the world, thanks to its substantial al-Qa’eda camps. The London, Madrid, Bali and Islamabad bombings were all planned there. MI5 believe half the British terror suspects they are currently monitoring were originally trained in Fata camps. The problem is becoming too big to ignore. There are an estimated 8,000 foreign militants in Fata, from Arabs to Chechens, operating sophisticated training camps with impunity. The American failure to understand the complexity of the Pakistan problem is perhaps one of the biggest strategic errors of the war in Afghanistan. President Pervaiz Musharraf reluctantly agreed to join the war on terror, and Washington was keen to take him at his word. But as the Taleban fell, the Pakistani security establishment opened an escape hatch for the enemy by removing their troops from the border of the Fata, allowing the Taleban to relocate. The jihadis now have bases, broadcasting stations and the protection of being in a territory that is part of a nuclear-armed state. The West invaded Afghanistan to stop terrorism being given a state home. Yet al-Qa’eda is alive, well and living in Fata. Just what to do about this is a source of deep division in Washington. Pakistan is deeply nervous about any American incursions into its territory — even if it is territory like Fata where the Pakistan army itself suffered heavy losses at the hands of the Taleban. Britain is pushing hard for a diplomatic solution, saying that no incursion can succeed without the backing of the Pakistani military, which is geared up to fight India, not to track down insurgents. And anyway, after years of failed policy, and being played like a fiddle by President Musharraf, America is losing patience. The Pentagon provided helicopter gunships to Musharraf that were intended for fighting the Taleban — only to see them used to mow down separatists in the Baluchistan province." 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Then surely this article is equally cool! 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Hence 'Greetings, Carbon-based Bipeds'? Of course. It's fascinating how the answers to 3 important questions are quite possibly interlinked: Is there life elsewhere in the universe? Exactly how did we evolve? Is there a God. It seems if we can properly answer the first two we can quite possibly answer the third. Which would bugger up a lot of peoples arguments on SC... 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Ok, cheers for making it clear. So if we originate from original lifeforms, which orginate from carbon compounds, which orginate from the stars...man, what a journey to be where we are now. Especially if it is just a case of natural evolution, with no 'Godly' interference. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

I don't disagree with you Jakee, but you're pretty much describing a common perception of God. It could be the case it's these common perceptions, possibly through religion, which are wrong. He could be beyond our earthly comprehension, hence having 'God' like powers. I'd imagine he doesn't have a physical body for a start. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Great links Marg; cheers. Looks like I've got some reading to do. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Fair enough, perhaps I'm showing my ignorance of the matter, but wasn't the earth originally non-organic? If orginal lifeforms evolved from this, didn't we then evolve from this original life? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Why not? It seems there are enough mistakes in the bible, so why not in our common perception of God? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Indeed it's superficial, but doesn't it still stand? Abiogenesis brought up some interesting links: http://www.bio-medicine.org/biology-definition/Abiogenesis/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis http://www.trueorigin.org/abio.asp http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/abioprob.html Seems to be a contentious and fascinating subject. Ultimately is there any proof we evolved from non-organic matter? I can't find any. I sometimes wonder; wouldn't it be more likely that God is an 'alien' in some form or other.... 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

No mate. I see him the odd time when I go 'home' though. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

I know a lad who received a 'shoeing' from a very irrate farmer after shooting his prize bull in the nuts with an air rifle. The same lad was almost lynched by the elderly ladies and gentlemen of the local bowling green. He'd built (as a 13 year old), an OP which looked down onto the green, where he spent a summer shooting people in the ass as they bent down to roll their bowl.

Get the loudest and most powerful Banger/Thunderflash you have. Fill a bin full of ice and ice cold water. Put struck thunderflash under sleeping victims bed. On detonation, as victim leaps up, simultaneously pour bin full of ice cold water onto victim. Stand back and enjoy the resulting heart failure. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Anyway, I only said this: "It reminds me of the continual God/Evolution debates. If there isn't a God because there isn't any evidence, then there isn't other life in the Universe because there isn't any evidence. I think most people believe there is a good chance of there being life elsewhere in the Universe so why are so many closed, like yourself, to the possibility of God?" as it popped into my head. It reminds me of the continual God/Evolution debates. That's all. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

You're stooping to using Sophistry on me, there, and I caught you at it. Not at all. Just like I never said you did. I only brought you into it because to me you seem to have a closed mind on the subject. That's an assumption I made through your mockery. If it's just about man's misuse and misapplication of religion, then fair enough. Fill your boots. You just did. Kind of. Good, but that just puts you in the same position as everyone else really. Perhaps, but what else do they have!? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

It reminds me of the continual God/Evolution debates. If there isn't a God because there isn't any evidence, then there isn't other life in the Universe because there isn't any evidence. I think most people believe there is a good chance of there being life elsewhere in the Universe so why are so many closed, like yourself, to the possibility of God? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Yes, but just because you haven't seen any proof doesn't necessarily mean there isn't any proof.

Yes. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

That shouldn't be a problem, assuming you're speaking slowly and LOUDLY? What! How long have you been there? 5 minutes!? Give it time mate, give it time.... 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Perhaps. If you believe life on earth simply evolved, then wouldn't be a natural conclusion to believe life evolved on other planets in the Universe? Sure, there isn't any evidence yet, but it's a fair one. Why couldn't that life be far more advanced than us? Why couldn't they have developed technology way beyond our understanding? To believe 'they're' in the process of visiting earth, abducting random people and sticking probes up their asses does stretch the imagination, yes. But who knows? I reckon that believing there isn't life elsewhere in the Universe to show a closed mind. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

Sorry - thought you were asking for UFO depictions in general. It seems your popular aliens originated from H.G. Wells' Of a Book Unwritten, The Man of the Year Million, written around the 1890's. I'd agree with you that it is the product of pop culture and being mental though. More about them here. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'