RiggerLee

What I saw was a little bit diffrent. The tape holding the RW4 ring snaped. I have to admit I do not recal which side it was. I also know someone that broke a front risor above/at the confluence wrap. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

The issues I was thinking of was with coard wise nilon tapes in the bottom seam of the canopy. They actually shrank enough to distort the airfoil. Then again they were already haveing problems with that design to begin with. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Historicly there has been some problems with tape shrinkage in a few designs. The Safier is not exactly a super high performance canopy. I can't imagion you haveing those kinds of problems with it. As long as you get the salt washed out of it you'll be fine. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

There's a much simpiler issue here. It's an alteration to the harness. Unless this modifacation has been approved by the manufactorer or FSDO and signed off by a master rigger then the TSO is dead. You have a very nice climbing harness, Sex swing, wall ornament, etc. Wait, climbing harnesses have some kind of cert. Sorry it's just a sex swing. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

There is wear during packing. The millatary did a study of packing surfaces. Every thing from grass to concreat, wood, blue tarps, etc. I don't remember where to find it and exactly what they were measuring, probably perosity. Oddly what they found to be the best surface was concreat. Smooth painted concreat like a really nice hanger floor. They could sweep it very clean and they were not getting damage from the fibors of the carpet picking the fabric of the canopy. One of the worst was a blue tarp. It was ok when it was new but as soom as it wore the little fibors would become very abrasive. In any case the point is that there is a fair bit of wear even just from packing over time. The two real questions are does this actually effect the porfomance, the answer being diffrent for diffrent canopies, and is there some wild card out there that might destroy the structural integraty. Lee Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

You've got me curious. I've been looking around and I'm having trouble finding data on the half life of nylon. I think part of the problem is I'm not smart enough to reconise the articals I need when I see them. Poynters has numbers from a study of old 24' twills. They were showing the tensile strength in warp at 79% fill 61.6% tear warp 51% fill 38.5% lines 68.4% and oddly, if I'm reading this right, the porosity went down to 73.5% of the original. This is after what they classified as "some use" 25 years later. Now it's an old twill POS a totally diffrent fabric with diffrent finnishing methods etc. but it does seem a little disturbing. They were actually useing it as an argument in favior keeping it in service. The argument was that it would still, in theory, meet the shock values of the low speed cat. 40% lower then standard cat. That's more a testament to how some of the older canopies were over built then to the durability of parachutes. I think it's safe to say that modern canopies do not have that much of a margion for error perticuarly at the speeds we fall at today. P 2 just reprints the same chart but then they say that nylon is not detearerated by age only wear. They state that 40 year old nylon will test as strong as the original specs. Storie, the rigger I'd spoken to before is out of town so I can't get ahold of him for another week. Is any one fermilior with a report suggesting that nylon over 25 years old can experence sudden rappid detereration in strength bassed on age alone? I can't find it. On a more practical note, would PD care to share what they have found with their monitoring program? I'm sure they're out there lissening. That's as good example of a study of modern canopies at there "mid life" as we have. Strong should also have some data by now with all the tandoms they've pulled into the shop. I concidder that in a whole nother cat. but it would still be interesting. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Wow, a problem I've never encountered before. Must be a one in a thousand canopy. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I don't think any one here will contest that that was a pretty good booboo you cought. I don't think any one here will deny that continuing education and awareness are important issues. You don't want to say it, fine, I will. A pop top with a cypres is a cluster fuck. Packing it is more complex. No way around it. You can screw it up. This is some thing people should pay more attention to. You have also taken some other stances here. Let me make this clear, I'm not on your side of the argument right now but I am lissening. This is a tecnical groop. All you have to do is convence us. I and others would like to hear the data you are baseing this on. PD and Aerodynes stance are well known. I do not recall and could not find on their web site in the manuals a lifetime on FFE canopies. Have all of you checked out there new high speed deployment system? I haven't seen any of them around here yet. I'm haveing trouble with the PDF link. That is again some thing I don't deal with on a regular bases. Maybe you could repost some of that here. It would seem that PIA has in fact not taken a stand on this. I would like to hear any tecnical arguments from PIA that you might be refering to. If there is evedence for a time deteareation of nilon I and others would like to hear more about it. As to PD, I'm trying to remember when they really started to build sport reserves? I'm wondering about the timeing and the climant at the time? In the mid to late eighties there was a lot of talk about perosity becouse people were putting old worn out Ravens that had been jumped as mains in reserves. There were some low cutaways that ended in fatalities. I'm wondering if that was the time frame when they wrote that requirement into their rules. Now I think it's a fine idea to track these things and an exalent oppertunity to gather some data on the ageing of canopies under normal wear over time. They should be acumulateing some date now. Do you know what percentage they are returning to service? Have they been doing any retesting of reserves that were below there min? Has it shown a higher failure rate? Or have they failed to continue to meat the spec's of the TSO? Inquireing minds want to know. Have you seen there numbers on this or better yet could they publish them? As GPI/FCI has not seen fit to put a life span on there reserve I do not see where the lack of a history on the canopy is in any way relavent. I can see no reason to ground it on any reason other then condition. If you want to make that statement then justafy it. How does the loss of a card make the rig illeagal to ever pack again? If it's a question of age then make an argument for extending the decisions of one manufactorer to a compleatly unrelated product. We're lissening but you'll have to make more then just some broad statement. The people on this board are just a little too sophisticated for that. You'll have to explaine. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Nice catch. I'm not serprised it was missed at sereral drop zones during the gear check. We've been pushing to make sure that a rigger does the gear check when people arrive to fill out the waver. Even then there are some that are a lot more maticulas then others. In the past I've seen it handaled by the little girles at the counter who were not even sky divers. It's an issue. It tends to get passed over in a very casual way. Often the people have ten other things to do and rarely do they seem to reallize the importants of it. It opens up all kinds of liability for the drop zone and the pilot. On the other issues of age and a lack of history. I was talking to another rigger in the area recently about this. He has in fact adopted a twenty year rule. It's a choice he has made that he will not service gear older then that. He was citeing research that suggested a drop off in strength around that time independent of UV, temp, or other factores. If any one has a copy I'd like to see the data on this. Now the FAA hasn't taken any stand on this. I know of a few manufactorers that have volentaroly placed a twenty year life span on there own products. Most noteably Buttler and National. Strong has rules on recertifacation on it's tandom gear. We're starting to come up on the 40/25 rule on PD reserves. It's been a while but the last time I talked to some one from there I was told that they were fairly happy with the condition of the canopies comeing into the shop and were able to return the majority of them to service. It' been a couple of years does any one know how those statistics are adding up? To the best of my knowlage GPI and FCI have never seen fit to put a life span or pack/ride tracking requirments on there equipment like PD has done. I don't think there is any leagle reason to ground the rig on that bases. The fact that there is no history or old cards is a little annoying but it doesn't nesasaraly make the rig unairworthy. If he just put it togather he may not have gotten the old cards along with the canopy. Or some one may have been pencil whipping the thing for so long that they were embarosed to hand the card to a rigger. Or it may have just been lost. When you sign it off you are your self certifing it to be airworthy. Nothing in the past matters. The only cards you actually have to keep with the rig are those that show complience with SB and AD. Other wise you are responcable for seeing to it that the rig is in compliance with them your self and signing them off again your self. I'm not saying it's good practice, in fact it pisses me off, but in theory as there is no tracking requirment on this canopy you can just chunk the old cards. It's a little bit dangerous to start talking about mandatory service lifes of TSO'ed gear. I don't really like the presedent. My airplane was built in 69. Should I just throw it away as well. Aluminiom has as much of an issue with metal fateague as nilon has with age. We've opporated for many a long year on the idea of condition being the bases of airworthiness. At least that's how I was raised. Maybe I'm paranoid but I tend to feel that part of the push towards this is a wish by the manufactores to limit liability. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

You talk alot about some of these short courses. I think you'll find that a longer slower appentaceship like what you are proposeing is more commen then you think. In fact traditionally that is the way it has been done. Not just in rigging but for pilots and macanics. The whole FAA standard is built around the idea of a mentor takeing a student under his wing where he learns his "craft" under the guidence of this instructor. I'm trying to remember when DeWolf started running his shake and bake course. I don't know exactly when people started to realize that you could teoreticaly cram all the specified requirments into about ten days. I don't think it was that much of a problem becouse I don't beleave any one walked out of there with any illusions that they had more then a student lissons. Over the years a number of people have decided to open there own little rigging schools. The Idea developed that you could make money off of this by selling people there ticket. I'm not saying that they did not meat the requirements I'm just commenting on motovations. Now these people are out there trying to fill courses. They're waveing there arms around. That's why you see them. Some times they make it seem that there course is the only way to get your ticket. That's not true. In fact I think they are still in the minority. Of all the riggers we have around here only one is from a "quick" course. And he's not bad. Coming along nicely. Every one else was mentored. The fastest I've seen got her ticket in about five months. I worked in a loft for a couple of years before I took my test. Now I used to work at Quincy with Wag. I do admit that I have seen some scarry things show up in that trailor from some of the more out of the way corners of the country. If I was you I would worry less about how people are initally trained and more about how they work afterwards. The biggest problems seem to come from people that end up working in isolation. People that get left behind. If any thing I'd like to see more continueing education. On the whole thoue I think you'll find the standards in the industry to be very high. I think there are other greater wories out there. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

What do you think of the litness paper idea? I didn't get any responces to that thought. Do you think it has any marit? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Sky 490, may I suggest you go back and reed some of the threads on the Javelin RSL. Also check the Sunpath web site. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

By the way, something I did back when I was jumping a Sorceror was to put a velcro tab in the top of my free bag like in the top of a direct bag, 1*4 in. So that it would at least streatch the canopy out. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Honestly I don't think we'll see that much diffrence at 180 days. Don't get me wrong, I've opened packs and found some scary shit. Example: A Softy with a perserve that has some type of polly cotton diper. The rig had gotten wet. The lines of the full stow had absorbed and held all the water and the diper had been completely eaten by mildue. It was gone. The tape around the edge was all that was left. I'm not trying to start shit but if you want to be really tecnical that canopy should actualy be under a 60 day cycle. Even if it had been I'll bet the out come would have been the same. I'll bet that happened in under two weeks. If a Cypress had a melt down I'd bet the dammage would be done in a matter of houres or at most days. Most wear issues I get on people about happen over longer periods of time. I'm generaly on them for a couple of cycles before they get new risors or what ever. You could argue that if some thing happens to the pack job that you are exposed to the danger for a longer period of time. On the other hand it was just a few months ago that we found a C9 with a moler strap tied around the skirt of the canopy. Jeff just about freaked when he opened it. It was the first black death rig he'd seen. So are you better off with the added wear, possable damage, and errors you face in haveing it packed more often or risking a longer cycle? In the end I don't think it will make any real diffrence. Most skydivers today actualy take pretty good care of their equipment. The ones I worry about the most are the pilot rigs and most of those are for all practical purpouses on a yearly repack cycle any way. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I really wasn't joking. The very small percentage of people ligitamently knocked out might just have to be sacrificed to the Sky Gods. I can count the instances of KO over the last fifteen years on my fingures where as I've totaly lost count on the number cypres and others have tried to kill with dual canopies. Honestly I don't know why you would want one. You'd be much better off buying a helmet. A REAL helmet, not some skydiveing POS. On a less political note. Has any one thought about incorperating a small window next to the cypres instalation with a peace of littnis paper? My chem isn't that great. Would it turn over time? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I'm all in favor of leaving it to the individuals personal discretion. Within five years the fatality rate would triple and I think this is just the thing we need to separate out the chaff. If you can't take care of your self what are you doing in this sport? Let people be as silly as they want and let them face the consequences of there own decision. The whole issue of aad batteries is I think a moot point as in my humble opinion no one off student status should be allowed to jump one. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

One trick is to leave a temp pin in under the last flap as you pull up the loop to put the rip cord in. It's still a bit hard even then. It's also hard on the last two grommets and of course you must remember to retreave the pin. I grant this is not the best solution. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Dear Booth Don't get me wrong. I'm not down on you. I think the sky hook is a very interesting system and in perticular would be excelent for tandoms. I used to jump a Sorsorer that you stole the idea from and applaud your sucsess in adapting it to a springloaded pilot chute with normal emergency proceadures. Some thing that no one else had been able to do. Perhaps you can clarify some thing for us and correct my miss conceptions of your new reserve system. It may be that others have also failed to grasp the intricasies of your design. If you have full confodence in your "curved" reserve pin to pull from odd angles, as unlikely as that senaireo my be, why did you feel the need to introduce your new and improved BIGFATSQUAREPOSPEGPENTHATEVERYONEHATESBECOUSETHEYCAN'TSHUVEITTHROUGHATIGHTLOOPTOSAVETHERELIVES. If it was not to insure that you would break eather the reserve loop or the RSL before bending the pin then what was the thought process behind this inovation? It seemed to appear around the time you started selling the Sky Hook with out the guide ring for the RSL. If I might humblely suggest one small improvement to what is with out doubt one of the most advanced designs on the market, is there any thing preventing you from perhaps putting just a bit of a point on the damn thing so you can push it through the f#%king loop? A devoted fan in awh of your brillence. Lee P.S. I did once see a pin bent 20 deg on an RSL deployment. We have reason to beleave that the RSL was below the ring. His other rig was. Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Just one comment. It's not about it catching on the housing. The key is there must be a ring between the RSL and the pin. It's there to redirect the pull horizontally so you don't bend the pin. Yes, there were issues with this in the past. It was only later when rigs like the Javelin came out that they started putting two rings on there. When the Dolphin came out there was a lot of talk about catching the housing. I'm not sure how big that issue truely is but at the time we saw a spert of rigs where people were putting the RSL below the ring next to the pin. They had frogoten the real danger. PS That's one of the reasons I'm not wild about the sky hook. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Are you two conspireing? Could you possably set him up with a better oppertunity to get up on a soap box? Note to all, the guy two up jumps a Racer the only rig left on the market with rubberbands on the reserve line. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I just wanted to throw out a testamoneal to some of these canopies. Over the last few years Flight Concepts hasn’t been aggressively prosueing sales in the skydiving market. Many people have never heard of them. There business has been growing in other areas. More then once I’ve gotten calls from younger riggers asking about this strange thing they found with no staibalizers and these funny things on the bottom. Part of it is the area of the country. In some states there products are everywhere. There was a time here in north Texas when Mantas were the standered student canopy. Many people went on to jump there mains when the time came to buy there own gear. The dealers around here started to push Pd’s and Ravens. We go through a generation about every five years and it’s gotten to the point that most of the people around here have never seen a flare on the bottom of a canopy. I learned to jump on a Glide Path Manta. The first canopy I ever owned was a Mavrick. I made my first BASE jump on it and felt perfectly secure. I jumped there CRW canopy the Prodogy for years when I was playing with Dimond Quest. And as the reserve in my CRW rig is a Glide Path Firelite, which I am still jumping by the way, I have more then a few jumps on it. It has taken good care of me over the years. I still to this day jump Fury’s and a Pegasus for BASE. Even now when poo pooing non BASE specific gear. And I’ve jumped shit with those canopies that no one else has ever done. One of them just came back from a trip to Baffin island where it did good service once again. Now having said all that I’d like to put forward a few questions. These canopies have gone through several iterations starting with Dejango then Glide Path and now Flight Concepts. I know Red is out there lessening. Maybe you can clear up some questions on the history and design for me. The Flares seemed to come about as a response to the direct line attachment law suit at the Dejango/Glide Path transition. The Stabalizers on the reserve seemed to go away at the same time. You continued to have stabilizers on the main. Was this also part of dodging the patent. Is there any thing that would prevent you building a reserve with sabalizers? Next question. If there is a slider stop on the stabalizer at the B line then do you really need one on the end of the A line flare? They are a lump floating out there among the A and B lines. Again for those lessening let me repeat I’ve never had or seen in person a problem with this. I was simple careful with them when I packed. I think this is just an one of those having a bad day lightning strikes. I wish all of the canopies out there had as good a track record as the Flight Concepts canopies. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Come on. Are the creative juices really that dry out there? If you don't speek up you'll be stuck with the same old tired T-Shirts being printed by a certin compony which was actully bought out and is no longer even owned by sky divers any more. No wonder the designs are so lame. Go figure. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

My I suggest one of our fine t-shirts. It's one of our best sellers. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

I've never had the opertunity to attend a bull fight. I'd love to some day. Where is the chearing section for the bull seated? Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com

Yes, you can live on the memory of our sport forever. This is your chance to make your mark. This is your chance at fame and fortune. It's an opportunity for your thoughts and ideas to live on beyond the creator you leave in the ground. All you have to do is think of something funny. We are accepting suggestions for new t-shirt designs. With our booming sales we are expanding our line up of fine designer t-shirt. New screens have arrived and are ready to be filled with designs. This is your moment to shine. That the powerful play goes on and you... you may contribute a verse. What will you give to the world? What thought or idea will you pass on to influence the generations of jumpers to come. The flower of wit blooms and then blows away on the breath of our tung. A joke is an ethereal and the laughter fleeting but a T-Shirt, a T-Shirt is forever (as long as you wash it in cold water and don't get any food stains on it.) Send your ideas to us through our web site at: info@velocitysportswear.com We encourage course, dark, and infantile humor. Art work is also appreciated. Lee Lee lee@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com