Trae

In reply to "What do all of you look for when you first arrive at a new DZ? " ........................................................... get the gear check, DZSO briefing, manifest set-up ,buy jump ticket bit out of the way. Find a place to crash (not literal ) If poss. meet the owner/operator /CI / 2IC / I's/ JM's / manifeters / regulars / caretaker(s) /pat the dog / stir the swell head(s) Then it's just get out and play in the playground, meet old friends, make new ones, avoid real hassles , read the norticeboard , look at the photos, check the goils & dodge their insecure boys, oh left out GO FOR A SKYDIVE ASAP.!

in reply to "For your example, why should a student who does excellent and doesn't require the supplemental 3 hours of training have to pay the same as the nitwit that does need it? (I'm not defending the DZO so much as the good student who costs less to train correctly). The 'good' student could use that money to hire post grad coaching and thus help himself and the DZ with his followon business - good for both. I'll also go further with your position for the contrast. Perhaps a student who has to repeat Level IV seven times should only have to pay for it once? " ................................. Further to furtherer .... why should any-one pay??? The 'nit-wit' student you referred to is possibly a future world class skydiver if handled with respect and guided with decency . not just seen as a meal ticket or free jump express. The student /instructor relationship is a two way thing. The student isn't always to blame for their inexperience or slow learning . Sometimes its an ill equipped and poorly skilled operation that's at fault. In todays world you go to height twice you pay twice ...usually. unless you're a free loader. ...otherwise I agreee with most of your statements.

The simple facts of the matter as I am aware are :-that the victim was put out in high winds and turbulent conditions under a canopy too big for her body weight by DZ operators on their first day of operation with no direct communication with the aircraft combined with multiple breaches of the op regs. eg no ground to air communication after take off. End result a person who had put their trust in the DZ operators hospitalised with serious injuries after being blown into highly turbulant area (tall trees )that surrounded the DZ. The previous operator of this DZ had maintained operations at the same DZ for a long period of time with no such incidents. Cheers but no applause

in reply to "Original poster suggested using one container for normal skydives and normal basejumps. " ........................................ original poster suggested.... "a modular rig that could be altered as required..... " Yep still don't see why not . ie altered for specific type of jump. Didn't suggest using the exact same set up/ rig for all types of skydiving or base jumps. Even though most of the pioneering BASE jumpers did something very much like this ..some with success.... others with mixed results. The idea here was that some less financial jumpers could get by with less gear & fewer rigs. Only an idea .... for the future..... I suppose every -one might get rich and it won't be a worry.

in reply to "Wonder how this happened. They said no obvious signs of foul play. " ............................ He probably died of a broken heart after seeing most of his countrymen develop total compassion burnout.

in reply to "Not much to argue there except the assertion that we're the same as our enemies -- that's not so, not with this enemy. ________ Mmm ...........from the outside looking in its getting harder and harder to tell just who the enemy is here. Putting one soldier/interrogator into a container to interrogate one prisoner/ detainee/terrorist without supervision is an acceptable interrogation technique? This Iraq war was started with a pre-emptive strike that was based upon false and misleading intelligence. The true reason for starting it is getting a bit blurred with all this torture stuff. Is the fighting to defend bad behaviour or to stop it? Most believe that the terrorists do pre-emptive strikes based on false and misleading evidence. Information gained though torture has a tendency to be unreliable. What is done with this info? Is the torture stuff more like a training ground for even more excessive force? Creating lots of soldiers who will do anything to the enemy if told to without question? Where has the high moral ground gone? if it ever existed. There must be some concerns re deprogramming these interrogators to prepare them for return to society. If memory serves there was a huge violent crime increase when all the drug addicted US soldiers returned home after their stint in Vietnam. What'll happen this time round? Too many ???? that's part of the prob with Iraq ..not enough real solutions just more violence.

in reply to "So I have 'dug for them' as you suggest and come up empty. Which operaters, do you imagine, have the power to 'hide' these cases from us? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to name them publicly for fear of reprisals from such powerful and dangerous figures. " .................................. Do you have access to cases that may not have made it to court for various reasons? I find it less than amusing that the laws needed changing to protect the negligent perps from law suits rather than to protect us all from negligence. As far as I understood it when the waver was beaten it was beaten for good reason.....not some fantasy . Some-one got hurt & seriously . Some-one was negligent ...and they knew it. A judge agreed. The dangerous figures you refer to sarcastically (?) are only dangerous through their acts of negligence. Otherwise they are pathetic...especially when they refuse to admit to or learn from their mistakes but instead hide behind an unjust money orientated legal system. To those they injured ( and killed ) and those aware of their gross negligence they are morally barely above other violent criminals.

in reply to "I just hope we could reach a point where they'd give up with this BS. " ............................. Yo..... here to, It's all part of the international FEAR industry. Keeps the fear merchants in business . I notice how no-one seems to focus much on the solutions to these apocalyptic probs...as if our fate is sealed in their BS . For a lot of people who are getting dead right NOW their apocalyse is very real and even old hat. When it's our turn I hope it's from our choosing and not some elite group of meglomaniacs hell bent on world domination and control...at every-one else's cost. I want to go to skydiving and parachutin' heaven not fry and die hell.

The Gath hat works fine especially for the price. If you're looking for carbon fibre penetration/impact proofing you're gonna pay heaps more . Some super strong helmets can actually cut your head off or slice into your neck in some types of accidents.eg if an edge is caught on something. This is due to some helmets sharp edges and ability to roll/slide around on the head if forced. The gath won't do this as it is nicely flexible, and close fitting and in general won't roll around on your head if properly fitted . Surfies have been wearing them for yonks and they've saved many a head from coral strikes. They are amoungst the closet fitting helmets on the market and this can help avoid some hits as well that a larger helmet which sticks out more could take. The Gath visors are NOT optically clear but work OK up to a point...and come in clear smoke and coloured and are affordable to replace. Gath make a specially lined airhat which is fake fleece lined for extra comfort. They also have special side fittings for audibles available. The cons? for some reason people just love carbon fibre . The gath is plastic. PS not a Gath rep but they make a good product that has been much imitated. and they are kinda like pioneers in affordable neat headgear.

in reply to "Your allegations are very serious, but without any evidence to back them up, I would have to relegate them to pure fantasy." .................................... You're entitled to your opinion. This is a discussion forum. ..Not a court of law. In the real world there is no shortage of victims of gross incompetence and negligence. Just because you didn't find them don't mean they don't exist. If you really want to know more about specifics ask a few of the operators of the larger more long term DZ's I'm sure they won't help you out.

in reply to "Post your apocalypse predictions." ............................ Errrrrr hasn't any-one noticed the universe has already been blown to smithereens. We're just getting the after shocks on the few remaining physical particles still floating around.... living and reliving the echoes of a long past event This world is like a miniature hobby destructo kit compared to the real thang....come on lets blow it again it was so much fun the first time Who's turn is it this time

in reply to"Yes, yes, everybody in the entire world owes everybody else $1. I'll pay off as soon as I get paid first. Really, " ................................... Yes REALLY! so pay up Some how because it happened in the past we all should just forgive & forget . DUR There's many examples of governments simply using and abusing their own people and then apparently siding with the enemy. This f&f attitude is real convenient for the international perpetrators and the fat cat stay at homes that benefit financially from others sacrifice.

Noticed that there is fair number of goggles and helmets in use that restrict the wearers peripheral vision. Some also are not optically clear - slightly or majorly distorting the wearers view. Some of these goggles/helmets/visors appear to be designed to look cool rather than to work well...as in providing a clear undistorted image. Some full face helmets restict vision down past nose and cheeks. . Lack of peripheral vision in skydiving can contribute to collisions in freefall as well as under canopy. Do your goggles distort your view or restrict your vision in some directions? Do you think some vision restriction is OK for the sake of extra crash protection.?

in reply to ""At our DZ, once a student is comfortable landing their canopy without a radio (or tying up an up jumper or instructor to watch them), they get a couple bucks discount on gear rental for not needing a radio." Would that "Reek of irresponsible greed?" ................................ Mmmm it does smell a bit .... Does charging a so called problem student extra for the added time needed sit well with you? This is a similar proposition. All this appears to just be another way of extracting more cash from students....when it looks like the instructors and operation that needs some retraining/reorganising/re-equiping. Does the DZ dog get paid to be nice and friendly . Is there a parking fee for getting shade instead of sun? Going further with this perhaps the students should get a refund/discount if they get an inexperienced instructor instead of the hot shot, or are forced to use inferior gear, instead of making them pay more to get what should be standard fare... if they need it.

in reply to "I figure killing 350,000 innocent Japanese civilians counts at least partly towards compensation. " ..................... If you believe in an 'eye for an eye.' type retribution I suppose so. I'd prefer to see them pay in hard cash.... Aussie solders are currently protecting japanese in Iraq. Apparently the disarmament of Australia and other countries in the region ( mainly through buy back ) has largely been funded with japanese money. Cruelly ironic to those who lost loved ones fighting them in WW2.

Browning have had some rifles made in Japan for yonks. They do a damn fine job too. Nicely trained those Japanese workers. Highly motivated and clean too. Asian products are getting better and better though some China stuff is still of fairly rough agricultural quality. The Japanese in general have the highest hygene standards in the world bar none. Their meticulous nature is to be admired. Their past leadership is not. Once re-educated they have proven themselves as worthy allies. That said I wish our leaders could make them pay, as a nation, compensation to the families that lost loved ones due to their deceitful/ malevolent WW2 actions. In Oz some families and persons never recovered from fighting the beggars and many are still suffering indignities due to those actions. Still I like the rifle they made for me.

in reply to "I am still waiting for one valid reason to be posted by the base community that supports and vindicates ones action for leaving a fellow jumper that is either dead, dying, or injured. " ....................... Just wondering ....does all this mean that some wreel secret base sites have base jumpers buried nearby? or the odd bit of bone sticking out of the ground?

in reply to "Pretend you are the leader of a country' ................. Do we got lots of large nukes in this country? Enough already ...where's the button?...why is not it pushed?...... here gimme... ahh that's what all that work was for ... hey why didn't they go off? You mean they don't really work at all those nuke things? creating peace through deterant ..yeah right. Never has so much power been wasted by so few for so long . Ok lets start agin.......this time without da BS .. Once upon a time .................... kaboom ...ohh that one worked... here try this one it's not so rusty... booooom .....arright it worked too. the yank ones are better the rusky ones aree duds and these ones go off in the fire....fzzzzzz..pop This world is just like little kids playing with old bullets and rusty handgerns. This is close to a redneck conversation I heard the other day ........and the day before that.

in reply to "Um...what exactly do you mean by "low" and by "jump", Trae? " ................ err.....I've picked up that you have BASE instincts . as in do you base jump? ( i wouldn't normally ask but this IS the ask RL thread so..... I asked )

in reply to "Ordinary negligence - yes, the waiver usually protects the DZ. Gross negligence or recklessness - no, that is generally not protected by the waiver. " .................................... apparently you can't contract out of negligence... ordinary or gross. (the distinction is ???) came out funny in engleesh but no contract legally allows some-one to perpetrate negligent acts on people in their care ...under 'Duty of Care'

in reply to "I prefer the idea of LASERS." ........................................ Alright....that'd be cool for night combat. pulsed laser blasts. In the day a paint grenade or ten would sort those tail biters.

Dear RL , How many low jumps have you done?

Put me on that load

YES. learnin' to dodge them bullets before they get where you was. Cheers mate

...and the steralised H2O. I've heard coloidal silver works just fine. Who-ever said MRE's don't taste good just aint been hungry. ps Don't forget to pack a woman or two