Trae

in reply to "I for one sleep more soundly knowing that our military is awake and on guard..and I thank them for there service. " .................... Here here ...there seems little denying that without the US forces having their international go for the last 100years or so the world would be a very different place. We'd all most likely be dragging ploughs for either Hitler Stalins or Mao's descendants. Of course some things may be beyond even the power of the US. Some effective UN type action appears to be the only way for this world to get over the destructo bit. Hopefully the US won't make an enemy of every-one like Hitler managed to do . Lots of us out here care about you guys & gals but are concerned about you going it alone like you tend to do. Running railroad may have worked in the wild west but this world's bigger than any one nation. Take care and give some back thanks.

in reply to "Maybe Trae is just full of shit and has a personal axe to grind! Then again, maybe not. Just something to think about. ................................. Sounds like a nicely rounded view. & you're right I don't want to be too specific for various reasons . Stratostar's comments have helped keep this in perspective a bit. Sparky boy's seem kinda inflammatory. (Sheesh.... try for a chat get a ball basher.) Axes to grind .....??? here's one or two & hey I want to keep this discussion in general thanks (as in general skydiving discussions )even though some appear intent on getting at the specifics. (you fiesty fellows you ) That would be a very different little talk ...one I'd prefer to be having in more caring and effective company. *The continued sucking in of fresh faced newbies into questionable behaviour IS a concern of mine. *The plethora of illicit drugs and their distributors within the sport is . It appears a number of highly active skydivers support their adrenaline habit by feeding others their personal poison. Skydiving looks like a ready made distribution network to these people with a steady stream of new customers . The illegal nature of this automatically creates secret but not necesarily hidden behaviour. There MAY be a place for illegal drugs in our society but I've got a strong feeling it's NOT while skydiving. Here's a bit more secret shyte ...take it anyway you like....they did DZ Prostitution & secret little groupies One night , I was sitting at a DZ fire late at night and a bloke nudged me in the ribs and impatiently said “come on mate it’s your turn “. I didn’t know what he was on about . He helpfully explained and pointed over to a tent . I passed . This guy happily took my turn and the next guy in line moved along and said “if you’re not in the queque don’t sit here.” I took his advice . One enterprising guy had taken to sharing his girlfriend around.for $$$$ every Saturday night to pay for his petrol and drinking.????. The worst form of such a group I became aware of was a group that appeared real good at picking up young girls. I wondered what these good looking girls saw in these older guys . The penny dropped when early one Sunday morn I saw a young woman wandering around lost ,in a daze , with only a torn top on. She’d done her first tandem the day before with a friend. She’d been drugged and apparently raped. I got her help in the form of a caring female friend. Later that day I was confronted by a few blokes who threatened me if I kept taking an interest in their behaviour. As a young person I felt helpless to do anything about this stuff. I just wanted to skydive not be a knight in shining armour. That DZ kinda lost its warm glow for me for a while at least.. As time progressed I got to see members/friends? of this group obtain positions of influence in the sport, some became tandem masters and instructors and I could guess how they got their influence and asserted their power….and it wasn’t through their skydiving skills. Safety to them meant not being found out . Of course not all places exhibit such traits. And in general such things are pretty thin on the ground as true professionalism replaces shonky shyte.. If it needs clarifying for any unbelievers then yes such behaviour is a definite minority. It tends to hide in the back blocks . The thing is such things are still there & in skydiving anything which increases the danger levels of an already inherently dangerous pastime are worth noting.... perhaps . Might affect you but most likely it won't. ps just another little long term survival tactic (and sort of a trade secret ) At a multi-aircraft operation listen to the different aircraft motors ..... the sweetest one with the least vibration is the one to jump if you've got a choice...the pro's will be using that one you may notice. otherwise get a slot near the door.

in reply to "That is the short list " ............................. hey

in reply to"You are so lucky to be alive right now but you don’t even realize it! They say that God protects old folks and fools, you clearly have someone upstairs looking out for you. Although I fear that he will eventually grow tired of saving your sorry ass. " .......................... AMEN..... Join the club ...no shortage of lucky beggars around this sport. At least you seem to be offering some worthwhile advice not just betting on his demise. GO VETER ! (or whoever you are) show us that just about anyone (with a bit of luck ) can live and learn or is that the other way round? (ps I'm still winning money betting on your survival so don't go in......arright????)

in reply to " You guys just want to spoil all of our fun. " ................................. If I can I will & I thought coppers had no sense of humour.

in reply to " don't know why, but I feel like I should be more sad about actually losing him than I am. " ........................... It is possible to actually feel good when some-one dies and not in a bad/warped way. if you believe in the indestructibility of spirit then you may see that it was time for him to move on. His ship is sailing for a distant horizon we can't see . Often people only feel sad because of their own loss not that of the deceased. He may have given you everything he had to give hence your lack of extreme sadness. Feel good about your true feelings ..they show a caring person underneath .

in reply to "I just read your profile and your occupation fits. " .................... So tell me something I don't know. As you appear to insist on being personal.... I suppose in your 30 years of skydiving you've never seen some-one try and cover up a mistake? or blame some-one else for their own deficiencies .?? Perhaps you could share something from your own experiences ...........perhaps not.

Driving down a very deserted outback road one day I came across an empty patrol car. Nearby was an overturned small vehichle with several dead bodies in it... a couple of them children. After a bit of a look around I saw a police officer in the middle distance walking off down the road. I drove along to him to see if he was OK. He waved me on. I'll never forget the look on his face or the feeling of distress emanating from that very large man. Turned out he knew the victims well (?). Police officers have to soak up what is often the worst of things in our society for low pay and shytful conditions. When they're not victimising innocent people they have my utmost respect.

6 in 2900. Took an instamatic on my first one (after a bag lock at 49 jumps)

This could turn into a ride at the show. 100ft base into foam powderphluff would be easy compared to this. What a guy! and thanks for looking after him Jesus

in reply to "Come on...let me have it! Bring it on! I'm trying to thicken my skin...so give me your best. " .......................... said with a sneer... "I've seen used toilet paper fly better than you girl .... and smell better too. ... here go wipe yourself..." handed crumpled tissue (Skin thickening exercise ---try and imagine it said for real at the interview panel of world famous skydivers when you're going for that dream skydiving job you always wanted.) Ps I've never spoken to a woman like that (before...sorry )but perlease .......TAKE A BATH..... you're freakin' my dog and he's 1/2 a mile away. no really no........

in reply to "Do you know of any injuries or deaths caused by rigging errors or mistakes made by instructors? If so you should be willing to share with us or you are part of the secrecy conspiracy you keep refereeing to. Since you have been at it for over 20 years, what part of skydiving do you like. " ....................... I like the pretty white clouds OK? Secret conspiracy???? You want more personal ? ...PM. or back to the subject From reading the previous code of ethics a bit closer it seems to me that there are a few cross-over points. No 3 states . Act honestly , fairly and properly in dealings with students , other parachutists and with the general public. no 7 Refrain from intentionally injuring the professional reputation of any other member , parachuting organisation or the Federation. no9 "Encourage and assist others to develop good attitudes , skills and knowledge relating to the sport." Hypothetically (if you must) say I was privy to a bit of info about a murderously incompetent rigger ....,if I was to get fully with no3 then no 7 could get in the way a bit. And no 9 would take a back seat and stay baffled with BS. For me no 4 is a given ... I've never told a lie ...... haven't had to.

in reply to "I am indeed "interested" in this subject matter, and will accept your "invitation" to discuss. .............................. Cheers and a bit of applause. Perhaps some overly sensitive viewers have something to hide As for the tandem incident you describe ..no I haven't seen it but it does sound like it's in the realm of this topic. I've got a few incidents on tape (one or two with myself in them ) that also qualify. Perhaps I'm restricted by the code of ethics from sharing these. (refrain refrain ) Myself & others learnt from them and all concerned had to wear a fair bit of ribbing as well. ..luckily no tears. Thing is it wasn't hidden. Quite the opposite. What I've seen more recently is people wiping over their mistakes . pretending like they didn't happen. not sharing them so others could learn...altering the facts a bit. It's as if some less experienced people need to trick others into believing that they are better than they actually are. Several close calls on tracking dives where inexperienced people sort of nearly killed their mates and then the vid goes missing or didn't work. Sure I could be more specific but once again the code & perhaps even the law (it's not libel if it's true ) sort of retrains sorry refrains me. I'm more interested in getting the weird hide mistake behaviour a bit more out in the open...ie secrets. not conspiratorial or ??? like some appear too eager to imply/state ..... simply small time hide the mistake behaviour from incompetents and inexperienced types. Sometimes the incompetents might be running the shop. Filthy crap when this is related to fatalities or serious injuries . eg dumping a reserve to cover a body when the main or nothing would've done just as well............& yes this does happen & quite a bit over time. Point the finger? ....I'd prefer to talk about it and perhaps even come up with some ways of recognising such behaviour and exposing it as dysfunctional. This could improve on that 10 -15% just a bit.

in reply to "You do. I do. Every APF member does." ................. Gotta love that word ...."refrain" Also gotta get me a dictionary. I like how close it is to retrain.

in reply to "It appears there is not much in his life he is happy with" ................. Personal woffle (B& CS )aside ,I find the subject matter at issue interesting and hope to attract others interested in discussing such matters. If this is a taboo subject then perhaps that says a lot more than my little so called 'rants.' The 85 - 90% of incidents due to personal error also points to the remaining 10-15% being for other reasons. It is within this 'other' that there exists the possibility of other people being responsible for the victims death or injury.eg reserve packing errors. To pretend that mistakes don't happen is To attempt to cover them up is criminal. To believe that such things don't happen is naive. To keep such info hidden is ????????j Perhaps unethical perhaps something else. Does any-one actually operate under a code of ethics? "Shake the bush & see what falls out." "Don't let it land onya" "Look there's spiders near the top catching flies." "It's all right sonny ..them crows"ll get 'em when their nice an' fat."

Where do ethics/secrets/safety and even basic human decency get compromised in our sport? There appears to be a strong tendency within our little skydiving world to minimise some of the true reality of incidents....... fatal and otherwise. Blaming the injured /deceased or implying it was their fault often seems to be the first option. At what point are basic human rights and dignities compromised by the requirement to not bring our sport/business into disrepute? As the sport has transformed into more of a business for some do the financial imperatives sometimes over-ride the need for open sharing of safety information and incident reports? Is it possible for ethical sporting requirements to cross over into irresponsible and even negligent keeping of secrets.? A possible example of this is safety information and incident reports that are distributed for 'members only ' use.

Consciously redirected tantric transmutation eg saying PLEASE ! ( and thank you )

Is this a complete list? I noticed that the psychopaths /sociapaths got let off a bit...or are they the ones who ticked em all?

inreply to "you do it everytime.....and so am I right now" ................ Your reply is a good example of why ! Cheers ???

in reply to "how about that? We could swap places" ......................... Have you got a real nice car and fast friends to go with the deal? I'm considering it. I've heard there is nothing in the world like those friendly Finnish ladies

BSBD? Bull Shyte By Drongo's

in reply to " - he also states I will be laughed at because of this post. If that is your opinion and you find my safety choices funny Id just like to remind you of the no pull fatalities, the low pulls and the fact that I am still very much a baby in this sport. " ....................... Just laugh back at them. they're funny and can be dangerous encouragng people to dump lower. I've known many an experienced skydiver that loves to dump high. Tandems do it all the time or should. You get to fly around under canopy and stay in the air much longer getting heaps more value for money especially if you're getting out at 14000'. Having all that extra time to deal with any malfunction also improves your survival chances. Deploying 10 seconds off the deck suits a lot of people but not all. Skydiving wingsuiters in general dump higher because they've got more things to do after opening. In general dumping higher allows a novice to relax a lot more enabling them to find their own comfort level not be forced to emulate the lowest puller. Being too casual about altitude watching can only lead one way. In this sport it doesn't hurt (usually) if you err on the side of caution. Just remember to let people know you'll be deploying high. ps if you're good at altitude watching you'll always have a place on big loads as a sure fire safety valve.

Try frying them (in 1st cold pressed olive oil) until they just go brown and crispy. add some salt (just a tiny bit) and yuummmmmeeeee

in reply to "The reaction to the gravitational force of the Earth on a skydiver is the gravitational force exerted by the skydiver on the Earth. " ............................. Doea this mean that as skydivers we are dragging the earth into a new orbit? Because wingsuiters stay in the air longer does that mean they are dragging the earth more than freeflyers? Because most skydiving is done in the day-time are we slowly dragging the earth into the sun?