Zennie

Heh. I'm in the same boat. I started working on the drills that I did for sit stand in my head down: left 360, right 360, left cartwheel, right cartwheel, forward flip, backflip. 360s I'm starting to do well, and I can pretty much stop a spin, though I'm finding that I'm still getting used to visually finding headings upside down. Cartwheels in a HD ... um... well.... OK let's try flips! . Foward flip went OK but the backflip... nope. As far cartwheeling into the HD, yeah what 3flier says... really explode the legs out & hold them. I'm still a little wobbly on the forward/backward plane when I get there, but the cartwheel stops. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Heh. Well like most great experiements you wind up with a big mess but a lot of good information! "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Lots of good info Derek. Thanks! Didn't realize that's what you had planned on the ride up today. That's actually a very good experiment, because my downsizing plan was going to include maximizing my reserve size. I think I"ll have to reconsider that in light of your test. Do you have any sense for what a rough maximum difference in square footage would be to not have this phemonenon so readily appear? For example, my current setup is a Jedei 136 with a PD 160 reserve. I wouldn't think these would be so far off as to cause that sort of problem (at least not to an unusual degree) but I could be wrong. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Absolutely. And I think most skydivers share your view. At least by my rough count of the people I know at the DZs I frequent. I'd guess maybe 10 - 15% of the people probably ever seriously consider learning how to swoop. Sure lots of the non-swoopers are on moderately loaded ellipticals, but most land them straight in. At least from what I see. YMMV. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Um, boy, that's a toughie... Do I get my eyes clawed out by rabid skunks or go to the Britney movie? Hmmmmmm..... Skunks please! "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

"I want a girl with a short skirt and a looooooooonnnnngggg.... jacket!" "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Yeah I watched it too. Y'all got robbed. Did you see the judges as the camera panned across them? Man they looked like they all needed Industrial Strength Ex-Lax. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Well I've been on a Primus kick lately, so my car CD changer currently has.... Primus - Brown Album Primus - Sailing The Seas of Cheese Tool - Undertow Pennywise - Straight Ahead Rammstein - Sheinschucht Primus - Tales From The Punchbowl K so I'm a little weird in my musical tastes. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

I'm noticing a pattern here... "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

My thoughts and best wishes go out to you & Tim. Try to keep a positive spirit. It's the best medicine at times like this. I know all too well the life of a diabetic. My wife Liz is a MODY (adult onset insulin dependent type II) diabetic. We have a very good friend who is a brittle type I and had to have a kidney transplant. She thought she was going to die as well but is fine now. So things can work out. Lia & I had a scare in Las Vegas about 2 years ago. We were at dinner and she started showing signs that she was low. First she started staring blankly, not responding to anything. Then she went into convulsions. We called the paramedics and it took them about 5 minutes to show up. Felt like and eternity to me and all I could think of was "She can't die now. Not like this." I honestly have never been that scared and felt that helpless in all my life. It's a sickening feeling. I feel for both of you. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Currants are like little mini-raisins. According to Merriam Webster online, sute is "the hard fat about the kidneys and loins in beef and mutton". Raisins & fat. Nice combination. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

That would be me. Damn RW suit! "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

No we wouldn't. Just kidding! "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

What no red? C'mon it's Valentines Day! "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Whoa! Back the truck up! I honestly think people aren't as far apart as it may seem. I think the problem here, which isn't unusual, is a matter of semantics. Specifically, the word "safe" is a very, very subjective term. I think Lisa is viewing the word "safe" in terms of non-risk. And of course, skydiving isn't safe when viewed that way. You can have lots of experience and do everything "right", as she points out, and still die. Lisa Gallagher is a good example of that. I think Derek is viewing the word "safe" in terms of acceptable risk. If I perform a thoughtful, informed, risk calculus and the odds are stacked largely in my favor, then that activity would be considered "safe". And I believe his assesment that skydiving is "safe" is similarly correct... if one trains, is patient, studies, is disciplined and uses good common sense then the odds of a severe injury are dramaticaly reduced. Look at any military/paramilitary (i.e. SWAT, DEA) group. They are trained extensively to go into what we would consider high-risk... even unsafe... conditions and get out relatively unscathed. Do injuries/fatailities happen? Sure. Are they as high as the would be if even the average solidier/cop went into the situation? Absolutely not. So I think what Lisa is trying to say is that this sport has a significant amount of inherent risk, and we'd be deluding ourselves to say that it doesn't. I think Derek's trying to say that that risk can be substantially reduced through training and common sense. At least that's my take, and I would agree with both of them. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Good one! "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

I was debating whether to post the specifics of this incident a second time, but I think it's appropriate here. This is basically a cut & paste of my post under the Canopy Advice thread. I'm posting it again to maybe get the message out to some other people. I presume he is still in intensive care, and if he's made it this far, chances are probably decent that he'll live. However, the day after the incident he had a cardiac arrest that they were fortunately able to revive him from. This jumper, for reasons that are unknown to all the jumpers I talked to, decided to try a 180 hook turn for the first time at somewhere between 100-200 feet on a canopy loaded around 1.4. He impacted still in a double-front riser dive. The result? Both legs broken in several places (including both femurs), a ruptured spleen, a damaged kidney (which may never function again), a damaged liver and a ruptured aorta (that he didn't bleed to death is nothing short of a miracle). And those are only the injuries I know of. I went out to where he hit and there were literally impact marks several inches deep in the ground. It was easy to figure out which divot belonged to his feet, knees elbows and face. Made all of us sick. I'm glad I wasn't there for the actual incident. People like Derek, Lisa, Chuck and other people with thousands more jumps are valuable resources who possess information which can literally save our lives... if we put our egos on the shelf, be patient and heed their advice. Please people be careful and don't try any new radical maneuvers close to the ground. Try them up high and then work gradually downward. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

BWA-HAHAHAHA!!!! Good one! "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Can you say "beach jumps"? I knew ya could. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

My condolences to his family & friends. Blues forever Chris. BSBD "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Since a lot of skydivers happen to also SCUBA, how many of y'all would be interested in doing a sky-scuba diver trip to Cozumel? No firm dates yet or anything, just tossing it out for feedback. Might be an opportunity to get together and maybe get our whuffo spouse/sig-os involved as well (my wife SCUBAs for example). I'd be willing to organize the thing and try to work out air/hotel/dive operator deals if there was enough interest. A bunch of crazy skydivers at Carlos & Charlies would be a sight to behold. And if anyone has any suggestions as far as good dive operators go I'm all ears. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

You just had to pick the weekend my brother was getting married didn't you? "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Sorry to hear that dude, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do. I'm glad we were able to jump together when you came down for the gathering. Maybe someday if you get back in we'll hook up. In the meantime, best of wishes & bloos!

Really? Then how did I manage to get my brand new Jumpbubble suit this late-January? There's a lot of rumor-mongering but the fact is that Emily is still turning out suits even though the website is down. I have her contact info if anyone wants to get in touch with her. And for the record I absolutely love mine. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

I was talking to Bill Lee about this one night and he called it and out of sequence deployment. Are these both describing the same thing or are there subtle differences between the two? "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."