Zennie

Was that a hint? I've flown all three... Jedei, Vengeance & Cobalt in the 135 class (loaded about 1.4). I have the most jumps on the Jedei, obviously. I demoe'd the Cobalt for two weeks, about 10 jumps. And I have 2 jumps on a Vengeance. Unfortunately, the brakes were set a little short on the Cobalt demo so I really can't speak too much on riser carves. The canopy opened and flew very nice, though I had to steer the openings. I always felt in control, but I could also zip it around if I wanted to. Flare was very smooth. Very good with braked turns, not divey. The Vengeance also had nice openings, and like the Cobalt, I generally had to steer it. Toggles were controlled and not twitchy, but very responsive. Front riser carves generated lots of speed. Braked turns were divey, it would take some practice before you'd want to try it close to the ground as an avoidance maneuver. Flare was huge. Very easy to land. The Jedei opens very slow & smooth, but has serious, serious oversteer on the riser inputs while the brakes are stowed. I usually let it find the heading it wants, and then do a few short taps on the risers to get it to take a heading. Like the Vengeance, the Jedei will generate serious speed on front riser carves. The recovery arc is pretty long. I'll eat up around 500 feet doing a really hard 180. Toggle turns are snappy (but not "twitchy") but eat up lots of altitude. Braked turns are fairly controlled. The flare has taken quite a bit of getting used to, because the majority of the power is deep in the stroke. It's probably the hardest to land of the three canopies, but boy does it surf when you hit it right. Both airlocked canopies are very solid in the wind. I've jumped the Jedei on several gusty days and hardly felt a bump. I jumped the Vengeance on a windy day as well (welcome to Houston) and it was equally solid. They can be a pain to gather up on windy days though. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

How bout a brewcher? "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Is Mike up for organizing a new dz.com record attempt or two? "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

That is a pretty good summation. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Heh, this is taking on the flavor of an RSL debate. And no, I'm not taking any of this personally or feeling like I'm in a flame war. It's a very good, thought-provoking discussion. The only thing I disagree with is pulling with someone underneath you. If I have a sniveller or a high speed mal things could get really ugly. As far as citing my authority for the backtrack method, I'd have everyone take a look at the safety chapter in Pat Works' "The Art of vRW". "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Just so we're on the same page, are you saying the only way one should track away from a freefly dive when starting from a headup position is by starting with a 1/2 cartwheel? I didn't want to get into this, but the big argument I've heard against the 1/2 cartwheel is you go from a moderate head up speed to a fairly fast head down. Sort of a reverse cork. That's why I shy away from it. So my options are, flip straight to my belly (cork) or drop into a backfly and glide out of it. One of my coaches advocates the second method as does Pat Works. Now as far as the odd case of someone dumping early, I think my odds are better in a flat track away (even if I don't see them) than bearing down on them in a head down -- which is what you'd be doing if you 1/2 cartwheeled it. Maybe the difference in opinion is due to the realtively small size of freefly jumps. A "big-way" in a freefly jump is 4-ish. A *really* big way is 10 or more. In RW the sky can be filled with other jumpers who, if out along the vertical axis will most likely be low. Thus the concern for those below. Since you said earlier you don't freefly, maybe this is a case of one person viewing the problem through RW glasses and another viewing it through freefly glasses. The environments are just different. FYI, I don't start on my back tracking away on RW jumps (though I do a slow barrel roll right before pulling). "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Happy skybirthday to you! Happy skybirthday to you! Happy skybiiiirrrrthday miz skybzatch! Happy skybirthday to yoooouuuuuu!!!! And many more.....

Quite the opposite in freefly. Corking is your biggest danger. If you get in the habit of starting on your belly you present a very grave risk to your fellow freefliers who are above you (as well as yourself) cuz one of these days you're gonna cork into someone. And again, I'm not talking about a half cartwheel here. You're not corking and if you really want to clear what's below you first that's the way to do it. But in all truthfulness the real danger comes from both places. In freefly you are, as nacmac notes, in a 3 dimensional swarm. At any give time there can be people above, below, in front and behind you. So at breakoff time you need to clear all of your airspace completely. So it really doesn't matter which you clear first (well, behind you obviously first), so long as you clear it all. It's also another reason why freefliers will generally break higher... around 5000 ... to get enough time to slow down and clear their airspace. If you were on a freefly and just turned, looked below and dumped, I *guarantee* you won't be invited on any more freefly jumps. So if you get anywhere in freefly, you know this. I venture a guess that the same behavior would be met with equal disdain in the RW world. Even if you're conscientious about making sure no one is below you are you willing to bet your life that the other people are doing the same for you? Nothing personal to my fellow fliers, but I'm not. The people above me are as much a risk to me as I am to those below. IMHO, every responsible skydiver, be it RW or freefly, should check his or her airspace both above and below before dumping. Someone else said it before me but it's true... better to be safe and alive than right & dead. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Dunno. I'm just sort of the advertising guy. Levin & the other more experienced freefliers will probably manage size & safety based on who shows up. This is sort of an informal thing. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Just so there's no misunderstanding, I'm not saying the 1/2 cartwheel is wrong. I'm just presenting another alternative. There are experienced freefliers at our DZ that favor both approaches. The backfly transition works best for me. ramon likes the 1/2 cartwheel. The big thing is not to have a dramatic change in vertical speed, such that you cork (or scream down) into another flier. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Actually it does. To a degree... Read Pat Works stuff. And I can verify it's correctness, I can fly in a relaxed backfly as fast (if not faster) as I can in a sit. That's the beauty of backflying. It has about the widest speed range of any body position. So I drop into a relaxed backfly, don't cork and gradually start backtracking away. It's a gradual thing. No sudden vertical speed changes. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

I personally think the rule should be universal, but at least in freeflying, since you have people potentially both above and below you it's important to make sure you have clear airspace both above and below. So I generally start the first half on my back and clear above and then flip over and clear below. If you start on your belly you run the risk of corking into any freefliers above you. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Yeah I'll definitely vouch for him. He's one of the few people in Houston who actually flies a VX the way they're supposed to be flown.

A couple of people have said that the line trim "fix" makes the riser pressure a lot harder than it used to be. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

After he got back I mentioned you and he kind of gave me an "I don't know" look and then I described you and his eyes lit up and he goes "Oh Corn Fed! Yeah we had fun!" "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

A picture of Galveston Bay? I don't get it... "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

You realize that you have now doomed any dz.com record attempt that we might try between now & Perris' cuz I'm gonna funnel every exit and take out every formation. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Congrats Pammi & Merrick! Keep me posted on how those headhunters are helping. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

With all the talk of big ways and the subject of FF records popping up, would anyone be interested in participating in a freefly big way skills camp/ dz.com record attempt at Spaceland? Levin Jackson has offered to help organize. If we get enough interested people we'll try to set something up. The only definites right now is we want to wait for ramon to get back so he can play with us and we'll have it as something separate from the April Freefly festival already scheduled. Thoughts? "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

With all the talk of big ways and the subject of FF records popping up, would anyone be interested in participating in a freefly big way skills camp/ dz.com record attempt at Spaceland? Levin Jackson has offered to help organize. If we get enough interested people we'll try to set something up. The only definites right now is we want to wait for ramon to get back so he can play with us and we'll have it as something separate from the April Freefly festival already scheduled. Thoughts? "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Yeah I was kinda wondeing what kind of main that is. The label almost looks like Sabre2 lettering.... "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

What's on it? "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Now you ladies don't take this the wrong way, but I've noticed that a *lot* of women take it up after breaking up with their boyfriend/spouse. I have my theories for why, but I'll spare everyone the psychobabble. Me personally? It was on my list of things to do for a long time. I just finally had the time & money to do it. I had bungee jumped a few months before so I was pretty sure going into it that I'd be hooked. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Nice rig. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

Sorry, wasn't clear about that. The second category, although airlocked ellipticals are probably in a category all their own. "Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."