SkyDekker

I did, they aren't relevant to the discussion. That many countries (and people) will justify their own behaviour, while decrying that same behaviour in others. See above.

Who said anything about defending. Hopefully for you, there will be les people around who will continually enjoy making fun of them or their perceived stupidity. How come I have not seen you mocking Mychal Judge. He was praying Jesus, please end this right now! God, please end this!, the moment he was killed. Would you care to display this open mockery, say in front of New York City fire house? Will your words be just as strong in front of them? Or, are you really nothing more than a typical internet commando?

You are comparing comparing differences in two societies in today's age with the same society in two different time periods. My argument is that different societies have different standards. I don't agree with the US discriminating against women and I don't agree with it in Saudi Arabia. Yes, the extent is different, but the premise is teh same, discrimination against women. Your "examples" all have to do with societal changes over time. I think they have been for the better. Just like I think the change in Saudi society to allow women to vote is a good one.

But why is the right to vote more important than the right to free speech?

Or you could do both... Property Tax is at it's basic form a wealth tax. The more expensive the house (asset) the higher the tax you pay on it.

Holy shit, Windsor. I've been lock step with most of the things you've posted here about religion, but this is petty, mean bullshit. The kid didn't go out one evening waving a bible and provoking someone into attacking him because he though Jesus would get his back... He walked out of a bible study and was attacked and killed. He had no tangible way to defend himself. He resorted to the only thing he had to work with, which was his faith. Even if you think his faith was misguided, there's no honor at all in being such a complete prick about it. Look, the dumb son of a bitch told someone pointing a gun at him that the gun would not work. It seems he was as wrong about that as he was about everything. Being too stupid to live is not a particularly sympathetic condition. The assailant should be put to sleep as a matter of course, but the deceased took a Darwinian approach to the encounter - with wholly predictable results. Wow, holier than thou certainly comes to mind. You don't need an "invisable friend" to know just a tiny bit about compassion. I hope you and those you love are perfect. Or at least that if they are not, you never post about it here.

Define extreme. the US has gender discrimination on the books. Society acceopts it as part of decency. Its all relative.

Yeah, that's the theoretical argument. In practice that will just never happen. Right, best to just give in without a fight. Well, he's right. In theory weapons will hold back an oppressive govt. But reality says, its not about the guns. I've been to too many shithole third-world countries where everyone has an automatic weapon and they can't stop an oppresive govt or warlord. Truth is, it's about leadership and the ability to motivate a large group of people with said guns. Guns by themselves you got a bunch of civillians with their large cashe rubbing their hands and muttering "c'mon Guv, take my guns". Totally useless for anything but a false sense of security and triumph. Bingo. And DaVince, I won't comment on the first two dates. They are so far in the past and technology has changed so much, they are nowhere near relevant. On the Battle of Athens. First of all, I think times have changed and even the Battle of Athens could not be repeated in today's day and age. Secondly I don't think a small scale example like that is repeatable on a national level. I know you will disagree with me, so I will just say now that we will have to agree to disagree.

+1

Yes. Then I guess this part was just a lie:

So is it about deterrence or is it about justice?

Yes most of American will do exactly that. The few who will not will be branded criminals or domestic terrorists and dealt with accordingly. You sitting at home with a stockpile of weapons will do absolutely nothing to change that.

Yeah, that's the theoretical argument. In practice that will just never happen.

Who said anything about clients? I have been to those conferences are industry conferences or even internal conferences. No clients involved. Likely the hotel won't let you bring in your own food. Secondly, placating the taxpayer never costs $0. Placating the taxpayer by defintion costs money. The more you want to placate them, the more money it is going to cost. My argument is finding the line between the two.

Would have been easier for you to read the rest of my post, but I guess that would have made your post less funny. Hey and next time you go to a restaurant, bring your own food, it would be cheaper. Oh sorry what? they won't let you? Wow, that funny post quickly lost any merit...

Once again I am in awe at the amount of anti-religious bigoty upon display here. You folks take the actions of one person, and then extrapolate it to the entire set of religious people/christians. Simply amazing. And even worse, some of you even express pleasure at the man's death in this manner. I'm disgusted. And the parallel could be drawn with those people who think that we skydivers are crazy for jumping out of airplanes, and then when one of friends dies from a malfunction, they gloat in messages attached to the newspaper blogs, saying things like "Well duh, what did they expect?". And we are all disgusted with such people for not understanding us, and their heartlessness at making fun of the death of one of our buddies. And here you folks are, doing the same thing. I now return this program to the stake-burning lion-feeding bigots. Fully agree with you John.

Just don't take my guns man...who cares about anything else...just don't take my guns....

So now we are back to it being a deterrence. We have gone from deterrence, to justice, to deterrence. We have gone from trying to mix emotional arguments into data points. You are behaving exactly like many people you argue against on the gun side of things. Don't think Kerry flip flopped this much.

There are quite a few people serving life sentences for marijuana possession. SO that little back peddle is moot. Another nice back peddle. First you say the death penalty is needed or it will open the floodgates. Now you state it isn't about deterrence at all, but about justice. You flip flop so much I am starting to think your name isn't JohnRich, but JohnKerry.

Uhmm, I was quoting somebody else. Would help if you responded to the person actually stating that. Though I am sure I could learn from a statisitcs course.

Yet you believe that if there was not a death penalty for murder, than murder would run rampant. You say so yourself in this post: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4192878#4192878

I don't think men and women can be "just friends", without any sexual tension.

Not at all, it is easier to pay a $16 muffin, cause that is what the catering costs in the most convenient hotel available than most other options. I have seen those options too. usually these "travesties" are "remedied" by starting an Human Resources led committee to establish suitable guidelines for proper catering standards and costs at business conferences. etc etc This will lead to hotel selections which add large transportation costs to get to them. Or, one of my favourites, travel rules stating the lowest fares always have to be selected. Which results in executives making $250 an hour (and up) wasting time on stopovers and layovers. But the policy looks good on paper.... Before you know it, the company has spent $500,000 in resources to make sure that muffins will now be bought at $12 per muffin. THAT is the problem in the public sector. Placating everybody costs more than a $16 muffin.

Its more like: More Executions, More Murders. Maybe if they used guns to do the executions it would reduce the murder rate. What do you think JR?

Because asking if soembody deserves to die has no bearing on whether someone is pro or con the death penalty. I am against the death penalty. However there are certainly situations in which I feel people deserve to die.