jenfly00

There are many problems, and I understand this issue has been around for centuries. Jefferson was deeply concerned about it. That doesn't mean it has remained constant in character. The system of government with judges riding roughshod over the legislature might have an ounce of credibility if they ever half way agreed on any profound issues of government. As it is it's just the opinion of a few old farts winning the day (and not the old farts in congress this time). Are you familiar with culling a breed? It's the old farts in the white house and congress that have culled or selected the appointed members of the judiciary for the traits they desire. They have culled for power and advantage rather than character and integrity. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

You're right! I mean, why bitch when you can just join the masses, right? Not everyone is in the position to fight the politics in the near-dictatorship that has become our country (yes, I liken it to a dictatorship when votes don't count because the president doesn't believe something is moral, (can't wait for the veto!)) However, just because someone doesn't intend to right the world by fighting bad politics, doesn't mean they have to agree with them or move! And, if enough people see things that are wrong and share their views with others (via "bitching") then hopefully others will at least question whether these things are right. Hell, if it gets bad enough, maybe it'll start a revolution! -A Absofukinlutely! Calling it bitching, dialogue, sharing philosophies or dreams, people talking and sharing their thoughts is a powerful tool. The 'love it or leave it' types would be frustrated beyond all imagination if they understood their emotional effluence is so simple minded and mean spirited it actually fuels the growing movement to prevent the "patriots" from destroying a great nation. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I'm wondering if the groom left skid marks leaving the area? ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

LOL! Well, it certainly is a more appealing offer than my last one.

LOL! Well, it certainly is a more appealing offer than my last one.

Only a select few of us actually get warned for this I've always had the hots for women that could deliver a back-handed slap using such high intilekshual phrases like "the ravages of self awareness". A marriage proposal might be in order here. Awwww, that's sweet, thank you. It really sounds like the two of you might be a much better match, however. Have fun remember ...safe sex! jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I didn't insult anyone? lol I just pointed out where the tampons were? sheesh people!! I have no problem with in your face Patriotism. I wish more people would do it. Nothing is wrong with the statement made on that bumper sticker and I whole heartedly agree with it. You don't have to like the fact that I agree. I just do. That's me :) Many more people agree as well they just don't have the balls to say it in this here forum. Because they loose sleep at night over what people think of them. I don't. So I proudly agree. If you think I am immature because of that it's o.k.. I don't mind.. Puppet strings every where... Rhino You should count your blessings that you aren't overly burdened with the ravages of self-awareness. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Even if we consider "fixing" it to be removing the ultra right neo-McCarthyite "patriots" that are destroying our beautiful nation??? jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I would hope this message would reach some on the ultra right. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I don't know what to think of that other than it sounds over the top. A person is their looks, their personality, their emotional makeup, their intellect, their empathy, their morals. The whole package. Some is easy to recognize right away, like fitness or appearance. Others take time to learn. So physical compliments occur much sooner than the other stuff. And to compliment someone on the more abstract stuff too early in a relationship is an insult or attempt to manipulate. You just can't expect someone sincere to compliment your personality until they really are exposed to it. To minimize any of those items is a loss in my book. And to say they don't care about looks is just another facet of being hung up on looks. Now, if someone says you're pretty, it's a compliment. But if they only comment about looks and never bring up other things over time, like how well you treat or care about people, or how nice it is to talk about things with you, or that it's fun to be together, etc. Then that would become annoying. In any case, "skinny" is not necessarily pretty. But "fit" surely is. Nothing wrong with a sincere compliment. However, the pervasive social custom is to judge women by how they look. The first thing to roll out of anyones's mouth upon meeting a friend's wife or girlfriend is a comment about how she looks. It is this focus that undermines and belittles the value of women. I'm in complete agreement that fitness is attractive. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Is not accurate. Muscle and fat are two different things. In terms of work load on the heart, they pretty much are. In this respect, the muscle bound guy just as unhealthy as someone morbibly obese. jen That's really not true. Fat is atherogenic....leads to atherosclerosis, which leads to coronary artery disease, peripheral vascular disease, etc. Muscle does not do this. Central obesity is the most unhealthy, but also the easiest fat to mobilize--fat around internal organs. Fat on your butt and thighs aren't as bad. Muscle mass is by far preferable to fat mass... linz Outside my area, I've heard middle aged muscle bound guys and the seriously serious athletes have HUGE hearts and dangerously inefficient pumping action in middle age ? I've heard it compared to the seriously obese. Is this just urban legend ...or something made up by envious fat people? jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Damn well said!!!! jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

How did it start? I really don't know. Like everyone, I wanted to be attractive and popular. Vomiting the occasional large mean actually seemed a reasonable cure for a bit of culinary indiscretion. Somehow I got all wrapped up in it. The realization and cure came about through a long, indirect and circuitous route ...feminist studies I became deeply involved in women's issues in college ...how we were viewed, treated and how we conducted our lives. Over a period of time, I came to realize that, as women, we had to assume some responsibility for perpetuating the view that our value was tied to our looks. I started to examine my life. One of the eye openers were comments I heard a woman in her 60's make concerning the years of her life she had wasted shopping for, discussing, reading about, applying and purchasing products like makeup, skin care, wrinkle remover, diet aids, clothing styles, hair styles, shoes ...the list seems pretty much endless. I started really listening to the discussion of my female friends and co-workers and it pretty much centered on the stuff above (My god!, were we actually that shallow?!?. My first major 'insight' came from the realization that at the end of my life, I didn't want to come to the realization that I had wasted years and years of precious life concerned about just the right foundation, eyeliner or shoe style. yada, yada, yada ...the last ten years have been a most incredible journey. I have made great strides in appreciating me for who I am and not for who society thinks I should be. Today, compliments like "you're so pretty" truly annoy me. Men who focus their comments on 'how beautiful' I am tell me they aren't very interested in who I am. I'm no longer the popular, polite gal that everybody likes, for my views and actions have become rather strange and threatening to those who spend their lives dancing the tribal dance. On the plus side, I am more at peace with who I am, overall happier, more independant and the quality of my relationships has substantially improved. No longer do I choose men because they reflect and reinforce my need to be attractive ...and I've found there are men who genuinely appreciate a woman being who she is. No doubt. I've learned to spot eating disorders based on personality as much as body size. Denial is a powerful tool. Couple that with the overwhelmingly positive feedback for being so attractive and you get women who are in complete denial and those who realize their problem but consider it a small price to pay for so much gain. Sigh. I would really like to argue that issue ...but you are right. I like my body. It's healthy, not fat, not thin, active and flexible ...and I enjoy the occasional moment in front of the mirror coming out of the shower, but as you said in another post, it's hard to break with our conditioning ...or even be aware of it. Sorry for the long response (and potential hijack). jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I used to be quite insulted by similar comments. I was slim, trim and athletic and while I was blind to it at the time, I had an eating disorder. I thought nobody knew ...they did and would occasionally make comments like "you need to eat more". I considered them fat, lazy slobs who were jealous Looking back to this time of my life (13 years ago), I understand their comments were well intended and perhaps even helped me to come to terms with my problem. The incidence of eating disorders is quite high ...particularly with women. It has been estimated that perhaps one in four women in the US under the age of 40 ( one in three, under age 30) have significant eating disorders at some time in their lives. Some don't eat, some secretly binge and purge (or compensate with insane amounts of exercise). I'm not saying you have an eating disorder. I don't know you, but if you get these comments rather frequently ... jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Is not accurate. Muscle and fat are two different things. In terms of work load on the heart, they pretty much are. In this respect, the muscle bound guy just as unhealthy as someone morbibly obese. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I haven't even applied for women-only scholarships, I mentioned that I wasn't much for affirmative action. However, I have SEEN that I am treated differently because of my sex, and I DO keep on working regardless. But, what I said was that I can SEE why these things are out there for minorities, women, etc. Women are still not equal to men as far as society is concerned. It'd be great to give them incentive to reach further. Yeah, it did sound a bit harsh. A better statement would have been as women, we need to get over ourselves. We've lived for some many decades with women this, women that, women only, women whatever that the very appearance of a source of funding reserved for a male struck you as odd and , by inference, inappropriate. I am sorry you have such a problem the opinions of others and constantly seek to insult people. Hehe, yeah. Thanks, pass. A little too much estrogen for me I don't feel I need to "get over myself" at all. I do not think ask for anything extra for my gender, but I don't want to be excluded because of it, either. My problem with a scholarship for men is that it is exclusive of the group that is already behind in big business, politics, etc., etc. For me, it's time to let this stuff go and move on Like I said, i'm not much for affirmative action, but I try to understand why these types of scholarships are out there. For this one, I really could not see why. I don't think my not seeing this warrants a "get over yourself." I view AA a most necessary social adjustment who's time is essentially over. Trouble is, women under 40 spent every day of our lives with it and some of us have come to accept the extra considerations as something that will continue through all time. AA was a temporary tool, not a goal. Now, I don't know if these thoughts apply to you or not. I've read some most impressive posts of yours but have to admit, this one caught me a bit off guard. Peace, jen -A ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I have come to realize that one of the reasons women are finding acceptance in today's society difficult is the ever continuing 'we are special and deserve more' attitude. I can understand why men are tired of that crap. Get over yourself. Inequality oppresses all involved. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I wouldn't try.. I would just do it.. Instead I avoid those situations to begin with. Preventive maintenance. If we are at the wffc, and some asshat decides to lite up a flag in front of me he's going down. You would bring violence to a drop zone over your political beliefs!?!?!?! Amazing. Aside from that, could some one turn up the air conditioning? The testosterone smell if getting really bad in here. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I think she's a 'booty call' kind of gal. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

See the bolded comment - I'd say calling someone inbred at best, and incestuous at worst would count as a personal attack... For pity's sake. Let's see if I got this right. You read something you didn't like (an comment unappreciative of the old guard conservatives and their repetitive cries), get miffed and provide an ...alternative interpretation of my words in hopes of moderator wrath. Big ones, dude. Perhaps you should re-read the line. Jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Beautifully said!

Full oratorical splendor, eh? "A friend chose a relationship. Allow her that choice and privacy from the uninvited sword wielding of your "truth"." 'Truth' is frequently wielded like a sword. Someone who is having issues with men in general decides she needs to be truthful with her friend about the guy she's dating. Being 'truthful' with the friend you would like to date concerning her boyfriend's actions. Truth does not serve an absolute good. I would be truthful with a situation where I viewed a clear and present danger. I would be truthful in an open discussion if my friend asked my advice. I would, however, respect her privacy, her right and ability to make her own judgments and decisions rather than gallop up wielding my sword of truth and slice through her privacy because I possessed a 'truth' that must be used. Blindness to them, apparently. Mike, spend a life as a woman in our society. Some women live their lives setting situations so men can 'rescue' them. Some men (most, probably) spend their lives in anticiapation of fullfilling their tribal role by coming to the rescue. I am not the former and do not respect the latter. Nowhere does a man say "I'm reinforcing my masculine role in the tribe by being considerate of your inability to handle everyday problems", but there is an element of it present. The question is, do you know you? :) We all need to re-examine our attitudes and actions if we are to reach a fair and just society. On the original issue, there are situations where I would choose to intrude and carve off a slice or two of 'truth'. For the most part, however, I would accept my friend's decisions as valid for her. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Did ya miss the part about it being voted on?? it wasn't voted by congress this was voted on my the people of austin. It was the democratic process that resulted in this. the people of austin voted...and it fell on the side of not wanting second hand smoke. Pay attention, darling. My points were a followup to calls for banning smoking outdoors. Did you miss that part?? jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

What their desire is has nothing to do with my being truthful? After all, we are “true” friends. And so is being truthful! You are not telling them what to do or even passing judgment. It does not matter nor does it have any relevance on being a true friend and being truthful. That would be pretty hard to do since they have you in their lives as a “true” friend. As for the “decisions” part, I agree, that is up to them to do what they want. Sounds like you use 'truth' like a drunk used a lamp post ...for support rather than illumination. A friend chose a relationship. Allow her that choice and privacy from the uninvited sword wielding of your "truth". Despite historical evicence, women seldom need rescuing and are capable of make our own decisions for our own reasons. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

You still haven't told us your personal opinion on this story... I got more from his posting of a news article than your tiring old cries of LIBERAL CONSPIRICIES! Do you expect anyone that marries outside their own family to take you seriously? jen "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers" -Homer Simpson ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".