jenfly00

O.K., I'll consider it. And while I understand your points very, very well (and in fact hold them, although not to the extreme you do; i.e. I wouldn't burn a flag to spite anyone for any reason, irrespective of which flag/country it represents), I just see this as a form of posting which is beneath you. Don't know you personally, only through here, but to hold up a person for public ridicule is not to my taste, or to my sense of humor. It is, however, your post, and you've done as you see fit. I'm just expressing my dislike, and shall, at this point, bow out of this thread altogether. Ciels- Michele Then I'm certain you will be relieved to know, I'm burning the flags out of heartfelt protest against those who call for violence because they merely don't like what you are doing. Nothing spiteful in my motivation. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Knowing Rob, I'd have to say I agree with this. But this is about as stupid a poll as I've seen...Jen, I understand your thoughts on this, but this thread is not terribly appropriate (imho), and doesn't serve a dratted thing. Sorta like the whole ViperPilot thread. Ciels- Michele Consider it a form of protest with a sense of humor. It serves, I hope, to help raise awareness that we cannot protect our great nation by defiling the freedoms it is founded upon. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

No ...but it is protected by the constitution.

Writing "lisamariewillbe" on one of my flags and torching it. I am burning it for the RIGHT reasons. I'm trying to reclaim my country from the "patriots". Two down, nine to go. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

When a women burns a flag in front of Rhino, it will present him with a quite a problem. On one hand, he would physically attack anyone who burned "his" flag. On the other he says, "Yes. It is my standard. I fight for my standards. Just like I won't let a man hit a women because I SAY SO. It's my belief system and it will be enforced." What will Rhino do? jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

You want to exercise your free speech.. Goto your local VFW and burn a flag.. I dare you.. Then pm me when you get out of the hospital in a month.. Try explaining to those veterans why burning your flag is acceptable.. You might get a word in edge wise you might not.. I live in Michigan.. You live in Florida. This is not a threat in any way (Billvon). It is a dare. Go to your local VFW and play this game and see if they understand. Rhino Pass, thanks. Pretty much for the same reason I would not go to a Klan cross burning (and meet some of the same people?) and burn a klan robe. Would be dangerous. However, I'll stand in front of you, bic one up in protest of your threats of violence and violation of your oath to support the constitution of this great country. I'd feel pretty safe and enjoy watching your cognitive dissonance as you try to weigh the relative values of someone who burns a flag in protest vs a man who strikes a woman. Would be fun, don't you think. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Well that pretty much sums up where you're coming from. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Yes. It is my standard. I fight for my standards. Just like I won't let a man hit a women because I SAY SO. It's my belief system and it will be enforced. OK, flag #2 going up in smoke right ....now! jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I burn this flag in protest of the un-American neo's who's actions (if not intent) threaten to defile the freedoms that made us the great. It saddens me to burn my country's flag, but I'll toast one every time I read a post promoting beating down those who celebrate our liberty and freedoms. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

You are calling flag burning sensible? Get a grip.. Keep trying.. Your remarks are ALMOST witty.. I'm going down the street to the hardware store. Last time I was there, they had small American flags on pencil sized poles for $1. I'm gonna buy and bunch and when I get back, I'm gonna light one up in protest of your most un-American posts. I'll buy a dozen and fire one up in protest each time I read you expressing your personal hatred wrapped in the guise of patriotism. I doubt they will last the weekend. BRB jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

$5 says your estranged wife smokes aound the kids. No bet, but while we're on the subject, I'd like to take a moment to wish this poor women peace and success in her efforts to recover her life. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

AGREED 100%. Well there you go. People have different opinions. I feel there is a threshold on the patriotic zeal scale, beyond which one would be a traitor to the country they say they love. Whipping yourself up to a froth to do violence to Americans because your sensibilities were offended ...yet claiming to be a patriot??? Seems to me such a person has lost all sight of what is right and wrong. Just put me on your lists of people you intend to beat up because we offend your sensibilites. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Bingo... I completely agree.. Love it or get the fuck out. Personally, I would rather see those who desecrate the freedoms that made this country great get the fuck out. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

So are you saying that women who have cosmetic surgery, are brainless twitts that can't think for themselves. And this discussion style has actually worked for you!? ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Poaching by someone implies ownership by another. Who is claiming ownership here and how can they lay claim to beauty, fun and enthusiasm? jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

The issue is not one of plastic tits. It's a far broader issue of how women have been socialized to view ourselves ...that our individual worth is a diretly tied to how we look and how desirable we appear to men. Now I don't know if your response is well intended ignorance or merely patronizing in intent, but I view these issues as major reasons many women fail to see the real beauty and worth in us all. Sorry if this rocks your world, but it is my sincere hope that others will not view our journey into realistic estimations of our value and self-worth as . jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

You use this argument to justify the millions of women who, in the absence of disease, injury or illness (physical), who electively seek to have bags plastic stuffed in their chests??????

While it may not be the intent, this continuing extra attention for women of achievement marginalizes wht they have accomplished. This type of 'support' plus the "woo hoo, hot babe!" types are a detriment to our achievements. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

You quote me, yet you respond to ...internal stimuli??? I could argue that women who take such extreme measures to 'improve' themselves perpetuate women as eye candy with our value based on physical attributes ...but I won't. Individuals have the right to make their own choices. However, my comment was concerning my view that women who choose what is, indeed, ritualistic surgical mutilation might have problems with self-confidence and feeling secure about who they are. After reading your 'response', I did a quick web search and guess what? Women who opt for such surgery do seem to have issues of self-esteem and self-worth. They express this lack of appreciation for who they are by committing suicide at a rate three times higher than the rest of us, have a higher incidence of psychiatric hospitalization and feel more inadequate than other women. When you add that 46% feel the need for additional surgery within three years, 64% have problems breast feeding, and even when specialized mammography techniques are used, almost 30 % of cancers would not be visible, you pretty much have to see that the decision to have breast implants is a bit more involved that choosing to wear perfume. Do other people find things I do and say to be ridiculous or even ? No doubt, and apparently my view that, absent disease or injury, surgery is not a viable option for promoting health, happiness or self-esteem is one of those things. http://www.phudson.com/BAM/breastsuic.html http://www.rednova.com/news/stories/2/2003/09/20/story005.html http://my.webmd.com/content/article/98/104773?src=RSS_PUBLIC http://www.phudson.com/2003/03/is-there-increased-risk-of-suicide.html http://www.silikonitieto.net/article.phtml?ID=17 I do agree with you on one point ...we need a 'rolling eyes' smiley. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Enhancments are every where but self cofidence goes way further in my book. Now self cofidence with enhancments, watch out you are going to get a lot of attention. I have difficulty understanding why confident, secure women would voluntarily undergo ritualistic surgical mutilation. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Sorry, I'm not going to buy into this. Morals are morals, doesn't matter the age of the person. Being young is not an excuse to accept bad behavior. My. What that line from Hearts in Atlantis? "When your mother writes her opinion of someone, she writes it in ink." I am reluctant to judge an adult for bad judgment as a child. I would be more concerned for judgment (or lack or) displayed as an adult. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

I would seriously re-examine what I valued in life if I thought I would, in any way, be better for having silicone shoved in my chest. jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Good advice. For our part, we need to realize that we have been socialized (generally speaking) to act out our feelings and emotions rather than actually put them into words (a result of generations of women dened personal power, but let's not go there just now). I suspect that some part of our frustration with men 'not listening' is that we are not putting into words, what we mean. We are 'speaking' nonverbally in a language we have historically used. What seems clearly expressed to us, frequently is not understood by men. The way I see it, if both genders work on the problems, we all may have a better chance for great sex.

They joked about celebrating with a beer?!?!?!?! Dig the bastards up and hang em! jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".

Um how is that sad...they were fucking off....they could have killed lots of people...that is not sad...that is fucking stupid... It sounds like they were having a blast. Based on what we read above, I couldn't make a call on whether or not they were reckless or unsafe. (assuming 41,000 feet was within operating limits) How bout if they had said: 9:48:44 p.m. Cesarz: ''Take her to 41,000 feet.'' 9:48:46 Rhodes: ''[Unintelligible].'' 9:48:57 Cesarz: ''Hundred and eighty knots, still cruising at Mach point six four.'' 9:51:51 Cesarz: ''Altitude 41 thousand.'' 9:51:53 Cesarz: ''Roger that.'' 9:54:19 Rhodes: ''That's strange.'' 9:54:22 Cesarz: ''Stalling!" 10:14:36 Cesarz: ''We're not gonna make it, man, we're not gonna make it.'' 10:14:38 Rhodes: ''Is there a road? Tell her we're not gonna make this runway.'' 10:14:46 Rhodes: ''Let's keep the gear up. [Expletive] I don't want to go into houses here.'' 10:14:51 Cesarz: [Expletive] ''road right there.'' 10:14:52 Rhodes: ''Where?'' 10:14:52 Cesarz: ''Turn, turn . . . '' Absent information to the contrary, sounds like two friends enjoying their work. There is a bit of a puritan in all of us and my first reaction was closer to yours. BSBD, jen ----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it".