RossDagley

Thanks for that Bill - as usual, you're over engineering everything!

It wont rip you up at all - regardless of the reserve pilot chute size (right up to a fully inflated main canopy) the dbag may well left off quicker, linestretch may occur quicker, the canopy may leave the dbag quicker, but the reserve canopy wont *inflate* any quicker - thats dependant on the slider and packjob. Pretty much the only thing that will happen using the departing main (partially inflated for example) will be the freebag will come off the reserve canopy quicker than with a regular sized pilotchute. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with that. Remember the super-pilotchute isn't 'attached' to the reserve canopy in the same way as the dbag is attached to the main canopy. It might cause a problem (centre cell stripping) if it were, but its not.

I agree - my point was some TM's would try and "justify" the hook-turns as "but but but I had to because the winds were dodgy and if I didn't we could have had a collapse" etc.

Very witty Bill

Think 'power steering' for your legs

And remember thats *five* people pulling low - the vidiot seems mildly surprised to see the ground quite so close too

Why hook it at all? What does the typical tandem student gain from it? They're likely first time jumpers, already 'overwhelmed' with the experience of the jump itself, and 99% probably wouldn't even notice the hook turn part of the canopy flight (sure, give them spirals at a safe altitude for the 'g force' and thrill). The risk (imho) simply isn't worth the reward - the student gets little (if anything) out of it, whilst the TM is putting the student at a greater risk - fact. Hook turns on a landing pattern carry a higher risk than a straight in approach, regardless of skill level. So, to surmise, TM's hook for *their* enjoyment, not for the benefit of the student. No point trying to dress it up as anything else. As a tandem student I pay my money to be given the tandem experience in the safest possible manner (within reason). A TM hook turning because they're bored or have done 15+ tandems that day already is, imho, not really on. The only exception to this I could see justified is pre-arranged with a knowing pax. IE, spot of drogueless headdown, some other treehugging stuff, then a 720 front riser approach swooping the pond Edit to add: I forgot to clarify I'm not talking about "I had to hook it it because the winds were such-and-such" moments, I'm talking about regular day-to-day run of the mill tandem landings.

At Hinton too When was that? What was the cause?

Well, this is being debated here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2090006#2090006 I was of your belief - it cant possibly matter how large (even canopy sized )

Yeah - we do bunkrooms at £15 per person per night on site. Very convenient! Just phone up and book same as usual. Hope to see you Sunday! Ross

Three words. Man-love. Bubba.

WAAAAAAY too much information

Billy - thats great to hear you've got some time booked What time will you be there? I'll be working on Sunday, so it'll be nice to put a name to a face so to speak.

Well, he's an extremely safety afare guy, and certainly not the type of person who would compromise anyones situation for his own gain. I've not met someone whos experience and advice I trust more. This is the only discussion I've encoundered where his beliefs are different to 'the norm' (and by that, I only mean dz.com, as I've only jumped there really), and whilst its certainly enlightening to review information posted by a whole host of people from all over the world, this is a belief thats held at my DZ - maybe thats because thats what the instructors believe is best, or maybe its just because thats the way its always been done. Its certainly nothing to do with personal gain (better spot etc) and I dont recall seeing either the CCI or the DZO(s) fun-jumping - they normally do tandems or AFF instruction etc, so its not that. I'll tentatively bring it up again when I can. I'm in the situation where I'm obviously on a steep learning curve, the DZ in question is very well organised and run, and the people I respect there the most (specifically the CCI) have a particular view on particular subjects!

Thanks for clarifying that Chris - my typing is slower than yours and I was formulating my previous post!

Gotcha - luckly you knew what I was talking about Yep, that makes sense. In the discussion with the CCI (Think I said DZO earlier, sorry, hes not) I was putting forward the arguement for flat-flyers out first after reading quite a bit into it. It was his retort about surface area (against the side of the body, ie horizontally moving air) that stopped me. I'm not a physics type person, so couldn't argue it then. But now I see where you're coming from - like when people argue they can "feel" when they're flying into the wind under canopy actually being nonsense as you're moving relative to the 'block' of air you're flying in - albeit moving over the ground at a different speed. I might mention it again when I'm next at the DZ, although little me with 70 jumps and something i gleamed of dz.com doesn't carry much weight in a discussion with someone with 4000+ jumps and 25 years in the sports personal belief. I respect my CCI greatly, and dont want to speak out of line. Tricky! Edited for speeling

Furry muff.

If you've still got their reply, I'd be interested to see it - I experience the same thing. IE, first tone at 3k, time to chuck. 700ish foot deployment puts me at 2.3k and decending slowly, but often I'll hear my 2k warning chime in just as the sliders coming down (300ft or so early). Is this what you get?

Should this actually *be* part of the A licence requirement? (I'm thinking of the requirement in Auz or NZ or whereever it was a few posts up). Maybe make a canopy control course a requirement. Sow the seed to safe canopy control? Forgot to say, my DZ (at the time) was DeLand, and the canopy course was of course Scott Millers. Going straight from AFF to the canopy course I think was a great idea. I'd do the course again tomorrow if I could.

Yeah, Geoff just sent a general email out to the hinton skydivers mailing list - I guess hes inviting everyone. I'll try and make it, gonna be some very useful info there.

Why? The freeflyers present more surface area to the (directional) wind than flat flyers. So although the flat flyers are subjected to the (directional) wind longer than the freeflyers, their wind resistance is less. Our DZO / S&TA strongly believes in putting out freeflyers before flatflyers on normal jumprun (into the wind). When we discussed the old dz.com exit-order debate, and kallends graph etc, he countered my 'belief' with the surface area retort. Anyone want to comment on it?

Interesting. I came off AFF (completed in 5 jumps) did 4 solos then went straight onto a 5-jump canopy control course which included toggle and rear-riser stalls, all still with student gear (in fact, the canopy control course was my first jump without a radio iirc - man, those 5k "low" jumps made me nervous ) The rear riser stalls were fine enough if a little weird feeling (falling backwards), but the toggle stalls required wrapping the brakelines and scared the bejesus out of me to see that canopy folded in half and to feel myself falling (I too whipped my hands back up and created a nice set of line twists). Other than requiring new underwear, I learnt more on those few jumps than on any others I can remember. I dont remember anyone saying it was a bad idea at the time, in fact, there was quite some encouragement for me to experience the 'feeling' etc from an education point of view. One of the very first things I did when I got my own gear was to perform stalls (amongst other canopy drills) at a good height to get the feel for the new canopy. I would do the same on any new canopy now, as and when that time comes.

Holy cow Batman! Not at this price!

As far as I'm aware, its a simple case of unstitching your BOC pouch, turning it round, and restitching it (done by a rigger, obviously). Some containers may require that you close flaps 3 and 4 in the 'other' order. Obviously you should evaluate whether you could still pull silver with your right hand if you were to dislocate your left arm or somesuch.

Yeah, the altitude thing is something I'm planning on being over-cautious about - I'll often do 7.5 or 10 minute flights in the tunnel before needing a few minutes rest - and I dont plan to be jumping from 20k with a wingsuit be nice tho