Orange1

funny you should mention that, i was thinking about it the other day (after when i asked ckret if there were actually fingerprints there). it seemed strange to me actually that he used any description at all (whether aft, rear, whatever)... it did also occur to me that the "aft stairs", assuming not just part of some dream, could well have been somewhere else - it sounds like there may have been more than one place he didn't want to leave fingerprints, after all... but then again my experience of hearing people talk in their sleep is also that the words are often not very clear anyway. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Nope, aside from some pysch lectures attended NDP out of interest at university (my degrees are in economics and finance, haven't had much chance to illustrate that expertise here apart from a small exchange about the end of the gold standard ) - the stuff i have posted is just gleaned from internet searches from what seem to be reasonable (mainstream) sources. (Not all that different from what a number of others are doing wrt various other factors... but as Aggie has said he has had experience interviewing these kind of people, it was that that started me looking..so now you know) As to what he said, I have no idea why. I could do some more searching ... it certainly would not be the only example of a false deathbed confession... but to be honest I have not entirely discounted the possibility that Jo simply misheard what he said (and yes I know she has been presented with that theory by others and denied it vehemently.) btw the original post said clearly that the stuff was all on wiki - which should have made clear i do not claim to be an expert!- in the repost i edited out some stuff that was originally a reply to something else and it got cleaned out with that. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Sluggo, I am sorry you see me as constantly "harassing" Jo. Maybe that's what it looks like. From this end it is more a (clearly futile) attempt to try to get her to see some reason rather than waste her life on this wild goose chase. I don't think "feeding" her (snow's words) is actually being kind in the long run. [And remember it started out with me trying to find stuff to help Jo.] btw, not that it makes any difference, but while AggieDave is a he, Orange1 is a she. To ... sorry can't remember who posted this - back on the raincoat topic - something about exit was mentioned in terms of whether the coat would blow up. Remember the truly experienced jumpers (I am not) who have jumped out of jets have posted about how, even with all their experience and being properly briefed, they still often/most cases tumbled on exit as the exit forces are wild. Remember - a coat over your handles on exit, and you have about 35 seconds to solve that problem and land safely. You saw Sangiro's post - with much less fabric involved he had to go to his reserve. IF Cooper jumped with a raincoat on it would have reduced his chances of surviving dramatically - and even more so if he was a novice with probably no clear way of trying to figure out exactly what the problem was or the best way of solving it without tumbling crazily all over the sky. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

btw i should add it may be "somewhere different" for you but November is already heading into high season and while higher airfares may be putting some people off long distance travel, by November last year the city was already teeming with visitors - if you will be staying in accommodation that needs to be booked it may be worth your while to start looking into that already. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

love the difference in 20 mins vs 45 mins from Cape Town... but yes it is 20 mins from around the waterfront area, if you don't get much traffic or if you drive like a certain other poster. AFF is on offer as has been said, and also the DZ is open 7 days a week. I also have to repeat that the views are really, really awesome - Cape Town is a beautiful city anyway and the view from above is the best way to see it

ok... now put yourself at the prow of the boat. boat is going 120mph (or more - exit speed). somehow get yourself so that your legs are facing the 120mph+ wind (with no 'help' subduing the coat by lying down). Is the coat still compressed against your body acting as windbreak? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

(sigh) .. snow, this is why some of the experienced jumpers get irritated with this forum (i.e. your questioning the problems with wearing loose clothing). but i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt knowing how you like to prove things. btw for your tunnel experiment - you don't even need the dark. it would be interesting enough to see how long it would take even in the light. remember - from 10K, you have about 50 seconds till you impact the ground, & probably about 35 seconds till you are still at a survivable opening altitude. Here's an example of a similar but seemingly much less minor factor (just the inside of a pocket) causing major problems - and bear in mind Cooper didn't have any silver (reserve handle) to pull (and even if he did, the length of a raincoat could well cover that handle too): http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=242477;search_string=clothes%20jump;#242477 Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

following aggiedave's post (and Jo, bear in mind that many of us long time dz.com forum members know and respect aggiedave's credentials) i thought it worth repeating this one (which I got a couple of complimentary PM's on at the time) 377 - i personally do think some of the technical definitions of delusion sound like they fit the case (at first i thought "delusion" was a harsh term until i actually looked into it a bit more - particularly see the 3 main criteria for a belief to be considered delusional below), but at the very least i don't think anyone can deny the confirmation bias/"myside bias" angle: Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

jeeeez jo... you just don't get it, do you? it's got nothing to do with fitting "profiles" ... it's the fact that you spin a whole conspiracy/cover-up story around the single fact that Duane apparently used to have a black raincoat! i've seen this described as doing such a good job of being able to join the dots that you can join dots that aren't even there. btw... i am completely open to whoever fits the actual profile - that was why i asked ckret if fingerprints were found on the aft stairs -- because it may have supported what you said duane said -- but there weren't any to justify this apparent fear.... the fact that duane along with millions of other people used to own a black raincoat, i'm afraid, also is rather less than convincing in trying to place duane on that plane - especially when you yourself have posted how he used to "swap" his clothing items out. accusing people of not being objective just because you haven't presented anything to convince an objective observer doesn't really wash either. much easier for you to convince yourself that anyone who doesn't agree with you isn't objective, i guess Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jo, do you have any idea how that post looks to an objective observer? All that stuff because... Duane once told you that he used to have a black rain coat? How many people do you think used to have black rain coats?! Maybe he "used to" have it because he had this habit of, um, "swapping" coats out at fancy restaurants... which sounds suspiciously like theft to me. Didn't that sound like theft to you? Yes, you do sound like you were, in your own words, naive. Someone else asked about wearing a raincoat while jumping. We have discussed before the potential problems of coats/loose clothing, which include that of the coat blowing up and preventing the ability to find and pull the ripcord. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Welcome to the sport and the forums

Hmm... during the war. The VN war? Was someone killed? Possibly. I also read somewhere sometime that officials were killed between the years of 1 and 2008 also. Seems familiar. I have seen pictures that were not taken. I googled "vietnam war soldier picture". I got 3.4 million hits. Look through those. If you could be less specific, we'll get more hits. ah, happythoughts, you're on a roll! btw your "I have seen pictures that were not taken." reminds me of that classic exchange from Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead: Rosencrantz: Do you think Death could possibly be a boat? Guildenstern: No, no, no... Death is not. Death isn't. Take my meaning? Death is the ultimate negative. Not-being. You can't not be on a boat. Rosencrantz: I've frequently not been on boats. Guildenstern: No, no... What you've been is not on boats. Rosencrantz: I wish I was dead. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

So.. did the line work?? The Led Zep post got me thinking. Here's some more context ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971 Of course, lots of serious stuff happened in 1971. But also note the hijacking took place between when Intel released its first microprocessor (nov 15th) and when the "Smoke on the water" incident happened in Montreux (Dec 4th). Conspiracy theorists, go wild! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Thanks Ckret. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Ah, but their denial was a cover-up too. Your analysis of the song proves beyond all doubt that this "myth" must be true. Great post Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Shhhh... it's clearly all part of The Great Cover-Up To Prevent The World Knowing The Truth About DB Cooper. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Yup, some of those "flowers" like coherent /cogent arguments, or actual evidence and stuff like that that makes sense in a story - in other words, you will happily agree with a conclusion if it makes sense. I wonder, are you talking about Jo's vehement responses to other suspects etc when you say "There are other people that feel that listening to a story is only worthwhile if you agree with the story’s conclusions." I suspect not, but it's a perfect description. My working life consists of sorting the wheat from the chaff when it comes to "stories" - arguments, theories, whatever, need to be backed up with a solid line of reasoning and make sense. Even if they are "unproveable" they should at the very least be internally consistent arguments that fit with known facts. I have no qualms with a preconceived notion being challenged or changed. Sadly, I admit to being one of those who originally did actually think Duane might have been Cooper (as you will know if you indeed have been around since the beginning of the last thread), until most everything I've seen here has changed my thinking on that. I'm still eagerly waiting for a suspect to be presented who fits the facts of the case. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Sluggo, you weren't around at the beginning of the last thread. Plenty of people were listening to Jo's story... until it became clear that what there was, wasn't so much a "story" as a hodge podge of unverified statements, suppositions, grasping at straws and wild theories (for example: the motive was he thought he was going to die from a kidney disease soon and had nothing to lose, then it was something to do with the the MLK assassination and Bay of Pigs). Through it all remains the fact that the FBI has probably gone further on Duane than it would have without Jo badgering them all the time and STILL hasn't turned up a shred of evidence to support the notion that he was anywhere near the plane that night. Instead we get subjected to the last resort of the conspiracy theorist - that there is no evidence because "THEY" are covering it up! Give me a break! What you may see as "prejudice" may be rational evaluation other people have arrived at after looking at all the "arguments". I do agree though, it would make a great movie - and Hollywood's never cared all that much about the truth anyway, has it?! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Another stunning example of your "objectivity" there Jo... But about all this fingerprints stuff - Ckret, can you tell us if there ever actually were any fingerprints found on the "aft stairs" that were not able to be matched and are possibly Cooper's? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

hey - if he felt uncomfortable jumping, that's his call, and that's fine. i've ridden the plane down once before too. but i don't have many more jumps than he does at all and am surprised he does not feel comfortable in a landing pattern without an alti. not sure what length of time has to do with it, 100 landings is 100 landings - isn't it? and judging by his sig line he plans to get his D-licence by the end of this year... Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

nope. IMO, thats just stupid. I mean I could probably do a pattern without an alti but it wouldn't be at 1000, 750 and 250. It might be within a hundred feet or so of those numbers but I'd rather stick with the altimeter for now.

First up Jo, if Duane really was Cooper then that really would be all the incentive you need "turn this in and help solve the DB Cooper case". Although I'm not sure what you really aim to prove. As for the FBI doing things like this all the time, well do they? Maybe they might to try catch a crook, but as part of a decades old investigation because someone wants to 'prove' a theory (what, exactly? I am not clear) about someone they have already dismissed as a suspect based on a number of pieces of evidence... I dunno. I'm also not sure why they should indulge you even if Ckret felt so inclined after all the vitriol you've posted about them - and especially Ckret - here? Especially as - maybe not very prevalent on this board but certainly on others - it is already coming under attack for wasting time and manpower on this case when there are plenty of real live criminals out there to catch. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

of course, in some countries it is perfectly legal to jump through cloud - i have done so, legally Ckret, when ya gonna go JUMP? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

If he is so sure Gossett was Cooper why did he hound me for yrs? You make it sound like Greg hounded you, but I presume you mean Cook. The articles stated Cook has been after Cooper for 2 decades but only found out about Gossett in the past couple of years. You may think what you like (given your clear bias), and I'll accept Ckret's assertions that the facts don't add up, but from what I have seen of Cook he really has been one to try find a suspect to fit the man rather than try get the facts to fit his suspect. Ckret, can you confirm or otherwise receipt of Cook's /Gosset's fingerprints and whether they have been eliminated? (Sorry I think you may have answered this a while ago ...if so humble apologies) Oh, and personally, I feel much better about the fact that banks don't go opening up safety deposit boxes to everyone who claims to be a surviving relative of someone who may or may not have had anything deposited there. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jo, you clearly didn't read properly what their issues are. They are not bored by long posts with replies on geological etc issues. They are irritated with people who ignore the facts that they present and to be honest, I can sometimes see their point. I don't see for example why you are so keen to keep the oldtimers reading this thread when you have dismissed just about every post one of them has made because it doesn't fit the Duane theory. Or like when others dismiss posts by experienced 727 jumpers because they don't tally with their own conjecture about what it might be like. That is why the oldtimers get pissed. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.