Orange1

I want to know if anyone has notice in the past several months that when any of us make a post that suggests something we were not aware of before and going in a positive direction the following posts go a complete different direction. Now this is parnoid at its height -It is as though we are being diverted to a different train of thought on purpose. We were talking about how the money was attached and suddenly we go into a repetive back lash. Different trains for different folks I guess. I was really interested in the line of thought we had going about the attachment of the money to the jumper. Well, Jo, the link to the transcript has been posted here more than once. It is in there that Tina saw him tying something around his waist. I would take that as pretty authoritative as it was a report Tina made right at the time. It is certainly not Ckret's speculation. I wonder what agenda you have for now trying to cast doubt on what she said she saw, at the time - NOT published later in anyone's book, etc. Your paranoia is almost amusing. You were really interested in how the money was tied? Apart from the fact that I seem to recall a LOT of discussion on that topic - how does that square with your later post that you weren't interested in theories about anything except Duane? as you said: Of course, it might simply be the case that different people have different opinions - that what you think is a "positive direction" may not be viewed as such by others, and vice versa. People will naturally keep posting on what they find interesting or think will actually lead somewhere, and let other topics drop. By the way, I do think your insistence on trying to keep facts from fiction is commendable. I also think what's good for the goose is good for the gander, so perhaps you would try stick to that rule too? And a final PS: it gets really tiresome when you start accusing, directly or indirectly, anyone whose thoughts you don't seem to like of being previous posters, authors incognito, etc. I see the mere mention of Mayfield has brought that up again. Tell you what: you keep on asking people to prove that Duane Weber wasn't Cooper. Why don't you prove that Mayfield wasn't Cooper? You say that previous discussions dismissed him - I am not entirely convinced yet that he wasn't, and from a couple of PM conversations I have had I know he is still considered a possibility by others (old time jumpers, not authors etc). Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

But Belgium presumably would have been WW2? I know an ex-paratrooper with over 50 jumps - 5 training (from planes not towers) and the rest combat (and all of them SL), but it was a different era and a different war. Given the time of the hijacking, Cooper may have been a Vietnam (or Korea) vet and I was wondering more about then - I have no knowledge whatsoever of paratrooper deployment in those wars. I think I recall reading about US paratrooper involvement in something happening in the middle east around that era as well but cannot be 100% certain that memory is right. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

And Cooper may yet be found hanging in a tree one day: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7595869.stm Belly bands theory is intriguing. The suspension lines theory comes from the fact that Cooper cut some, though; what else would these have been used for? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Hm, that does bring another angle to the paratrooper theory of course, and one that I hadn't thought of - whether or not you are right about the # of jumps, most "normal" paratroopers, even with many jumps, would only have done SL jumps (perfectly logical for 1000' or lower altitudes). I have no idea how many people would have been trained in HALO type jumps by the early 70s?? Nick, I am also interested -in why you think he only had a handful of jumps? Is it fair to say that a paratrooper of age in that era may well have seen a fair amount of combat/"real" jumps as opposed to just training jumps? Do we (by which I mean do you ) have any idea what the average # of jumps someone that saw a tour of duty may have done all in all? p.s. ... great post about rounds

Sluggo, this is the 3rd or 4th time that you have used that or similar phrasing. Is there any particular reason you keep on insulting skydivers as a group? I don't know about that particular photo btw, but paratroopers are trained to jump with heavy gear. Which is why some of us think Cooper's best chance of surviving the jump (night, weather, load, yada yada yada) would have been if he had been a paratrooper, and trained to jump in lousy conditions with heavy loads. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

well.. yes and no. Quade having stated the below when locking another thread pretty much makes this a (or rather, the) DB Cooper thread: And Jo started the other thread to put Duane in a parachute... which still hasn't been done. She claimed she had done everything else for the FBI. (The FBI appears to disagree.) Nick, I would probably never argue with you in any other thread because I think the posts you make are incredible

I think a number of people care about who Cooper was - and we will be interested to know IF he got away. Not least of all, agent Larry Carr at the FBI is clearly very interested in finding out who Cooper was. You, on the other hand, don't really care about who Cooper was unless you can prove he was Duane, as you have ably demonstrated by immediately dismissing any other suspect as soon as their names get mentioned. If you think are going to find answers by selectively filterinb out information, well great. Whatever, Jo, I wish you the best of luck in your quest. I will remind you, though, that this is a thread about DB COOPER - NOT about Duane Weber. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

OK, so you want us to ignore the actual evidence and things we KNOW are associated with Cooper and rather waste time on someone that most people have dismissed as a suspect? How logical is that?? It certainly does seem that Duane had a lot to hide in his criminal past, and I can understand you wanting to know more about it. However, there is still NOTHING that links him to Cooper...nothing AT ALL. Well Jo, I am finding it very hard not to actually swear at you here. I don't know who the others are, but if you bothered to look at my profile you would see that I registered on this site long, long before you arrived. Oh, and here's a simple suggestion: if you are going to get paranoid about the "information" you give out, then perhaps a public forum on the internet is not the place to do it. btw, did it occur to you that maybe the ex-wife lied to you because she was jus trying to get you off her back? Your assertion that people are going to great lengths to cover up his past also rings hollow in the face of certain other things we have seen here - for example when you kept on harping about the FBI covering up stuff about the commutation, and then it turns out that... well, there wasn't anything to cover up. Maybe the internet will help YOU realise that things you have considered part of some conspiracy or plan or whatever... simply aren't. Then, Jo, this just makes me sad: Sometimes you need to cut your losses... maybe you should spend the rest of your life peacefully enjoying it rather than trying to prove something that can't be done. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

That's cool. Can you tell us exactly how the club is "actively adressing environmental issues"? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Idly wondering... why, if something is available on the internet, one would expect the FBI to waste its time hunting after information that is clearly in the public domain. Especially if the subject involved, while clearly of a criminal past, has already been ruled out as being a suspect in any unsolved crimes. (And this would even be before we consider how rude and insulting someone may have regularly been towards the FBI agent concerned, in public.) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Online Manners - DON'T SHOUT More internet etiquette tips: Whether you're sending emails, chatting online, or using an instant messenger, using ALLCAPS is referred to as "shouting." While it is permissible to occasionally use ALLCAPS to emphasize a point, people find entire sentences written in capitals hard to read. As a result "shouting" online is considered rude. http://computer.lifetips.com/cat/59622/internet-etiquette-tips/ Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Good observation.. the "yes I know" response is very common in children of a certain age, but also of adults who don't like to be perceived as knowing less than they think they are supposed to. Then again, maybe he just did know it all... which would suggest a recce of some sort. Still, when you point out, and respond: I'm not quite sure how that conclusion follows (do I read right that it was Tosaw's conclusion, not yours) - or have I missed something along the way that indicated he wanted to be sitting at the oxygen? (he had after all asked for the plane to be flown depressurized which should preclude need for oxygen) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

to kkeenan: At the DZ i learnt at we were told not to wear shoes with metal hooks. If someone pitched up for a FJC with those only, I think they would have got taped up or something. Back to the shoelace story though, does anyone have a link to an actual incident report? I must be honest - having read about how deploying lines can take fingers off, etc, I would have assumed that a shoelace would have snapped under that pressure. Another of those "I never thought that could happen" stories.... (I always double tie my laces even though i wear booties, but that has had more to do with fear of losing shoes...) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I didn't think you were, but I was compelled to respond to be consistent with my previous posts Agreed entirely... which is why the burden of proof (legally too) is to prove that someone did it, not that someone didn't do it. (I presume you are not going to ask us now to prove that Serling wasn't Cooper....) to (1) I am assuming because he knew the stairs could be opened in flight, even if he didn't seem to have all the details around that (i.e. that you couldn't take off like that). re (2)... you mean "some" people. I'm perfectly open to the suggestion that Cooper was a slight nutcase, although I think the $200K would have been a pretty good motivation too. (Of course in that case it makes no sense that Cooper would leave it buried in a bucket or in a safety deposit box and therefore to all intents and purposes come out with nothing for all that risk...) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

too short? - ckret would rule him out on physicals (as he did christiansen) immediate first questions that spring to mind: was he ever considered a suspect by the FBI, and if so did he have an alibi? is there any evidence he was in the WA area around the time of the hijack? then we can get into motivation: he seemed very succesful from your description - why do this? (if it was a political motive - that seems to not have worked becaue no awareness was raised of any related issues?) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I don't make a habit of asking every poster on the board who their suspects are and why they think so... but to those who volunteer the info, I will respond (like the brenda/mayfield stuff in the old thread). If you were to put forward a suspect, I wouldn't really care if you were Cook, Jo, Sluggo, Ckret or whoever... I would be more interested in how the suspect stands up to the facts of the case as we know them. In this instance (Jo) I am caught between the duality of someone who I think is on a wild goose chase and could do with some peace in her life, and the feeling that the constant manouevring of the debate back towards Duane that she does is distracting from some of the other good stuff being done here. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

And there is your problem right there. If you don't even realise what you are asking when you say that, you will never accept anything and never find peace. btw, if Cook etc came onto dz.com I would indeed be asking them any and all questions that appear to be the result of logical inconsistencies, fanciful interpretation, leaps of logic, "unproveable" conspiracy theories and so on. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Well, actually hardly - that was just one of the first posts that came up in a search, so I left it there. I've now looked at a few more (by no means all of them). It is interesting to note that in a number of them Jo accuses the FBI of a cover-up. In one, she even says that she had asked the FBI "many times" about the commutation and they told her it didn't mean anything. Hmmm... seems they were ... RIGHT! Now, I wonder who owes who an apology...? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

you blithely missed the point of that post. So tell us Jo, what WOULD make or break what you have been saying? Seeing as you have chosen for reasons of your own to ignore real evidence - your whole argument about the fingerprint records being faked for example turned out to be spurious, yet you still don't accept it. Is there anything that will actually convince you that Duane wasn't Cooper, or will you continue believing that as long as you can't find it there must have been a cover-up? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jo, I can't tell you how relieved I am to see that you seem to be accepting that the commutation means nothing. However, I have to point out that you did use it to connect dots... see below (it's long because i left it unedited - so as not to get accused of selective editing) but see especially your last paragraph. Now, you surely have to wonder what other bits of "evidence" have led you to various "confirmations" that may be completely spurious. And we still have a situation where the only real bits of evidence - like fingerprints and DNA - just don't match up (not just to Duane, but to anyone so far - like Cook's suspect too). Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Orange, You completely missed the second level conspiracy explanation. To cover up the significance of Duane's 1968 commutation, the MO govt in the very next year dramatically ramped up commutation volume thus effectively diminishing or even nullifying their significance. A guy in a black helicopter told me so. 377 the really funny thing is... that exact "explanation" had crossed my mind! (albeit sans guy from black helicopter) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Good research on tracking this down, snow!! Explicitly stating commutations were nothing out of the ordinary back then. So I guess objectively we can remove the commutation as implying anything of significance at all. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

There could be a story. I'm not sure why "trade" comes up though. Are there typical stories of "trades"..examples? I would think "trades" would be rare....in terms of the conspiracy sort of "information" trade. Now in terms of other "goodwill" maybe. Wasn't there a suggestion at one stage that some of the commutations happened because prisoners did exactly trade information - about more important criminals/crimes? (the unkind might call this snitching) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Now, that would be an interesting answer. I suspect you won't get a proper one i.e. in terms of "why" ... just something along the lines of she "knows" that he was. She may even deny "wanting" Duane to have been Cooper (even though that fact seems obvious to most of us). I personally think that the real answer to that question would explain an awful lot. I have my own theory on it, but seeing as I don't have an MA in clinical pysch, or am even a Texas cop, it certainly wouldn't be coming from someone considered "good enough" to theorize... Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

before the whuffos express disbelief - yes. i made the mistake of jumping without my helmet strap done up once and ended up with a raw, bleeding patch on my chin from the 45 secs we were in freefall for... Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.