Orange1

Now that I am thinking about the sketches more things that were niggling at the back of my mind are coming to the fore. Like the way I never really thought the sketches looked a lot like Duane but never thought too hard about why, until I now examined them and caught (inter alia) the vertical wrinkles and the earlobes (neither of which will be affected by squashing a computer image). Here's my latest niggle. Sketches are used to catch criminals. One assumes the law enforcement agencies would want them accurate, so they would hire decent artists. I know a few artists and they would have no problem capturing motion, they are decent artists trained in drawing from life. I know police/FBI sketch artists draw on description but surely they would have had similar background training? Why have we been told that the sketch artist apparently had a problem capturing something with the lip because it is difficult to capture motion? Does the FBI pay badly and not hire decent artists, or what? edited to add: looks like the artists need a lot of training, plus must be of sound morals yada yada yada. wonder if the requirements were similar back then? http://ask.yahoo.com/20021016.html another add: the above url notes forensic artists are also the guys who do courtroom sketches. these are obviously often done in motion. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

The glasses always confused the issue for me and was one reason I never looked too closely at the sketches before. Put people in the same sunglasses or even ordinary glasses type and they all start to look the same, we know this. Of course, people who have to wear glasses most of the time seldom wear sunglasses (unless they have prescription sunglasses, or those ones that go darker in the sun, but neither of these seemed to fit Cooper). Did Duane even ever own any sunglasses?? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

see "size and shape" here and the pics, where they talk about "free" /"detached" or "attached" lobes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earlobe Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Didn't Gossett live in Salt Lake City? Wasn't McCoy from Utah? Do we have another theory for The Conspiracy...? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Doesn't look like the same person to me. Now that I am concentrating on the sketches, the photo of Duane has vertical wrinkles on the brow above the nose (if you see what I mean). This type of thing is normally already starting to be in evidence by the 40s but I see no indication of it in the sketch. The earlobes. Was it here that there was a discussion about earlobes a while ago, or did I see it somewhere else? - about there only being 2 types of earlobes, I can't remember the technical term - one going almost straight down to the face (as per Duane's photos) and one where they are "separate", which is what the sketches seem to show. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

lol. At least down here we don't have to wonder what people look like with a tan Er, we don't all want to say Cooper just "winged it" like a doofus. Having said that, you can't tell anything from him having a couple of cigarettes. Sure he could have had them because he was relaxed, as a typical smoker might. He could also have had them because he was nervous...as a typical smoker might. btw Snow, why do you pick up on the smokes and not the drink? Does the drink show he was relaxed? Or does the drink show he was nervous? btw wasn't there something about he was out of matches or whatever... seems to show he smoked regularly, at least at that stage. Another thought on the teeth. Was there ever any physical description of them? Not on the sketches. White or yellowed, even or gaps, etc... Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

hey good point. I drink a lot of coffee and I get the some of the same effect as smoking, I think. Dentist is always on me to do the whitening thing. man, first it's the hair, next the teeth. high maintenance. :) I tried doing a little spray paint for hair in photoshop, but decided it was best left to imagination. Hmm I guess I'm jumping back and forth between '65-'75 and today. Back then the teeth would be reasonable? Maybe by now, it wouldn't be a smile that shows so many teeth? Older guys don't smile so much like that? or ??? Maybe I should change the age advanced one to be a less toothy smile. Hey I was looking at Gossett's older photos..he's actually a reasonable match...although I don't think his face is wide enough at the cheeks?. And the hair seems wrong to me. Too much hair on Gossett? Gossett's eyebrows always seemed wrong to me, but I dunno. so what about the skin tone in the Southeast Asia (Takhli) video? What would you call that skin tone? (starting at 1:00) Thinking of the 40yrs+ people I know who smoke, even back then the teeth would not be very white. In those days he may already have been smoking for what, 30 years?? Re Gossett. Well I am starting to take an agnostic view of the sketches. It seems there are so many variables right now people can pick and choose to fit their guy. These lips don't work? That's OK cos look at this one... etc. You can work around the cheeks, hair. Eyebrows... hey, they look very thin in the sketches, maybe Cooper plucked them for his disguise (now there's a new theory ... I think). Why did Ckret dismiss Gossett - was it fingerprints? I can't recall now. (Are we allowed to dismiss one person based on fingerprints but not someone else?) Where is Ckret?? Last news item I can find referring to him is around a month ago. I heard a rumoUr he may no longer be on the case. That would be a pity, because as King5 describes the case till he came on it was "stone cold", "lower than low" in priority. If he is off the case the chances of another FBI agent willing to spend his spare time chasing it down is probably close to zero. Do our Dream Teamers have any insight here? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Teeth are far too white for a smoker. Unless part of the $200K is spent on aesthetic dentistry. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

snow, i need some hair!! i feel like i am looking at an extra from Star Trek! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jo, to be honest - these look like 3 different sets of lips to me. I can see some resemblance between the 2nd and 3rd, but the 2nd is significantly wider (differently proportioned) than the 3rd. If you showed me this with no background at all, I would be inclined to say they belong to 3 different people. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

are you saying both Duane and Cooper had some kind of tic? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

lol (it's morning here and i am drinking tea btw...) sorry - my browser hung and i guessed pressing "refresh" wasn't the right course of action btw Jo: See what happens when you take questions as questions and not personal attacks? Let's continue engaging in constructive debate... or at least try! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

YOUR ANSWER for yr is the Composites themselves What others (including CARR) are doing is misinterpreting the code on the front of the pictures - the back of these composites I posted are STAMPED: ]JAN 2, 1973 --- Just a little something the FBI forgot when they sent these to me. For yrs they have made it appear these where redo's in 81 - NOT so. I have the PROOF they are the new ones that Rose did about 2 yrs later, but the FBI kept right on using the old composite (Bing Crosby look-a-like) and the new composites where all but ignored and not released to the public for a very long time.,,maybe why they ended up with a file name ending in 81. See what happens when you guys are nice to me. It would be interesting to know exactly when these particular photos where actually released and used by the public. Jan 1973 is a lot sooner than 1981 for sure, but it is still not "right after the crime" and would have had seen a lot of press coverage etc in the interim. So, better by a huge degree but not ideal. In my opinion. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

YOUR ANSWER for yr is the Composites themselves What others (including CARR) are doing is misinterpreting the code on the front of the pictures - the back of these composites I posted are STAMPED: ]JAN 2, 1973 --- Just a little something the FBI forgot when they sent these to me. For yrs they have made it appear these where redo's in 81 - NOT so. I have the PROOF they are the new ones that Rose did about 2 yrs later, but the FBI kept right on using the old composite (Bing Crosby look-a-like) and the new composites where all but ignored and not released to the public for a very long time.,,maybe why they ended up with a file name ending in 81. See what happens when you guys are nice to me. It would be interesting to know exactly when these particular photos where actually released and used by the public. Jan 1973 is a lot sooner than 1981 for sure, but it is still not "right after the crime" and would have had seen a lot of press coverage etc in the interim. So, better by a huge degree but not ideal. In my opinion. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I think it's a myth that there is an "everyone looked like Cooper" myth. I seem to recall the discussion was that many people dressed like Cooper was dressed at that time. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jo, a question (not an attack, a question, please take it the right way). Are these the same ones that you posted later that appear to be marked "81"? Snow, are these what you referred to as the 1981 sketches? Please give me some leeway here, I can't bear going back through thousands of posts to try figure out which sketch was actually done when. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jo, I think you missed my point. "indian" for exampe is ethnicity. Ethnic background and being "American" are not mutually exclusive, especially in a country which prides itself on the diverse number of countries from which its citizens come. Like I already said, a second generation American for example will be American in accent, lifestyle etc but will have the same physical ethnic characteristics of his parents. I wasn't trying to imply he was foreign based on skin colour - but I was (and still am) trying to figure out exactly what is meant by the skintone. Your comment that the colours come out differently just adds to the (my) confusion. Snow's playing with the 3D images was interesting, if nothing else but because (to my eye) irrespective of the differences in the pictures he showed, they all look like the same guy to me. In other words, if the skintone was slightly out or the eyes were a bit out or whatever - if I knew a guy who basically looked like that, i think would recognise him from an imperfect likeness. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Yes, the notion that The Conspiracy To Change The Persona Of Cooper includes me is much more believable than the simple fact that I think the sketch looks younger than the "accepted" age. by the way, I don't understand your delicate divorcing of complexion from ethnicity. One says something about the other. If not for that simple fact the world would be a much happier place. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Photo is far too grainy to do that. My own personal anecdote on age. I turned 40 this year. A number of people I have worked with for over 5 years professed surprise to discover this and put my age between 32 and 35. People make mistakes on guessing age. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I have always assumed that he didn't want to alert all the other passengers by talking directly to the stew. My recollection of the transcript is that he writes further instructions after the passengers have left. Will check later. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Even if that interpretation is correct, the fact that they thought Cooper might know about that is still interesting? I want to go back and re read the bits about that... tomorrow. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I don't think noses narrow with age Not sure if chins get more interesting. Comb-over means nothing. I know at least 2 guys who were combing over before they hit 30. Lines around the eyes and forehead - could just be dry skin. Could be someone who spent a lot of time in the sun (getting tanned in the process....) in the days before everyone got paranoid about sunblock. (These were the days of the Jodie Foster coppertone ad, remember.) I'm not adding in age to my pet theory. I am starting to question the age assumption, however. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Are you saying most 45 year old men in 1971 didn't look like that? I agree. Are you saying no 45 year old men in 1971 looked like that? I disagree. The first. We've had this discussion before haven't we - about people's perception of age. But if most 40+ men looked older than he did.. how did strangers peg his age? Why didn't they think he actually was younger? Why would someone peg Cooper at 45 or whatever and sketch him looking significantly younger? I just don't understand it. (I'm entirely open to the explanation that I am just a bad judge of age from a sketch. ) Snow, re your 2nd line... I have also met 30-year olds who look 40. Is it possible Cooper was actually younger? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Am I the only person who thinks that the man in the sketch looks significantly younger than 40? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

The biggest problem I would have with Cooper being experienced is that he left it up to the FBI to get him chutes. Although his request for 2 sets did make them think he might make a crew member jump too and thus stop a potentially sabotaged chute. As I type this another thought occurs to me... a question that has been asked a number of times is "if he wasn't a whuffo why didn't he bring his own".. well (ahem) if his previous 'experience' tallies with Orange's Pet Theory of an accidental jump while acting as loadmaster or kicker... well he wouldn't have one of his own, would he? And then the comment in the transcript about him getting "impatient" for the chutes and "not accepting that they are not available locally". Was he expecting that McChord would be the obvious choice for the chutes? Was he expecting - wanting - to get a military chute? Some other things that I am now rethinking as I re-read the transcripts. The bit about the hijacker being in the toilet and "think he will stay there a while". WHY? i.e. - why did the crew think he was going to stay there a while? If you were crew and a hijacke went into the toilet, would you have any idea how long he would be in there?? Did he tell them he was going to be a while? (Where is Ckret??) The hijacker writing down his instructions. WHY? One reason might be he didn't want them garbled. Fine. Could another reason be that he didn't want to talk too much in case an accent slipped out? How much, really, did he converse with Tina? (Where is Ckret?? Who else can confirm this?) Reading further in the detailed transcripts (p59 of the PDF, 184 on the transcript)... on the "deal" from Boeing about how to "get out of there", Ground Control says "He's got that himself maybe". Right there and then, someone thought that maybe Cooper already knew the actual, real info about how to exit the plane. by the way this later detail does confirm that he wanted the steps down (not just the door open) at take-off. There was also a debate here about whether he actually asked for the flaps at 15 or the pilots just interpreted that. Pilot says: "he wants the flaps down to 15, I think" (which is ambiguous as to whether he asked for 15 or whether what he asks for makes the pilot think 15). Pilot then says "He seems to know a little bit about an airplane. He says we'll have to go unpressurized... I don't know where he picked that up. He said we'll have to go below 10,000". My eyes are getting sore from this PDF. Maybe I will have more to nitpick on later. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.