sfzombie13

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yes, it was the government. freedom industries is another finger of the coal industry. in wv, coal is king. elsewhere, other industries run the show. going back in history at least a hundred or more years, industry has been paying off politicians here (and everywhere) and we are seeing the results in the total lack of regulation. freedom owned the tank that leaked. the water company hadn't changed out their filters for at least three years when they are only good for one. they kept pumping water into our homes, knowing it was polluted with a chemical with unknown effects. the cdc came up with an arbitrary number of one ppm they said was "safe" after about a week. the government, specifically gov. tomblin, downplayed the whole event when reporting to the feds. every time we asked any questions about it, all they said was "we don't know". in 2008, the chemical safety board came here to investigate an explosion in a chemical plant that killed two. they made some recommendations. in 2010, they came back after a chemical release killed one. they made more recommendations. that same year, gov manchin sued the epa and corps of engineers saying they discriminated against the coal industry. gov tomblin took over the suit with his time in office in 2012. a lot of things went wrong and led to that spill. one of which was freedom industries trying to make money by cutting costs and safety. another was west virginia american water not shutting off the water (this could have mitigated the effects). but the main thing was the government not enforcing the already lax standards that were in place. the stormwater permit required a response plan and containment for the chemicals. it was not there, yet the permit was issued anyway. and now, fema won't assist us because tomblin said it wasn't too bad of an emergency. yet not one official will say the water is safe, hell, one official said there are different points of view on what is safe! but hey, i heard just yesterday that they issued some more recommendations. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

after reading this thread, i have to say that your thought process is scary. i am really glad that it is not your decision. as had been mentioned before, all the founding fathers would have been called terrorists, not rebels, had the term been in vogue at the time. the way things are going, it looks like it may come down to it again. i know i would be there, on the side of the constitution. it is a good document, not perfect , but close enough. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

oh, no. i will never become a politician, just the agent of change. i do not mind being the watchdog, the organizer, or something like that. i actually want to help people. i did have a chance to meet some good ones in wv, but i seriously doubt that anything will change. there is just no way to get the majority of people off the couch and into the polls. it's a self perpetuating system of laziness. and it is being fed by industry. even the very nature of politics adds to the problem: the us vs. them attitude where everything is skewed is just way too broken. it all needs to be scrapped and started over again. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

most of you know that i like to complain about the government, well, when they poisoned our water big time, i went nuts! i didn't know what to do, and asked for help. well, andy908 gave me some great advice. i became an activist. and then i even started my own group to fill a need in the area. of course, every good group needs a .org website, so i bought a domain and put up a website (well, just a placeholder now with a couple of links, but i have a web designer who volunteered to be webmaster). everyone needs to check it out. http://togawv.org _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

i admit that is a big one. the only one i really worry about. but with the way these screwups happen, i have no problem using them to my advantage. we spill over 94 million tons of waste per year. how many have you heard about? the only reason i have heard of any is facebook and activist pages. 84,000 tons of coals ash in nc, 3.5 million gallons of raw sewage in nc, 10,000 gallons of fracking fluid (proprietary compound) in wv, and one i forget. just in a month. the other big thing is getting voters to turn out. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

i think i am going with turn our government around. since it is starting as a college group and i want it to spread to all campuses, it may increase membership and fundraisers would be a blast. who doesn't love a good toga party? man, it was close with the elk river zombies though. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

yes i would stop the development. i know hwo much it has changed since i was a kid also. and it is more than just light and noise pollution also, so much more. the reason i chose water is the tragedy happening to us in wv right now. and i am not even directly affected, i have a different water system where i live. but when my son goes back to school or with his mom, he is. water is a good galvanizing point: we all need it. my ultimate goal is to change the government. short term is clean water and better (and actually enforced) regulation of industry here. then, clean house in the state legislature (november). then, tackle the feds. it will take a while, i may not reach my main long term goal, hell i may get killed by poking around in the wrong place before the short term goal happens (i went to the tanks where the spill happened, and even chatted with the fbi for a minute). point is, i am doing something. and since the average citizen is lazy, easily distracted, and has severe long term memory problems, i feel that the best thing i can hope to contribute is a template for others. a sort of activating kit for other interested groups. also, a way to connect all the groups together when needed. all the groups are individuals, when banded together, they could be unstoppable. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

i remember well who is in charge, and i also look good in a ghillie suit. i will make the change occur. will you stand beside me? if not, i could use a few guys lying up on top of the hill covering my ass. your choice. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

i like the charleston river rats. i want my group to have a catchy name, thanx for having fun with it. elk river zombies is cool too. we have too many friends of this or citizens for that. the more i think about it, the more i like the elk river zombies. and i haven't even got my group started yet and am already thinking of franchising out to other schools. would anyone in any college, university, or trade school like to partner with us? if so, let me know. i am working on our constitution, but with writing bids for work and speeches for activating, it's been tight. but it's a blast and i feel like i am making a difference. thanx for helping. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

and you are forgetting the main point i am making here. there will be no bloodshed or violence. think about several things for a few moments. first, there is already a great infrastructure in place, not all of it is worthless. the systems are set up and the constitution is fantastic. second, all i am proposing is what iceland did, or something similar. holding accountable the responsible party and separating the corporations from politics. third, the groups i am trying to appeal to are all of them. if i can get enough diverse interests together, even for a few months, we can get the people motivated to actually go out and vote. if that happens, then the change will follow. all of this will happen without any kind of violence or subversion of any kind. now, i have been wrong before. and in this case it is more than possible, but i really believe it will work itself out. if not, then oh well. i was trained by the us army in mobility and counter mobility. i was an e6 in a special forces unit, and there is a mountain not too far from here where almost a company of them own property. i don't think it will come to that, but if it does, i think we'd be all right, at least here. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

not if we enlist the very best and brightest into our cause first. they drink water and breath air as well. and they all have families that do. i am starting an activist group, the purpose of the group is to connect all the other groups. that is true organizing. as long as everyone is distracted and divided nothing can be done. but with 100,000 groups of 100-1000 members banded together would be unstoppable. when the united group speaks, leaders listen. it's the only way. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

makes more sense knowing that. as i said, i would have to look into it more to have a valid opinion, but with everything going on here, i could not care even a little bit less. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

If you answered yes to either of these questions, you NEED TO SIGN THE PETITION!!! I will do legwork, get out and protest, sign people up, organize action groups, etc. (all the hard work) but we need signatures!! All you have to do is give me two minutes of your time, sign the petition, then pass it along to everyone you know. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/investigate-mismanagement-wv-water-disaster-state-and-county-officials-well-wv-american-water/m9S1TDRC _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

good choices all, i really like the anti-capitalists. we the people is taken, my girlfriend came up with that and i don't like what they are about. chaos is also pretty good, that pretty much sums up the situation here. http://www.npr.org/2014/01/29/268201454/how-industrial-chemical-regulation-failed-west-virginia http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/01/140116-chemical-valley-west-virginia-chemical-spill-coal/ https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/investigate-mismanagement-wv-water-disaster-state-and-county-officials-well-wv-american-water/m9S1TDRC http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201402070043 http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201402010043 the third link is a petition, please sign it, everyone needs to sign it, we are running out of time. you would think that after a disaster of this magnitude, with 300,000 affected, getting 100,000 signatures would be easy. well, in this country nothing is easy. and that's how we got into this mess to begin with. trying hard not to lose faith in the system, but it's broke. it needs fixed. oh, and two more for our friends who may not have heard about these two in nc just three weeks after ours. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/07/us/huge-leak-of-coal-ash-slows-at-north-carolina-power-plant.html?emc=eta1&_r=0 http://www.wral.com/3-5m-gallons-of-sewage-spill-in-haw-river/13348717/ these are the reasons i jumped in and started activating, it's not just our problem, it's everywhere. i read somewhere that there were over 94 million tons of spills in the us last year. trying to find that link. we need to get everyone involved. should be easy, we all drink water. pass this petition to everyone you know, we have a good movement going here now, i'd hate to see it lose momentum, the olympics can be a distraction. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

i am starting a political organization at the college i am attending. it will be some sort of central organizing group more than anything. i mean gathering smaller groups onto large ones seamlessly. that is my vision anyway. short term, it will help with this water fiasco we have going on here. check out rachel maddow with ken something. it should be on youtube. i fixed the typo on my picture, i wish i had made it so i could fix my eyes being shut also. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

just a short view, but it sounded to me like they were mad because it would make the property value go up or something, when it looked like it would make it more convenient for the poorer people with less reliable transportation to get to a grocery store closer. i would have to hear more about this to make any kind of real guess. on the face of it, it really does sound cut and dried though. on the face of it. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

sounds pretty cut and dried to me. of course, with any story, you only get one side, no matter how objective some claim to be. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

the thing i find odd is that there is a group that is so offended by the use of a racial descriptor in police descriptions. not that they can be offensive. it is all in the context. i.e.: i was talking to a guy the other day and... or: i was talking to a black guy the other day... this i could understand being upset over. i hear it all the time, but try not to take offense. on the other hand, a cop looking for a suspect in a crime should have as much information as possible for two reasons, to make his job easier and to avoid unnecessary harassment of innocent people. my fault, i was not clear in the previous statement. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

it's not flippant, it is pathetic that we are even forced to be having this thread, not because we are discussing something insanely stupid, but because it really is happening somewhere. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

this i can understand. i don't have any links, but have read before where eyewitness testimony is usually mistaken. so, if a black male in a green camry is stopped, then so be it. i would go one further saying that in this case, all camrys should be stopped, but not all black males. i would even go one further and say that all cars that look like a camry should also be stopped. a lot of cars nowadays look alike. this is not unreasonable. now, that comes with a limitation. they should be stopped, and possibly asked a few questions, not harassed. i see nothing wrong with stopping anyone who comes close to fitting a description. i do see a problem with detaining or arresting anyone. or using profiling to concentrate only on blacks, but not camrys. this is merely covering all the bases. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

just a quick update. i signed up for my bachelors degree in january at the university of charleston. my online classes start in march, and while i was there yesterday checking on the paperwork, i decided to start or join a group to help get more people involved in the cause. by the time i left, i had talked to several faculty members to enlist an advisor. while talking with one, she asked me at the end of the conversation after providing me a list of faculty to ask, what my major was. i told her it was organizational leadership. she just smiled and said i was doing a great job. then it hit me and i had a good laugh with her, i had almost started a student organization before taking my first class! i really wish they had used a picture with my eyes open, though. now, i'm not a big fan of political stations, but have always paid attention to rachel maddow. she hit the nail on the head with this report. http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/watch/west-virginians-dubious-of-water-reassurances-139114563968 _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

no history, from the article: As Gawker points out, “a police officer was fined $18,000 after he arrested a firefighter who also refused to move his firetruck during a highway rescue” back in 2008. apparently, this is sop for the cops. or at least has happened before. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

that surprises me about as much as that economics thing they were talking about last year based on a flawed spreadsheet that nobody could replicate but they just accepted anyway. _________________________________________ Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes