AlexCrowley

Rush, It comes from watching media trends over the last 10 years. It was especially pronounced when it looked like Kerry might win, according to polls. Of course, I was only monitoring the top 5 papers in the US at the time so YMMV. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Thanks Bill, that's what I thought TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Ok, please, someone explain this to me. 1. The Bush haters bash the president. 2. "love it or leave it, hippy!" My confusion? Why the hell are you sat in the US making that statement after 8 years of Clinton 'destroying the country'? Sorry, just can't work out where attacking Clinton isnt hating america but hating Bush isnt. I hate them both, yet love America. How strange. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

I think you're seeing the media as liberal biased because you're to the right of center. Many liberals see the media as right wing biased because they're too the left of center. Media answeres to $$$$$$. For 3 years you could not find one negative story about Bush. EVER. I looked, trust me. Then his approval ratings came down and we saw negative Bush stories for a little while, then it looked like Kerry might win! BIG NEGATIVE BUSH STORIES!!!!! then not so much, and little negative stories and then BUSH WON! GASP! and no negative stories, now his approval ratings are in the shitter and its back to HUGE NEGATIVE STORIES!. Journalism does not exist at a national for-profit level, it simply panders to the largest demographic available to pad it's ratings and generate more advertizing revenue. It has been this way from the day they stopped using their programming to fund their news reports and started seeing it as its own profit center. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Ok. newsflash. It's not a Left/Right thing. The CIA was well known for using the US embassy in Saudi to procure visas for terrorists over the last 20 years or so - Embassy staff have stepped forward since 9/11 and admitted so. I think the intel sharing is a red herring. Bear in mind the huge pissing contest between the various agencies. My thought is that 9/11 was a very large wake up call for the agencies to stop acting like assholes. It really has nothing to do with which administration did what, as this really is the fruit of a multiple-administration situation. We created monsters and they turned on us. Blame the CIA if you really want to pin it on anyone, or you could simply accept that the world is a fucked up place, and that hindsight is 20/20. If you blame Bush then you're blaming Clinton, Bush SR and Reagan also. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

s***-stirrer! TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Without country music you cannot have songs about US going out and kicking ass defiantly. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Um. you're claiming to be a Christian. David Koresh claimed to be a Christian, spent his life ministering the bible as he understood it. The seige of Waco was because he thought God had told him to decipher the 7 seals - a role he took up. The fires started on the day those essays were to be complete. Koresh died for his beliefs. You may sit and claim that Koresh perverted the word of the Bible, but to Koresh he was doing what the Lord asked of him, and eventually gave up his life for that belief. We're back to man's imperfect interpretation of a book - whether or not it's exactly the word of God is unimportant, man will undoubtadly f*** it up by saying 'Ah, but what God meant to say'. Historically and sociologically we will attach different meanings to words. Now, on the subject of contradictions: 1. I was quoting another article - sorry if that wasn't clear. But yes, it doesnt take a genius to find contradictions if you use the following statement: The Bible is the Exact Word Of God and Perfect In All Ways, as some have stated. http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/bible.htm#INDEX This is a list of 140something famous Bible contradictions. Please note that I do not care there are contradictions in your Bible, but the apologetic Christian who answers all these jumps through some interesting hoops to reconcile the answers. Some are basic, some not so much. I will tell you that in my reading and study I disagree with the use of the word Faith in certain parts of the New Testament because of the words used in the original greek do not map to what I think most people consider Faith to be (which is that faith is believing in something for which there is no proof, where believe is 'to accept that something as true'. There are several times Jesus is translated as saying Faith where another word would have been more accurate and might just have changed the way the world approaches religion. I'll be standing on top of this pile of wood if anyone needs me......does anyone smell gas? TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Please do not bring attention to tactic #3 as it limits effectiveness of said tactic. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Um. Yes it was investigated. Just because you read it on the intarweb via google does not make it true. There so much bullshit and noise out there, especially on the subject of 9/11 that it would seem to me that blaming anyone for anything would be a sign of extreme shortsightedness, being ignorant of the available and validated facts on the subject, and having no real interest in the truth, only in validating your own prejudices. I only say this because I used be one of you, then I stopped getting all my information from people that preach to the choir. There is no worldwide media conspiracy to cover this up, it simply doesnt work that way. Yes, the US media SUCKS because its profit driven, but Europe and the rest of the world pick up the slack and rarely are afraid to cover a story like this: for reference go read as many backissues of British and European papers around the buildup of the Iraq war. The reverse is also true, if anyone actually pays attention to any US reporting on foriegn stories that dont involve a war we're currently embroiled in. Then do some real research into all those inconsistencies that you didnt even think of yourself. You went to some site that listed them all out for you and linked to media stories as proof. In general they choose one source to link to and load the language of the entire article. It's like reading one of those email circulars that list the coincidences between JFK and Lincoln. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Perhaps some of the veteran jumpers could weigh in on that one for us. Juliebird, I"m going to guess from your name and your icon that you're female, and that your profile is also accurate. Would you walk around your town at night alone? My wife had a similar response to my post when she read it last night, I asked her if I could go drop her off in the town center at 1am so she could go for a walk. She declined. For me it's not so much about it definitely happening. It's about a basic respect for an activity that has a very small margin of error and is unforgiving when they do occur. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

They already have the tour t-shirts ready. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Wow I'd forgotten all about that site. I'll have to find the other one that has the science book disclaimer labels...ah http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/cpurrin1/textbookdisclaimers/ TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

I did not compare Christ to a porn star. I said that I would not be surprised if the next coming of the messiah was in the form of an ex-junkie pornstar. Now, if you think there's something quaint and romantic about being born in a barn to a poor carpenter, thats fine. My point was that the Jews were expecting the Holy King of Kings Terminator and got a meek carpenter who had a way with words and told some decent stories to get across some very simple, yet important, concepts. Christians say 'ahhh but the Jews misunderstood the prophecies, look, this is quite obviously Jesus - the New Testament tells us so quite plainly!'. Ok, The Jews, they didnt have a New Testament to work from. Xtians have the benefit of hindsight, they didnt have an Old Testament, and this is what pisses me off.. How arrogant would you have to be to assume that an entire society would just happen to miss all the bits about 'the lamb' and therefor misunderstood Jesus. Cmon, at that point in history that society was closer to their scripture than most Christians are nowadays. They quoted them from memory and if they blew a word or stumbled they went back to the beginning. People spent their lives studying scripture. And Xtians are arrogant enough to believe that Jesus was an obvious choice as messiah to those people who studied prophecy?!? Hardly logical, I think. So whats to say that Christians arent misunderstanding him again this time? God's word of the day: Haddock. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Perhaps my God has a better sense of humor and can see in my heart my feelings - or some biblical shit like that ;) Hey, judging from my PMs there's a very good chance I'll die for my beliefs. Please compile these teachings and tack them in just before Revelations TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Urm. Of course, but I think anyone reading this forum could point to specific examples of those who adhere to the 'bible is the exact word of god' school who do exactly the same thing. "Thou Shalt Not Kill" pretty bloody basic concept. Explain those christians who bomb abortion clinics? I'm sure *they* can justify it by calling it a war, saving the unborn. I dont recall ever seeing a direct passage saying 'thou shalt not kill, except abortionists'. Justifying our ideologies is our only protection to not spinning off into the insanity of the unknown and unstructured. What about those idiots who travel the country picketing churches that support homosexuals. Did I miss the bit where Jesus said 'love thy enemy, except for those filthy fucking fags, and then you can wish death upon them'? Thats right, justified by much biblical quotation. Which bible are we misinterpreting here anyway? Do we suffer a witch or a poisoner? I'm happy to go trigger happy with a flamethrower in Salem, its just down the road - but that whole possibility they actually meant poisoner has held me off til now. EVERYTHING is an interpretation. Unless you are reading the Bible in its original form as a native of that country from that historical era you are LOOSELY INTERPRETING IT. I really dont understand how Christians can be so hypocritical on this point. On the one hand "The bible is the absolute word of God, exactly as he intended, every letter, every word". Ok, but if you read the book cold and logically it is filled with contradictions and errors. Ah say the Christian apologetics, "here's a list of things for you to remember: Skeptic's Instructions for Reading the Bible: * Always read it completely literally in isolation and never take into account the social, historical, literary and cultural context in which it was written. * Have a wrong concept of how God should have done things and then throw the rattle out of the pram when he does things differently - this is otherwise known as setting up a straw man and then knocking him down. * Assume that God dictated it rather than using men in the social, historical and cultural context of the day. * If there is a difficult passage never consult a commentary written by someone who understands the social, historical, literary and cultural context. * Never compare scripture with scripture to find the meaning of difficult texts * Never use different bible versions, never check out the Greek or Hebrew. * Always assume that if you cannot understand something then it cannot ever be true. * Ignore the fact of progressive revelation * Never try to understand the human-divine nature of Jesus or the Trinity, never consult a theologian who can explain these difficult things. " umm. But I've done that, so have many others I've talked to, yet Christians turn around tell me I'm bordering on the heretical. Anyway, gotta head out for a while, I'll tackle the rest later. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

I did mine last weekend and loved them. I had to have a couple of friends sit with my wife and explain why I'd be safe doing it, but I stopped being concerned about it after 20 minutes of thinking beyond the initial 'hell thats 1k lower than Ive ever pulled before!'. I really enjoyed the experience, in two weeks I have the canopy course mentioned above, which I'm really looking forward to. I intend to do a lot of HnPs simply because they're both cost and time effective for someone on a time budget that rarely allows for all day at the DZ. In addition, as a low # jumper I feel that I should concentrate more on canopy control and becoming a solid pilot now I have enough freefall skills to remain stable and perform the basics. Afterall, I can always HnP rather than have a freefall, I'm always going to have to use a canopy whatever style jump I'm doing. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Did you just say that God needs viagra? Hardly a god of gaps then. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

In my opinion only I believe that there is A word of god available. Certainly not the same God that you've spoken about. In what form? I am not a preacher, priest, teacher or speaker. I have no system, scripture or formal 'thing' to draw from. For me to try and talk about where I think the word of god is, or isnt, would be like me dancing about architecture for you. I would appear to be speaking a totally different language because you would never understand, given your statement about pornstars and 'humble births'. In the same way the Bible reads shallowly to a non-believer, my comments would lack any weight to convey what I do or do not believe. Neither do I have any wish to convert anyone, convince anyone or even have a pissing contest of my God is better than your God. In all honesty I'm pretty sure that 'my' God doesnt even fit the same definition as yours. feel free to PM me. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Tim McVeigh wasn't a devout Christian according to the public record. However I know what you mean, you could use The Olympic Bomber as he was a extremist and a member of Christian Identity, he'd also bombed several abortion clinics. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

The smart ass side of my personality says "then forgive me" but it would go over peoples heads. Perhaps you could talk a little more about why you feel what I said was disrespectful and why you feel it was an attack. I forget how extreme Christians can be in the US compared to the environment I grew up with in Europe, where my comment would be dismissed as either mildly offensive stupidity to be ignored or considered as an off-beat but possibly intriguing concept for further discussion, a discussion that wouldn't include just Biblical quotations and defensiveness. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Rhys. I am a conspiracy theorist. I have embraced so many over the years it scares me to think I'm a) that much of a geek and b) that obsessive. I research the hell out of anything and everything. The 'fake plane' conspiracy is only one of the myriad of the theories out there. I really do not have time to go into huge detail because I have to get off the computer right now. However, this particular theory relies on supposed anomalies with both the structure of the planes on the video tape and the shape of the explosion. You can use google to check this out, the same way I did. I dont just read something 'cool' and accept it, I try to debunk it, the same way I try to debunk whatever Bush says, or Clinton said. It's easy to find things that fit with the way your mind accepts reality, its tougher to accept information that directly contradicts that mindset. In otherwords, do your own damn homework, you already have your mind made up. 1. Planes: the 'expert' analysis is flawed, you can find this on any number of aviation sites where this bullshit theory is discussed 2. Operation Northwoods and PNAC............urm. Ok. Thats a bit of a fucking stretch. Lets also blame a 1950s congressional document regarding targeted biological agents to be proof for the outbreak of AIDS. In otherwords, at the very most they are proof that people can think of some sick shit. I dont agree with PNAC, but I dont think it's a smoking gun. 3. The 'bombs in the buildings' theory has been debunked in various architectural artices and forums by experts in the field, not some wanker at his computer who googled 'detonation of buildings' and thought they looked very similar. 4. WTC7's collapse is a HUGE mystery. Not. Urm you know what........you already have your mind made up. There are things about 9/11 that still concern me, and there are some details which do not make sense, but they are not any of the things written about in the article linked to. Ironically I discovered all this simply so I could prove that the Government did it.................and discovered that was highly unlikely. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Ok, I think I'm in that catagory with a whopping 17 jumps. First, I'm a father in my mid thirties, so YMMV, I know where I am in my life and what I consider to be my priorities. I dont think 'false sense' fits. Sure I was concerned about my 3500' HnP, and yes I wouldnt ump without an AAD - because my wife wouldnt let me near the plane ;) I have wanted to skydive since I could ever remember. I know that things have evolved and become statistically less injurious. But I know that skydiving is dangerous. I know that statistically there is a very high probability of a hospitalizing injury (broken bone or greater). I also am at peace with the truth that there is a significant risk that I may die, either through my own error, someone elses or freak chance. On my recurrency jump 5 weeks ago I was so scared doing my exit count that my AFF coach (who trained me last year and is now a friend) was laughing about it afterwards with my wife. The second I stepped out into the air it disappeared and I remembered why I did this. I am not suicidal, a death freak, fatalistic, pessimistic. I simply accept the fact that when it is my time, it will be my time. Until that moment arrives I will take every available precaution, piece of technology, education and self discipline to put that day off for as long as I can. Any time you pit yourself against nature, you always risk nature finding a way to mess with you - no matter how many things you put in place to reduce that risk. Denial is a very very powerful thing. I think it's as easy for low number guys like me to have the totems of AAD and RSL as a mental crutch as the 300 - 600+ jump skygods believe in their immortality by divine right. (based on warnings I had drilled into me by my first jumpmasters w/3k, 8k and 14k jumps respectively) My biggest fear is to jump without a beginners mindset, without expecting something to go wrong, without being prepared and educated on one of those things that can go wrong. But I dont think this is a problem with AFF coaching, or the focus placed on the new safety techologies available. I see exactly the same sense of immortality displayed by some of the 18 - 26 year old professional wrestlers I train alongside and do shows with, who do high risk flips and insanely dangerous falls - Massachusetts alone has had two fatalities at wrestling shows in the last 12 months due to high risk moves. Both head injuries. It never makes mainstream press because no one really cares about prowrestling - which is the only reason it stays unregulated. Like skydivers, wrestlers are aware of the risks and the kids minimize them and remain in denial. Injuries are guaranteed, there's a lot of guys who are retiring at 35 and looking forward to the rest of their lives in constant pain from the physical grind (I know a little about that after only a few years). The kids active in the sport dont even think about it. They see their mentors hobbling around, their friends on crutches, in hospital emergency rooms late friday and saturday nights getting treated for whatever break, gash or tear and still think it could never happen to them and even when it does, if it doesnt cause their retirement they'll ignore doctors orders and get back in the ring the next week - even after major surgeries against medical orders (I have seen this happen repeatedly - eg, knee surgery recovery time = 3 months, these kids are fighting thru the pain and returning to the ring after 2 or 3 weeks, insanity). I think this is why Dzs have bounce bingo, wrestlers have their own less structured system, the vast majority are never going to see through their denial - the ones that are on the edge make our lists, but I dont think they are the only ones guilty of making that severe a misjudgement. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

Sorry, this theory has been thoroughly debunked over and over. It's so bloody stupid I can't even be bothered to cite sources on it. TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.