377

from the article Janet's account is equivocal about having actually seen a person on the "ladder or platform". I dont think she could have seen any structural detail, but the flare path description (arching away) still nags at me. Galen obviously isn't a pilot and doesn't understand the concept of relative wind. Quade, Sluggo, Guru and others probably sighed or got a chuckle out of Galen's description of the high winds that night making the flare appear "fiery". Another inconsistency in Janet's account is the flare splitting into two fiery descending objects. If a burning flare broke in half during descent only one part would remain lit. The hostile abusive MIB (man in black) account makes no sense at all, ZERO. I doubt that it happened. Oh well, 90% of what she says is highly unlikely so why do I cling to the remaining 10%? Dunno. I guess I want someone to have seen something linked to Cooper's exit. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I've corresponded with Galen in the past and found him to be a sharp and open minded guy. I can't see him believing that part about "Janet" seeing Cooper on the 727 steps, which makes me wonder if there is something I am missing or some part of the story is being distorted. Still, Janet's alleged description of the flare following an arcing descent path caught my attention because it isn't intuitive and it is exactly what you'd see if a flare were tossed. You see it when skydivers exit with smoke. Galen isn't a dummy, far from it, so whats up with the Janet story? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo wrote; Jo, If you had managed the crime scene after the 727 landed Duane would have been identified as Cooper in a few days. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

It wasn't hard at all for a white guy to enter the US from Canada in 71 without going through immigration or customs. It doesn't make Peterson Cooper, but the lack of passport based US entry records does not mean that Peterson was in his mud hut in Nepal during Norjack. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

You know the FBI would really be screwing themselves expressing certainty about the tie DNA if in fact it wasnt Cooper's. Can you imagine how tough it would be to prosecute someone if that tie DNA ruled them out? A real Cooper could walk. Why are they so sure about the tie evidence? It's always a mistake to assume that the FBI is brain dead stupid. They have some faults but they also have some really smart skilled people. They must have some reason for being so confident about the tie evdence and revealing that position to the public. Sheridan Peterson interested the FBI enough to have them visit him and request a DNA sample which he voluntarily provided. Now Sheridan is very anti govt. and a strong advocate of Constitutional and civil rights. It surprised me that he just said OK when asked for a mouth swab without a warrant or really anything that legally compelled him to consent. If, however, he was Cooper and knew the tie wasn't his or didn't have his DNA on it, he'd be glad to provide such a sample. I have no proof that he was Cooper, but you couldn't have better DBC qualifications than Pete has: USMC combat vet USFS smoke jumper Boeing employee in tech pubs during 727 rollout Founder of Boeing skydive club Innovative and experienced skydiver Night jump experience Jumped in Viet Nam as a civilian Huge grudge against US Govt Looks a lot like sketch, right age and height. Alibi hard to disprove (living in a mud hut in rural Nepal) On the other side Pete has no criminal history and is a self described "Peacenik." Pete won't answer my emails. I'd like to take him for a jump, my treat, and just ask him about who knew what in SE Asia concerning the Air America 727 jumps and what he knows about ex USFS smoke jumpers working for the CIA in Nam doing covert airdrops. The FBI has already cleared him so he has little to worry about. I've always wondered why Ted Braden was released after being captured with desertion and criminal charges pending. There are no free passes. What did he trade for his release? They ALWAYS get something in exchange, often incriminating evidence about someone higher up the chain, but sometimes an agreement not to burn an informant or blow the cover on an ongoing undercover operation. No, I do not belive that the US Govt set up Norjack or had anything to do with it until after it happened. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I've been jumping since 1968 and never opened high intentionally until recently. Last year some friends and I who are into ham radio and skydiving started doing hop and pops from 14-18,000 feet and communicating with other hams during the long descent. Some hams don't believe it when you say "parachute mobile" after giving your callsign. Your signal can go hundreds of miles using a VHF walkie talkie from high altitudes. What surprised me is how much fun it is to just take a relaxed ride down. We arrange to be last out so we don't have a lot of other jumpers to worry about. The views are amazing and its a real change from freefall. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

All these DBC candidates who were CBers and all these DBC forum sleuths who are ham radio operators. I'll have to ask Snowmman what it all means. Did Barb Dayton have a CB? Gosset? Others? Now we have a tangible possibility that Duane, the Worlds Biggest Jock Carrier, actually comunicated with Jamie's Dad whose CB handle has yet to be published. I've always wondered why more crooks didnt use radio scanners. In my years of defending accused criminals I only had one defendant who was scanner savvy, but he was REALLY knowlegeable about police radio freqs and procedures. He even knew when shift changes occured and planned crimes accordingly. He had a Bearcat 210, one of the first synthesized scanners (didnt need custom crystals for every frequency you wanted to listen to). He was eventually jailed on a mortgage fraud conviction, something the scanner souldnt help him avoid. He never missed a payment on his loan, but it didnt matter, he lied on the application. The feds couldnt pin anything else on him but they knew he was a major bad guy and wanted him nailed, so they started looking at taxes, loans etc. Jamie, do you ever recall your Dad monitoring aircraft radio communications on one of his portable scanners? 10-4 Good Buddy. 73. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

What really frustrates me is that even after Snowmman locates some pictures and gives them to me I cannot find them on the Internet. I used reverse image search engines on a few of the above photos and came up empty. When he found Sheridan Peterson I was simultaneously looking for the same kind of guy, a person associated with Boeing, skydiver, smoke jumper etc and I found zilch. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I have been talking with old jumpers, riggers, etc and it's looking very unikley that the 1946 Amboy canopy was made from ripstop nylon material. Ripstop parachute material was developed around 1946 but didnt make it into production canopies for another few years. Most likely was nylon twill, which can fail catastrophically if a rip starts. No way would Cossey have a twill canopy in a bailout rig in 1971. I'll update when I get more info. canopy specs: http://www.pia.com/ecommerce_preview/specspreview/7020P.pdf smoke jumper canopy history: http://gacc.nifc.gov/oncc/logistics/crews/smokejumpers/about/fschutedevel.html 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Blizzard continues. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

more Snowfall. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Many of these are new to the forum, some are better copies of ones seen before that were scans of newspaper articles. Note the Palmer dig photo, backhoe in the background. You can clearly see that the trench was excavated by that machine not the hand shovel held by Palmers helper. Sluggo will like the map photos, but he may have seen them before. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I couldn't verify it if I wanted to. Private Messages are just that and the Moderation Staff doesn't have access to them. We do not now, nor have we ever, had the ability to read other people's Private Messages. This is why when you guys complain to us that somebody sent you something via PM, we can't really do anything about it because we have no first hand knowledge of it. If you do no wish to receive PMs from people, then simply turn it off. I actually believe Quade, although if you work out the game theory this would be a smart move to get us to PM freely with no caution at all. That would be the conspiratorial analysis and I just dont play in that sandbox. I ran a website for a while`that had PM features. I had every privilige available and I couldnt read PMs. Snowmman however, in all likelihood designed the chips that process all this web stuff, so who knows what he can see. Assange has nothing on Snow, except perhaps a few pissed off Swedish girls. The Nobel committee, after rejecting my suggestion about Snow, came back with a recommendation that I support the nomination of Quade for the Peace Prize. Snow captured the email and threatened to remotely enable code that would turn my Cypres 2 into an altitude triggered lithium battery incindiary device if I cooperated, so I backed off. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Safe wrote: Not quite sure I'd call it laughable, but it sure is unreliable. What does the /cliffs mean? Did you have any connection to the skunk-cam video? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jamie wrote: They (red "fusee" type road flares) would have been more of a hinderance than a help since they emit unidirectional light and would blind the user if held at arms length, plus they would be visible to searchers. They also drip molten sulphur slag and are hazardous to use. If dropped to illuminate a landing site they would almost certainly be extinguished on impact. Tossing a lighted one out just before jumping could serve to indicate an exit point to a ground based accomplice, but thats just speculation. Sheridan Peterson mentioned use of a flashlight to aid in a hypothetical Cooper night landing. He knows better. The ground closure (descent) rate under a C9 canopy and weak illumination of objects at a distance would make a flashlight pretty useless. You'd be better off letting your eyes adapt to the ambient light and using no illumination. What made you think the unfinished tatoo was connected with Thailand Jamie? The jpg photo wasnt very clear. Is there any lettering? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo wrote: Stop the irrational melodrama about lawsuits Jo. You are more likely to be hit by a meteor than you are to be a defendant in a civil suit based on forum postings. I've been a lawyer for 35 years. I don't chase ambulances or represent people in defamation suits, but I do know how those games are played. It's all about money and there is no money to be made suing Jo Weber for damages caused by her forum posts. No lawyer in the US would take that case on a contingency and a plaintiff would have to be a rich idiot to pay a big retainer and hourly rate. So relax Jo. Worry about something else. Snowmman found info on the same Ted Braden who Billy Waugh thought was Cooper. What makes you think otherwise? He was a deserter, a mercenary in Africa and a wanted fugitive. He had a motive (money) and the skills. Can you imagine any better training than night HALO jumps into an enemy jungle? Bruce had a wild theory that the CIA might have influenced a group of people to believe that they were Cooper. I discount all govt conspiracy theories which purport to explain Norjack, but how many people have told others they were DBC? Quite a few. How many bear a reasonable resemblance to the FBI sketch? Quite a few. Is this true in every high profile unsolved crimes where the criminal is admired by a portion of the population? I wish Snowmman were here. He'd have the stats and a few psych journal cites. Wish we knew more about the Cooper tie DNA. It apparently can rule out suspects as it did with Sheridan Cooper. Jamie, what kind of samples were given for the paternity testing? Mouth swab? Was it taken at the testing lab? How do you explain the Tena Bar money find? According to you your Dad successfully jumped and kept the loot possibly buying heavy equipment with it. Why would any loot be found on the banks of the Columbia? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jamie wrote: What do you base that on? Do you have a picture of the USAF Thailand command and control symbol you think was partially tattooed on your father's arm? This is all I could find: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/United_States_Air_Force_Command_and_Control_Badge.svg/286px-United_States_Air_Force_Command_and_Control_Badge.svg.png&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_Air_Force_Command_and_Control_Badge.svg&usg=__IQiAfEePlxlsFd4Ym8FX3EvazJU=&h=130&w=286&sz=42&hl=en&start=9&sig2=onYaxErlZaf-7njHu5D_cw&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=bZGizxWuIUj6uM:&tbnh=52&tbnw=115&prev=/images%3Fq%3DUSAF%2Bcommand%2Band%2Bcontrol%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7GGLL_en%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=brkGTZnpHIGisQP_wqWUBw How do you think Cooper knew that a 727 could be jumped? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jamie wrote: You are right about the 2009 date Jamie, but not about the rest. Don't feed Jo legal tips. Copyrighting posts here is absurd. If people do it wrong leave it be. The fear of lawsuits related to forum posts is also absurd. There is no money in it. Forget about it. Libel and slander all you want. Unless there are big bucks involved no lawyer will take it on a contingency and only a moron would pay by the hour. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Don't worry about being a non jumper Jamie, we all had that status at some prior time. You will get a warm welcome from most here if you are non dogmatic and are courteous. You seem to be both so welcome aboard. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I found the initial info about the Air America 727 jumps over Thailand. I corresponded with a Univ of Texas Professor who is an expert in SE Asia covert air ops history and he had a wealth of relevant info. Actually it was Jo who insisted that 727s were used to drop stuff during the Viet Nam war. I thought she was wrong, but I started looking. The forum is very incestuous and inward focused. When we make outside connections (like the UT professor) we open up new info channels. I am nearly certain that Cooper KNEW a 727 could be jumped. That's just logic. If it wasn't jumpable he was CERTAIN to get captured. Not even the cockpit crew knew that the 727 could be jumped. They had to have the airline contact Boeing to find out. As far as I can tell there are two obvious sources for that critical info about 727s being jumpable: the Air America jumps and the Boeing flight test info which was kept pretty tightly within Boeing, it isn't even in the tech manuals issued to 727 customers. Could a flight attendant have figured out a 727 was jumpable? Doubtful. Not even the NWA 727 flight engineer had that info. Someone serving in SE Asia during the war might have caught news of the Air America 727 jumps. Air traffic controllers get involved in jump testing if it takes place in or near controlled airspace. It takes up a lot of vertical airspace which must remain clear. Orange found fascinating (to me at least) info connecting USFS smoke jumpers with CIA covert air ops in SE Asia. Snowmman found TONS of stuff that was of interest including SOG HALO night jumps over enemy jungle territory in Nam, an SOG deserter named Ted Braden (who some SOG guys think was Cooper) and about a zillion other things. He got banned permanently for being rude. I am going to appeal for clemency in 2011. I tried to get him a Nobel Peace Prize to put Quade in the role of China, but the committee said that Snow was an arms supplier to both sides in many bloody conflicts and couldn't be seriously considered. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I do think military air traffic controllers in Viet Nam and surrounding areas might have heard about the 727 jumps, especially if controllers in Thailand were involved in the Air America jump tests. One part of Jamie's account which strains credibility is that an examination of his father' "papers" showed that around 1971 he came into several hundred thousand dollars. Stolen cash doesn't come with 1099 (tax) forms. People who possess stolen cash do their best to hide evidence of it's existence. The "papers" documenting stolen money need some explaining. Would the real DBC go to the Ariel Tavern Cooper event? Pretty stupid thing to do. Unlikely in my opinion. I've always wondered if Cooper was an alcoholic. Drinking before such a dangerous jump is nuts, you just degrade your reaction times and physical coordination. If you were addicted to alcohol and drank when stressed it might explain the pre jump Bourbon. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Quade wrote: The bearing uncertainty was way too large to be of practical use in exit spotting. I said that. Also the radio stuff is hypothetical fantasy. There is zero evidence that Cooper used radio gear. Still, I bet I could use that 1971 radio to get a very rough idea of position. I could tell if Ratazak had taken me offshore for example. I think Cooper just jumped and hoped for the best. The weather was not conducive to visual navigation. Dead reckoning by course and elapsed time was not likely as Cooper had no compass and only a very rough idea of ground speed. Jo, the back brace direction finder is completely impractical, don't waste time on this theory. CB walkie talkie could work to communicate with an accomplice, but there is zero evidence tha Cooper carried one. Your last post was unsettling. I hope the bad news is not about your health. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I did try it Quade and it works just OK, not precise enough for spotting but well enough to get rough bearings. The plane was a King Air. I used body fade to determine which side of the plane faced a Mt Diablo sited 144 MHz band repeater. My hand held radio has a variable attenuator on it, but you can do the same thing with a telescoping whip antenna. This is an estimate but I'd say my bearing uncertainty was about 70 degrees, but anything less than 180 is useful. Planes do, as you pointed out, have non uniform attenuation spheres, but it doesn't make DFing from the interior totally useless. This is all hypothetical, but if Cooper had a 1971 vintage radio Shack Sky Patrol tunable VHF transistor radio, he could have monitored all plane comms to the outside world and also got some very rough bearings on VOR transmitters using body fade techniques and variable attenuation by means of changing whip antenna length. The radio position info would have been very very approximate. I am sure you'd do better by looking for the glow of city lights and highways to figure out where you were. Here is an excerpt from a ham radio DF site: http://www.homingin.com/equipment.html 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Vanair wrote: Good for you. I am a lawyer, but not the type that makes money off accidents. I view things a lot like you do. Your brother is lucky to be alive. VERRRY close call. Really quick thinking on your part to eject him. Another few milliseconds and it would have been his body trying to enlarge the door frame of the 182 and take it all the way back to the tail. I'm sure you've seen the pictures of shredded Cessna fuselages where this happened. I often wonder if these MK 2000 burble fiires could have been prevented with some simple RC (resistor capacitor) integrators or timers in loop. I spoke with a guy from SSK who was very knowledgeable about the Cypres archetecture. He said there is no reliable way to immunize a simple switch fired device like the MK 2000 from burble fires. He said you need to look at historical data and trends and make a lot of 'if-then" logic decsions, and that means software. The Cypres knows you can't get from 14,000 ft to 700 ft in three seconds, but the MK 2000 system architecture can't figure that out. We are lucky ANYBODY wants to make AADs. I am sure they get sued all the time, even if the AAD didnt malfunction, and the market is really tiny. I like AADs. Nothing else is gonaa save you if you become incpacitated during freefall. It's an ironic tragedy when a malfunctioning AAD kills a jumper, but they have saved far more than they have harmed. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Relax Farflung. You didnt say Cooper had DME. You didnt say he had INS (inertial nav system) either and I can write about how heavy that stuff was in the days before ring laser gyros. Good points on the sectionals and the ever present threat of rising terrain. Sluggo educated me all about V 23 and the charts long long ago. I think I get it. Many non pilot jumpers like myself have never looked at an aviation chart. That is paperwork, stuff the cockpit apes do while they carry the masters of the universe to new heights. Farlung, you are an experienced pilot. What do you think Cooper's altitude and configuration demands indicated about his possible aviation conection? Pilot? Aircrew? Whuffo? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.