377

Caretaker Al writes: We are just curious commoners who dare to question members of the Cooper royal family. Why act superior when someone politely asks you for some objective evidence to back up your extraordinary story? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I think Howard has a photo of jumpers exiting an Whitwoth Argosy. I am a propliner nut. Decades ago I flew to Lancaster to see what derelicts were there. The C 97 was in good shape when I saw it. The engines had "inhibited" service tags on them. Maybe there was some thought of running them again. An old timer at the field said the CA ANG had ferried Angela Davis in that plane to a court appearance She was a black radical accused of participating in a muderous courtroom takeover and prisoner escape. Back then (late 70s?) there was a very rare acct there: Howard Hughes' Douglas A20 Havoc that was converted into a high speed exec plane. A Convair TF 102 was also on site, side by side 2 place trainer version of the F 102 delta wing fighter. Speaking of C 97s, famed aviator Clay Lacy is spending big bucks converting an ex fire tanker C 97 into a faux Boeing 377 Stratocruiser. He will have a tough time keeping 4 4360 28 cylinder radials serviceable. I had a friend who was an FE on USAF C 97Gs. He said they ate engines with alarming regularity. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Another proxy request for a response Georger: Georger comments on how the dredge spoils weren't moved more than 50 yards from the location in the picture, as best as I can understand georger. That's wrong, because there is a clay layer that Palmer says is from dredging, at the money find. So: we know for certain, that dredge spoils made it to the money find He implies that dredge spoils never made it to the money find location. Isn't that clearly wrong? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Makes sense to spend some more time on the Tena Bar money. It's real DBC evidence. Georger, can you respond to these questions please? were sites 3 and 4 for the dredging he's discussing, on the farm across the Columbia that was later the result of a lawsuit (because the sand affected it's farmability) Or on the beachfront? basically: the question is: sites 3 and 4, are they on the other side of the Columbia 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Welcome back Georger! What is your opinion about the various reports about currency shards being scattered around the money find area? Didnt the landowners report seeing the shards? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Come on Jo. Don't get too moralistic here. Duane was two of the three above. You didn't hate him. Watergate? Do you realize you've already linked Duane to RFK, JFK, MLK and the Bay of Pigs? What's next? The idea that Norjack was a CIA job is completely illogical. I don't buy it. Govt conspiracies are usually just convenient excuses for those who can't solve civilian crimes. Remember Freeway Rick? He was a drug dealer who spun some great tales of CIA involvement in smuging hard drugs into the US. He just won a trademark infringement ruling against a rapper using his moniker. The CIA allegations make for great reading, but that doesn't make them real. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Hey 377, I was going back and looking at old posts and missed this question you asked of me. Here is an article in the Capital Times, Madison Wisconsin about the find on the banks of the Mississippi River. The story is titled "Say Arrest Here Will Halt Huge Counterfeit Ring":https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.4&thid=12c5d53d31cb6378&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D6278d1bd1b%26view%3Datt%26th%3D12c5d53d31cb6378%26attid%3D0.4%26disp%3Dattd%26zw&sig=AHIEtbQ7aqshx7LrxnNqJQUZ_pphhVYqOQ it is continued on: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.3&thid=12c5d53d31cb6378&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D6278d1bd1b%26view%3Datt%26th%3D12c5d53d31cb6378%26attid%3D0.3%26disp%3Dattd%26zw&sig=AHIEtbQzd7bO-iif0EKV_93W1pfWiXW59g and the article that shows the tie between the two. https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.2&thid=12c5d53d31cb6378&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D6278d1bd1b%26view%3Datt%26th%3D12c5d53d31cb6378%26attid%3D0.2%26disp%3Dattd%26zw&sig=AHIEtbRsrw7F8avpw_X8-kBWtK8Itt_YuQ Vicki Vicki, You are a breath of fresh air. You claim a family member was possibly DBC but no drama, no dogma. Wish everyone with a claim to Cooperdom were more like you. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jamie, Might you have made a mistake on your timing calculations? See below: His uncle (mother's side?) joined the marines in 1955, after graduating from the same high school Jamie went to. 17 years later, he was home for Christmas. 1955 + 17 = 1972, the year after the hijacking. Not 1971 Ask Jamie to explain: The newspaper article he posted confirms the 1955 + 17 equation. If his uncle wasn't home before the 1971 hijacking, how did he discuss the 727 jump capability with his father? Also, the uncle's last name has 5 letters. i.e. it's not "Cooper". 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

This event took place in peacetime and involved a rescue of civilians. Hard to see how that would give him unpleasant flashbacks, but you know him and I don't. If you want to tread lightly how about just asking him if be was FE on an El Toro based KC 130 with a QB callsign in the 70s. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I hope you will reconsider Jamie. You know better than I do what his condition is, but I cant see how a dialogue about this would harm him physically. Hey, ask your uncle if he flew as FE on a USMC KC 130 (callsign prefix Quebec Bravo, suffix Zero One?)? It was based at El Toro MCAS right when he was there. I am sure about Quebec Bravo, less sure about zero one but it was two digits for sure. If so, ask him if he was flying on it when it was contacted by the fishing vessel Echo Belle on HF, relaying a mayday from a tuna boat in distress near Midway Island? He'd remember it if it hapened on his watch. The Herc did a phone patch through El Toro operations to USCG comm station Honolulu and got a successful rescue underway. I was the guy who contacted the USMC Herc. I heard a very weak MAYDAY. I got the position and vessel info. We were hundreds of miles away and couldnt raise anyone on any marine channel so I called blindly "MAYDAY RELAY" on a military HF channel (11179 KHz as I recall) and QB 01 answered. After we passed the essential info the KC 130 radio op told me they were tanking Marine helicopters off the coast of Orange County in CA. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Sorry Quade I don't. What's your theory of how the money got there? Do you agree with me that it tends to suggest that Cooper didnt survive the jump? Let Georger back on. He knows a lot about the Tena bar site. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

It has been pointed out to me that you don't have to discount Palmer's report to accept a dredge explanation for how the money made its way to Tena Bar. I posted: " Snow has some pretty good ideas about this, but it requires you to conclude that Palmer's analysis was incorrect." I was corrected: No it doesn't. You forget that Tena Bar was subject to 3 things 1) dredging 2) mechanical spreading by frontloader and maybe trucks 3) erosion and deposition effects by water. All Palmer said was that clay from dredging spoils was below the money. That doesn't preclude the money being moved from the bottom of the Columbia, to the shore, by the dredge. Why is that hard to understand? People seem to want to think of the dredging layer as one homogeneous mass/event, and that the money was clearly not in that event. There's no evidence that says that. Palmer's report, as far as we know, doesn't say that. It says the money was above a clay layer. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

She sure doesnt think so Jamie. Jo has endured far worse than has been thrown at you here. What's wrong with cutting a little extra slack to an older woman who is pursuing an obsession, that DW=DBC? She isn't vicious, just obsessed. Perhaps biased would be a less derogatory characterization. She is harmless and actually a nice person, ask Sluggo if you do not believe me. The forum can't by itself be biased, The posters can or the moderator can. Who are you pointing the finger at? Please tell us more about your relative and his involvement with 727 jump tests in Asia. No reason to keep it secret and it may be of great interest. In my opinion Cooper HAD to know that a 727 was jumpable. Not even the NWA 727 flight engineeer knew that it was. The crew had to contact Boeing tech ops to learn that it was possible to fly safely with the rear stairs deployed. How did Cooper know more about the plane than the cockpit crew did on this particular point? Could he have known about the Air America 727 drops? Please give us some info. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

CaretakerAl= Al Cooper? Or is it Bob from Anoka MN? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Man, if I didnt know better I'd say you manipulated the timing of those posts. Somewhere amidst all the noise, there lurks a signal. You can tune around, hear all the random static and smugly conclude that there is nothing worth searching for, then bingo, it pops out for the guy who kept tuning and listening. Ham radio operators like Snowmman, Guru and Georger know the feeling. SETI researchers hope for it. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

jamie wrote: Jamie, No judge would issue a search warrant based on what I've seen so far. The connections to evidence of a crime are waaaay too tenuous. A search warrant is obtained by means of an affidavit and the affidavit has to have some meat to it. Search warrants require probable cause, oath or affirmation, and a particular description of the place and object of the search to meet constitutional requirements. A judge may issue a search warrant only after reviewing a sworn statement of facts showing probable cause to search a particular place for particular items. The standard for probable cause is objective, meaning that there is sufficient information to persuade a reasonable person that a certain place contains evidence of a crime. (from a website on search warrants) 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

True, but you know what I meant. There is no bonanza here. At least not in my opinion. If I had been negotiating that contract Troy would have been hanging under a C9 round, but he'd probably have wanted a lot of extra pay for that. I guess if someone found a big stash of hot DBC twenties in reasonably good shape that would be a bonanza. The increased supply would depress the prices a bit. The skunk cam proves its out there to be found. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, My advice to you and everyone else is stop worrying about lawsuits, stalker charges, etc. It's all fantasy here. Even if someone were to slander me in a forum post, for example, what are the provable damages? Not NEARLY enough to justify any legal action, not even close and I can litigate almost for free. You aren't a stalker in my book. Jamie can simply ignore you if he chooses. A nuisance and a stalker are different animals. Let's keep lawyer crap out of this forum entirely. Jo you can take the first step by removing that obnoxious copyright notice from all your posts. Deal? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I am not expecting a direct eyewitness. It could be a landlord in Minneapolis or Montreal recalling a tenant who was never seen again after Nov 24th 1971 and left all their belongings in the apartment. The witness never thought about the DBC angle until he sees the TV show and makes the connection about the dates. It is a long shot but it sure as hell isnt impossible or silly. Many people know a little about DBC but have NO IDEA what the date of the crime was. Just getting that data out to a larger slice of the public is useful. Anyone who expects a financial reward from DB Cooper sleuthing or authoring is dreaming. The TIGHAR guys keep raising money for Amelia Erhart searches http://tighar.org/ but nobody has figured out how to get paid for looking for Cooper, except perhaps Larry Carr, and it's just his normal FBI salary. Even if all the DBC book projects Jo listed are published, I'll bet the vast majority of the copies end up in the $1.99 remainder bins at Borders in a short time. A feature movie done well could be a modest hit, but that's a huge long shot too. It is a fun hobby. That's all it is for me. Jo has made it her life's work and has spent a lot pursuing leads. The most I'll spend is maybe for a trip to Ariel if I can meet Amazon, Guru, Sluggo and if Snow will go. Maybe we can get Georger to come too and Jerry and Jo. Safe is another one I'd like to meet and many others who post here as well. If Orange agrees to show up, we'll all go I am sure. I have my NB8 and C9 all packed up. A clip on tie should be easy to find. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Blevins wrote: Dredging could account for it, but you have to disregard the conclusions of Palmer who was actually there and looked at the strata etc. Occam likes the dredge explanation. I am always wary of second guessing experts who had access to the scene at Tena bar. Palmer wasnt a complete dummy. I'd like to hear from others as to how Palmer might have reached an incorrect conclusion given the data he had. People have drowned in the Columbia and their bodies have never been found. It is something to ponder when thinking about Cooper. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

A great argument for doing nothing. Everything is too old, subject to flawed memory, and has been rehashed over and over. It's hopeless. I disagree. Cold cases get solved this way from time to time, even really old ones. Sure, the odds are long, but it is not hopeless and not silly. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

You CAN figure it out, but the area of uncertainty is HUGE. The USAF SAGE radar at McChord should have provided a very acurate track. Dunno what was done with that data. SAGE used networking to combine radar data from many remote sites, It was probably used to direct the F 106 interceptors that wrre sent hunting for the 727. The SAGE computer system had over 70,000!!! vacuum tubes. Maybe it was having problems that evening. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Is that true? With the advent of INS and Doppler Nav winds aloft could be accurately measured (well, actually "derived" since the wind isnt measured directly) in real time using simple computers. GPS has made it even easier. I am not a licensed pilot so forgive me if I mess up some of the air nav stuff. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Quade wrote about Snowmman: Yes, we do. A number of us have voiced that opinion. The people who post here form kind of a family. Dropzone.com is a home for this family. We have our black sheep and our unruly relatives, but they all get a seat at the table. If someone misbehaves there are consequences, but nobody should be disowned and shunned for life. You and Snow piss each other off, but thats no reason to ban him permanently. Telling us that if we want Snow as part of the family we all have to find a new house is unnecessarily harsh. It's a shame you esssentially said never ever ever, because it makes backing down (or moderating your stance as I'd prefer to describe it) difficult. The way I see it is that even if Snow gets serial banishments (like Georger) we get so much useful info in the period during which he participates. Civility is important to me too, I think you can see that in how I conduct myself here, but should this forum be more about manners than analysis and research? And a note to Jo, when I say Occam tells me live crooks do not abandon real money I am speaking of the money found at Tena bar, not some hypothetical larger sum allegedly buried in a milk can. Quade doesnt seem to agree with my idea that ALL DBC publications and media events potentially help solve the case by getting more people interested and aware. This isnt about alien abductions (which any rational person would regard as delusional), it's about a real unsolved crime. There was a real DBC, we just do not know who he was or what happened to him after he exited the 727. Someone watching the upcoming Myth-story Channel show might get a memory triggered, an abandoned car that got towed, a tenant who never showed up again and left all his belongings, etc. You don't have to buy into the KC=DBC formula. The biggest benefit comes from widely distributing info about the crime and hopefully stimulating additional interest in solving it. Blevins gets flamed pretty hard here considering that he has said over and over that KC=DBC is just a theory, that he has no absolute proof. I think he has presented a pretty convincing case that KC was up to something besides being a low paid NWA employee, but I see no connection to Norjack. The alleged panic of his friend about the tugboat logs do not put KC on the plane. I've spent a lot of time in commercial fishing. Logs stay with the vessel. Crew may keep their own personal logs but the vessel log (which includes crew lists) belongs to the owners and doesnt go with the captain. The Tena Bar money is very puzzling, but less so if you consider a dredging explanation. Snow has some pretty good ideas about this, but it requires you to conclude that Palmer's analysis was incorrect. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jamie wrote: Huh? Biased to enable... ? How can you be credibly bullied by an elderly lady with a keyboard? You can ignore or block PMs and nobody can force you to read their posts. Anyway, Jo is harmless so relax Jamie. I'm with 99 on the 727 jump video. I see careless editing and sound synching but no conspiracy to mislead. What's the big deal anyway? The important issue is that live jumps were made from a 727 prior to Norjack. Japan, Thailand, or ? What's the dufference as far as DBC is concerned? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.